And managers fleet :ugh:

Looks like Fat Pat will be on the way back to SA.....

Sad that EK professional pilots taking such pleasure in people losing their jobs.

In order to lose your job you have to do your job first.

fatbus: I totally agree
remember the times under SMF and LL, where employees were treated with respect, attitude, at those times it was a pleasure to work for the company because you were basically part of it. Sadly that has all changed with the arrival of muppets like TCAS, AAR and the rest of the intimidating managers.

Nakita nailed it!

Not sad at all to see SOME of these managers lose their jobs, they were part of the attitude and degenerative force that has brought this company where it is today.

The rot has to go in the company if there is any hope for the future.

Its business.

Fatty. I am very sad to see job losses for competent and hard working people. The rot started on the 9th floor and filtered down. Arrogant and incompetent sh1ts like (pick the name) using only their bonus as a guide have brought the company to this point. We need a mass cull of Brits and Indians and the star on the treetop of AAR. Many really good people, well versed in their jobs have left; their loss does not bode well for the future.

Yeah you're right: more racism, that's what's needed.....

Playing victims? But never crossed mind while abusing both experienced pilots and young flight attendants for years.

777boy now adding racist to bitter and twisted. Let it go!

Someone puts Brits and Indians (and we are talking about mafia here, not about nationalities) on the same side in one sentence, gives them the same characteristics and wishes them the same, and you call it racism? :) Back to school,vfnext, you haven't learned what actual racism is.

How is that racism?
British management are widely responsible for destroying Cathay and some English managers have done pretty good job of destroying the working environment here too.

Exactly. I am referring to the two Mafias. Emirates. English managed Indian run and the employees suffer. I am no racist. I also mentioned AAR. Emirati. Nothing against anyone because of passport or religion. Brits at EK ultra destructive. Look at Cathay, GF and now EK.

Nikita you know nothing of me or what I know about racism. I'm more aware than most of what it is and the effects it can have. Go back to the high n mighty insulated box you crawled out of.

Actually I think Nikita knows a little bit about racism as well.

What nationalities built up EK, Cathay,GF?.I think you will find many different ones.
Foreign nationals were replaced in Cathay and GF. Both are having problems.
Its very difficult for small countries companies to have quality management without outside help.
In the UAE wasta rules. The locals want the management positions but most do not have experience.
You need people coming from quality successful airlines.

So what nationality would create the utopian existence you seek? Which nationality on this earth is perfection personified? German? Lufthansa not so hot at the moment, Pilots striking. Italian perhaps? Yeah cos Alitalia is the perfect model of how to run an airline. French? Yep all is rosy in Air France isn't it. Australian? QANTAS are actually doing okay, oh wait they're Irish.
What needs to occur here is a change of PERSONALITY not nationality. This may come as a huge surprise to you but each nation on this planet is made up of the good the bad and the ugly and the current incumbent has taken this place in the wrong direction for sure. His nationality though has nothing to do with it - his predecessor was by all accounts exactly the person that is required right now. Was he not the SAME nationality?
We can all gripe but how about we leave the tiny minded casual racism out of it eh? And actually use some of the intelligence we're supposed to have to formulate well rounded, intelligent arguments? Right now the EK pilot community is coming across as a bunch of brain dead numpties.

Best example of local wasta is AAR and CPA , no clue about anything!
Oh I forgot ADCPA Mr. Landing and all the other local muppets.

Sunbird, Cloud Bunny

Do you think most FC/CC expats would have joined if this was run solely by UAE management and Indian supervisors. Never. They might as well join other ME or Sub Continent airlines.

Young women from western hemisphere were lured showing western management and turned them over to Indians. That is the most disgraceful act any westerner would do to their own, unless Brits think Eastern Europeans are beneath them.

Also when you say successful airlines you are not taking about Caledonian, Sri Lankan, Gulf Air and BA. Are you?

When there was enough money to throw around they wasted, now don't know how to run this company.

The nationality of the people running this place never entered my head, would never even pass by as a thought in my tiny pea sized brain. It's irrelevant.
I was selected by a Brit, a Canadian, a Brazilian, a Kiwi and a UAE National. Who cares?
Do I think the Brits think Eastern Europeans are beneath them - without a shadow of a doubt a xenophobic, irrational proportion of them surely do, in the same way as many other people would view other nationalities. These people have even tinier pea sized brains than me. The fact that some of them have risen to prominence is a problem.
Would I have joined EK if it was solely run by locals? Of course. If the contract is right, the lifestyle is right, the company makes money and is economically stable I don't give a rats arse where the person/people at the top are born. You can't condem an entire race of people based on the actions of a few. There's enough of that **** going on in the world right now on a much larger and more frightening scale.
I'm not getting into a slanging match over this, suffice to say that I genuinely don't care where the next CEO of this place is born, the personality on the other hand is critical to how this place shapes up.

