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Anyone who was there care to let us know if it's true that a certain snr Mngr had a profanity laced outburst blaming pprune for recruitment issues?

I didn't know pprune fecked the rosters and leave and gave us the pay cuts. Can we sue?

They are consistently muppets these manager types.

Classic EK Management. Blame their own failures on others.

Good. I hope it gives the oxygen thief sleepless nights, just like we have to contend with.

To be fair on the management PPRUNE is certainly the reason that I didn't apply.

In my experience when management starts to cut pay and conditions, they never want to stop, it never turns around and improves. It also appears that as they now take turboprop Pilots that Emirates is no longer a career airline but more a first Jet Airline or first command; prior to the move into a career company.

The unmentionable on the other hand. I didn't apply because they were unmentionable on PPRUNE which didn't seem to be good.

At least in China conditions have pretty consistently been on the up. I now have a well paid and lovely commuting contract. There are cons though...initial training and medical primarily.

I agree with KP.
The reason I'm not even considering the dust bowl or EK is because of the cr@p about them I see on PPruNe. (Plus I don't want to be lynched... :mad:)

So actually, PPruNe is an excellent recruitment tool - it filters out all the sh*t airlines so pilots go elsewhere :D

Let me just add that the other reason I decided against Dubai was having worked for a previous company who believed Pilot fatigue was good business, I was never about to enter a "career airline" who followed that fatigue policy.

I hope after this year that there will have been a few changes in that regard!

I think the point, if it's true, is that said manager doesn't recognize the root cause of complaints as the reason for postings but rather - it's just negative threads for the sake of negative threads.

If that's the problem solving mentality of this particular Fleet Mgr, he is in WAY over his head.

Reap what you sow, you generally get the reputation you deserve

I didn't apply because I read how knackered you blokes are. I earn about 80% of what you guys earn but I have a slightly better roster and get my annual leave to spend with my family. I think my roster is pretty bad but it is definitely better than most of the EK examples I have read about. I figure I would have to spend the extra 20% salary on health issues in my later years anyway.....or maybe paying out the wife!

[QUOTE=kungfu panda;9616284]To be fair on the management PPRUNE is certainly the reason that I didn't apply.


I don't think Pprune is the reason.

I think you mean that you didn't apply because you read on Pprune what it is like to work at Emirates and live in UAE. Cold, hard facts and if management can't handle the truth then they should act to change it, rather than simply blaming people for writing about it.

I can never make the quote work either...

Which manager are we talking about? Pilot or admin staff?

I'm guessing EGT?

The new age restrictions on command (that was so intelligently dreamed up by the complete f#$cking morons higher up) may have something to do with it!

It has always seemed to me that the thoughts expressed on here, regardless of the airline concerned, are the sincerely believed opinions of those that take the time to post them. Therefore, those opinions are the truth as the writers see them.

In that case, if the TCAS II got upset, the need is to look inwardly (within the organisation) and change what is driving dissent. Or live with it. Either way, getting angry (or even) ain't a solution.

Well I'm an ex EK skipper and I'm not bitter about my time in the company BUT, I'm afraid your friends are lying if they're telling you that things are okay in the company. There are lots of problems, most can't be cured. But that's the way it is, the only way to change things for the better is to leave if you have that option. If not, try to make the most of what you have and don't get dragged down by the understandable negativity.

Of course it's all dependent on what you're used to and where you're from - if you joined EK as a young turboprop pilot after getting laid off from a small airline in the developing world, it's actually quite nice.

The volume of negative posts over the last two years says a lot. Also, flight time per month is pretty cut and dried ( unless you fudge the sign on time). Unless the WSJ and all the pprune posts are wrong then that is enough for me to cull an Airline from my list.
There are plenty of Airlines paying similar money that don't fudge the sign on time, who do less stick and duty hours, and who treat their pilots with less disrespect. It's a really good way to sort the bottom feeders from outfits that might be ok.
Also, pprune prompted me to get in touch with a friend of a friend who works there, apparently pprune is correct.

It was JA the muppet who stated such stuff during the last Pilot Forums and he said as well how proud he is about the latest bs recruitment videos.
Asked about the high number of resignations he of course gave no answer.
At least he enjoys reading PPRuNe with his costa, hopefully he is next on the his way out!

A lot of what's written on pprune is sh1t; however if you fling enough of it, at least some of it sticks. It's therefore a pretty powerful medium and a reasonable anti-marketing tool for the recruitment department. I like to believe that the manager in question was irate when it comes to the negativity displayed regarding EK and how detramental it is to pilot recruitment. Might actually be the fist time that he/she is right about something. Who knows?

To be replaced by whom? I'd put JA ahead of many other managers in HQ. Sure he has to ensure the company comes first but I'd venture he has done more for the pilot community than any other manger. Who would you rather in his place?

Actually the complaint was about some personal abuse some of our colleagues, who featured in the recent recruitment videos received. Which was quite personal and abusive. Those individuals who sent those messages, should hang their heads in shame!
I support that view, no matter that some of the content of the videos, lets face it was less that truthful.

Also, JA is a top bloke in my opinion, and replacement would be a lot worse. Be careful what you wish for Habibis...

SyB :zzz::zzz:

You "called a few friends" and "got the real story", hmm? And 90% of what you read on here was BS?

Well, I lived the real story, and I'm also a non-bitter ex-EK skipper (it's easy to be sanguine when you get nearly 3 weeks off at Christmas hahah!). But if you think that only 10% of what you read on PPRune about EK is accurate, I do hope you've applied and are successful.

