The rough figure for deaths attributed each winter to common flu globally is ca. 600,000. The death toll due to COVID thus far is ca. 712,000. If you accept that in the UK and US, these figures have been grotesquely exaggerated, then one can assume that this may have happened elsewhere too. Why are these figure being over reported? Who knows, but it is happening. Does the global economy shutdown for common flu? No.

Almost all economies around the world have been buckling under the weight of government debt for many years, especially after 2008. Statistically, there is a recession every 10 years or so, so 2018 was when the next recession was due.... give or take. It was widely reported that the next recession after 2008 would be massive; taking into account the amount of government debt and stimulus injected by central banks. That, and the fact that interest rates were reduced to almost zero, gave central banks no ammunition to deal with another crash.

The US debt in 2008 was 10 trillion. In 2020 it is nearly 27 trillion. External debt is 125% of GDP.
Germany external debt is 165% of GDP, UK external debt is 283% of GDP, France 264%, Ireland 1025%, Spain 194% and so on. This level of debt can never be repaid.

Well, the financial crash is upon us. Conveniently, this is also running simultaneously with a pandemic, which as I stated, is being over hyped beyond any common sense. Coincidence?

Not by any means trying to convince you of anything, just stating facts and raising the question. Everyone will make up their own minds.

The Outlaw

How can any regulator consider 22 hour duty days safe. How much rest is rostered after these duties?

It is being run as a ULR with 2 complete crew (2CA & 2FO - sometimes even a 3rd FO). Must have 2 days off before and after such a duty.

No idea SOPS but nothing surprises me anymore about the way EK and the regulator do whatever they want. I can't say with 100% certainty if this is the case but its also not the first time I hear this.

Perhaps someone from EK can chime in and set the record straight?

Where on earth have you got these figures from? They seem well outside any statistical deviation for accurate. A quick search for the UK alone suggests figures between 85-102%. Even given a possible covid shrinkage of the economy of 30% it comes nowhere near the scale you've shown (and all of the other countries you list are similar).

As a Semi-Saffa you the kind of Saffa I like. Would of loved to have a beer with you.
Unfortunately most of our fellow countrymen still believe in the DXB dream or still want to come here for some strange reason.

Stick Flying, are you looking at public debt to gdp? I referenced external debt to gdp. These are very different. One quick source of reference would be US debt clock website. Wikipedia gives an even more damning percentage.

Guys are getting picked up for work at 12:15 and not landing till 13:30 the following day. They are doing 4 sectors with a final positioning short sector. It is crazy, we all know the kind of sleep we get in flight, especially when already stressed and in turbulent monsoon conditions in the summer.

For years they told us that they were short and the manning would improve and it would get better. Now they have Th opportunity and enough pilots they fire half of them and make the remaining guys fly dead tired and stressed. Safety first???

Legal is easy when the head of the company is the head of the controlling authority.

So then, for what reasons were you two guys in Dubai ?

I am a bit hazy about it now. But i thought, the ULR rules were for a single leg. Not a turnaround. How far can this go? I’m assuming people are scared now..if they say no all call in sick.. they are on the list to be dismissed.

You are quite correct. I mistakenly assumed national debt (which I knew weren't in the order of those magnitude's).

SOPS

Special approval at my operator was granted for turnaround ULR flights, that’s 4 pilots. Potential duty times of 21 hours. It’s tough and all 4 are walking zombies by the end

SOPS

Welcome to the wonderful world of the new variations. Basically if the FTLs don’t fit we will get a variation. FTLs are no longer limitations, they are ‘flexible’.....

Crews wont call sick because they worry about redundancy, they are stressed because they dont know if they are next to face redundancy, they wont take extra fuel or make an unpopular commercial decision due to fear of redundancy.

How long before this bites back and causes an incident?

so far I heard until now no other authority had either got a request or has approved such an operation - only GCAA
and still just a fraction of flights are done and the ASR keep flying like no tomorrow- absolute ridiculous place - until the unfortunate will hit them

It is interesting to see how the modern mind works. This thread is about the 1300 pilots and 5000 cabin crew that have lost their jobs
Fast forward a month, and, in that some thread, complaints that some poor little thing can't order his uber eats when away is posted.

Our profession is doomed.

Ha ha Waltair, very good. And so true!
Any fair paying passengers or journalists reading these forums?

so, I have been told.. at the end of the day it is all about reducing cost.. hence, the sick leave noted in the first/second round then performance. What is the next cost reduction coming?

1. - reduction from 3 children to 2 for schooling and medical?
2. - those who opted out? It has to be significantly more expensive than the company compounds nowadays?
3. - AGE? 55 or what number.. as we get older, we get more expensive both in salary and health benefits?

Where and how .. just living in fear.. for who and what will happen...

FTL is only a rule until it doesn’t suit!! The unmentionable got a deviation on 3 man ops years back when Libya went to s&$t and they had to get the gold out without laying over. Same goes for FDP “discretion”. Anywhere else in the developed world, Captains discretion is a seldom used choice made by the skipper.....in the ME it’s more assumed as a company tool to get you out of the proverbial commercial s&$t

Trumpistan, I like that.

BA, Aer Lingus, Aerolineas Argentinas (from AKL) and others, have operated long range Chinese turns carrying cargo, with duty times longer than EK. The key difference between EK and other operators seems to be that in a number of other cases, you had to volunteer for such onerous duties and I suspect that any FTL limits were perhaps more rigidly enforced as well. :=