You will receive a very interesting education. :ok:

It's interesting to note that there has been a slight change in tone and philosophy in how pilot's are being treated recently. There seems to be a fair bit less bullying and warning letters coming out of the bouncy castle in the last few months.
There can be little doubt this has probably been caused by a combination of factors including the departure of TCAS, a hemorrhaging of pilots, the changing of the guard to HD and JA, and finally the arrival of CM with his desire for culture change.
I have little doubt that FTL's will remain Targets and that regulations will like out contracts continue to have a bulldozer driven through them. However the slight change in culture is welcome, lets hope it keeps going in the right direction

If you are going to name and shame, at least target the right person. Here is what actually happened:

HD opened up the session congratulating a few "Ppruners" of successfully making no one apply anymore. He said pilots were like "Turkeys voting for Christmas" in that we were scaring pilots away, when what we really should to is encourage everyone to come, so the workload would lessen. He was also very upset about they way the four colleagues that featured in the videos had been treated on Pprune.

At this point I guess everyone was thinking the same: "It´s not becuase pilots are posting on Pprune no one is applying, it´s because how we are treated by the company".

A few minutes later a brave pilot said just this and was effectively shot down by HD (yes using profanity) and that was the end of that discussion.

JA on the other hand was a complete gentleman throughout the session.

Seaman,

I think JA would be an effective manager if he was given the latitude from above. We all know that AAR has to go if there is any hope for the future although I think its already too late.

If JA reads this forum then all he needs to do is go to the 4th floor and have a chat with CM explaining that simple fact!

CM has stated in an interview that in order for any re-structuring to be successful that ALL senior management has to be replaced. I think we will see this soon enough. I'm not sure why some posters seem to have "Stockholm syndrome" with respect to JA. Despite his potential he has still been part of the watch along with TCAS that has lead the company into dangerous waters. Its time for a new mind set from he top down.

Be careful of what your friends tell you too. I have been misled by people that I trusted in the past and came to regret listening to them: it's not that they're bad people, but unfortunately it is human nature to encourage others to go down the same path in order to make yourself feel better about your decisions. It's also human nature to ignore obvious truths when you see something that you think you want.

That is true but we as individuals all want different things out of life as well and what can be a bed of roses for one man, can also be a bed of thorns for his friend. Giving advice (such as career related) is highly subjective anyway.

I have been asked by a few former colleagues what life is like at EK as they were considering applying.

Wishing to remain objective in my reply, I simply emailed them my last 6 months rosters and factored flying hours for the rolling last 12 months.

None of them applied.

JA is a useless muppet, sorry I had my experiences with him.Ready to be fired!

idem: I showed them my first warning letter.
They paid the tap and never applied .....

JA has been fantastic to me when he didn't have to and shouldn't have needed to...

There are much better targets in HQ who deserve your frustration.

Just to echo about JA, all my dealings with him have been nothing but upfront and honest, yes theres an element of playing the game, he is after all ex Mil and as such knows a thing or two about when to speak or not in a hierarchy. HD on the other hand should be ashamed of himself if he resorted to profanity, paddy or not, its a matter of respect and perhaps shows his frustrations and true colours. I can well imagine he's frustrated given my quick little tally shows about 4230 or so of us active on the poorly disguised list, a number which has barely grown despite a concerted effort, all of which proves the narrative regarding attrition running at about 7-8%.

PPRUNE is a doubled edged sword, It was and has been EK's best recruiting tool, when things here were frankly great, the recruiters had to wade through piles of applications, able to pick and choose. This happy situation was assisted by this very forum.
Of course not everything on here is 100% accurate, everything in life has to be seen through an individual's perspective.
Now, let us suppose that the conditions were miraculously to jump back say 9 years? Would the posters on here talk about their 78 hrs per month, their unlimited days off, the purchasing power of their salary, the amount of energy they all had being able to recover fully?
Of course we would and it would save EK a few million into the bargain.
So 9th floor the choice, to quote Our Cilla, is yours!:ok:

From my dealings with everyone on the third floor for the last 11 years, I would have to say all have been above board and extremely helpful. But my expectations are low.

On the other hand, what has changed in the last 6 to seven years.....nothing for the better when it comes to flight time, days off, bidding/rostering, factoring, no credit for ground duties or leave, and MONEY. Fatiguing rosters, month after month after month. Families have become used to being a single parent household. And that habibis is where the rub lies. I don't care if I'm treated this way or that way, I want some pay rise and some friggin' time off, and credit for leave and ground duties......did I mention MONEY?

The relation of pilots with their airline has always been like a see saw. It's almost impossible to balance it, we know, it will always fall on one side. The opposite side will always try to lift it towards them again, like offer and demand.
Such almost symbiotic relationship is healthy because it keeps both sides on their toes, meaning the entity remains competitive.
The environment in the ME however gives too much weight to one side and almost none to the other. Managers like AAR and his cronies in conjunction with a laughable "law" weigh way too much to give any chance for the other side to balance the see saw. Furthermore any stupid remark, like HD's adds undue weight.
Once there is no chance, no weight heavy enough to lift the see saw to the other side, even by a teeny weeny inch, any effort from this side will be spent somewhere else. At least there will be no futile effort to find more buddies to try futile weightlifting.

Whinging about that without taking off some weight shows the real colours of management: The colours of ignorance and incompetence.

Nice analysis, Glo. The issue, using your analogy, is that here isn't too much weight on one side, but rather there is NO weight on the opposite side. How many times have we heard, "if you don't like it....leave"? Not as much as in the past, however, experience, with regard to this operation, is leaving. Just check the staff numbers of the freshly made LTCs th next time you happen to be in the training college on the 1st floor.

FDM and CDM are going to be merged. Half the jobs will be lost. Redundancy. Still no big losses from the Costa Crew. At least not yet...There won't be much left for the clowns to manage at this rate. Let us nominate some Departments that would become more effective with "redundancies" My favourite would be those overworked guys in Accommodation.....

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