When it comes to crime, people from the same country tend to group in mafias. We are talking about nationalities from the criminology (mafia) perspective. Nothing new there. There's Japanese mafia, Italian mafia, Serbian mafia (Pink Panthers are all Serbs although they cannot be classified as mafia), Albanian mafia, British mafia, Indian mafia etc. Don't misuse serious terms and people who are actual victims of racism and discrimination to prove your point. Find another argument. This one is false.

It doesn't help that there is a PPRuNe thread about how to leave EK with over 500 posts and a third of a million hits. Last time I looked, the header advert was for EK recruitment. You couldn't maker that up!

There is currently a pilot shortage and everyone is either struggling - or will be soon, to fill those pilot seats. The industry is making us more mobile with the gradual demise of seniority and common licences and we won't hang around with a sub-standard employer with poor Ts and Cs and poor employment conditions. EK is one of the company's which has created this situation and they are reaping what they sowed.

What I know of EK to be true mostly comes from people I know who work there (or used to work there more to the point) and - and if I was ever considering working in the ME, they wouldn't be my choice. Pilots talk to each other and we know where the best jobs are.

Sealer,

From your posts, you work for Virgin Australia, you've applied to Qantas, and so the question is, if -

.....why are you in the Middle East Forum commenting on things you know nothing about?

:confused:

[p.s 90% of the comments posted here have an accuracy level of 80%. Take that from someone who is actually here. :ok:]

One could possibly argue, many of the people who end up working in the sandpit couldn't quite make it back in their home countries. Quite possibly through no fault of their own, but it is abundantly clear quite a lot got promoted way above their abilities, once they arrived in the GCC.

They say failed airline supervisors end up as airline managers, and that failed managers end up as directors, in hot and sandy places. I've seen quite a lot of that.

Its Merry Christmas old fella. I hope you are having a good one.

Sealear - a general observation - reading previous posts by an author is a good idea because it helps establish the credibility, accuracy, and tone of the poster.

I didn't apply thanks to pprune. Most pilots know about EKs poor reputation these days. "Long haul Ryanair" is what several people have described it to me as being like.

Never listen to a friend either...they won't admit making the worse decision of their life.

It wAs very good on the 330 15 years ago. Recommended mates to come until we got shafted by AAR in 08? ( 92 hrs) after that I said I could not bring myself to recommend to anyone! Pprune is not the problem EK is.

'09, in '08 we got a 12% pay raise and 14 week profit share.

"Ultra long/Long/Medium/Short haul Ryanair" would be a more appropriate description.

And therein lies one of the biggest issues at EK, on the 777 fleet at least. We fly a hybrid mix of every kind of operation on a scale unlike anything that's ever been attempted elsewhere. Add into the mix the regular +95hr rosters averaging 8-9 days off a month and you can see how unsustainable the whole thing is. You're constantly pushed to the limit with frequent shifts from day to night flying and vice verse. There is simply not enough recovery time between trips resulting in a permanent state of tiredness or even fatigue which cannot be good for you, no matter how hard you try to maintain some kind of healthy lifestyle outside of work.

It's no wonder people are put off from applying when they hear this kind of thing. Problem is, the truth hurts! I most certainly could not honestly recommend anyone I know to join with things as they are at the moment. And while the fact they're trying to blame current recruitment issues on what is written here is undoubtedly pathetic, it is very much in keeping with what you'd expect from management in this part of the world. One of the reasons we're unlikely to see things change.

Unfortunately as much as we bleat, it does seem to be sustainable, for the airline at least. Its been going on for many years now and yet the flights still get flown.

Back in the mid 00s even when oil prices were high, the company was making money hand over fist, the pilots were happy, flights were full and it was the place to come. A few years later and some dubious decisions and we have come 180 degree's. Oil is low, profits are disappearing faster than an ice cream in mid summer, no one is happy and most are looking for alternatives and flights are often half full.

My roster just under 100hrs for Jan, similar for Nov and Dec. It is too much

Flyaway777 has hit the nail on the head!

The 777 fleet is doing every type of operation known to aviation and is doing it at a "low cost" pace, with inadequate rest in between flights, nowhere else is this being done and it's not sustainable for the troops or their families.

The mixture of earlies, nights, turnarounds longhaul and ULR in no particular order and without any set rules is punishing to the human body, no amount of cash thrown at me is enough to trade my health, quality of life and family.

Bingo: It's called slavery 2.0
Who cares about your health?Stop complaining and keep on rowing!
It's getting worth.

No offence dude, but British management is the cancer of T&Cs. Everywhere they set foot in management, T&Cs go ridiculously South...

Eduelp
Not trying to excuse "British current management practice" but would suggest what you have is MBA practice garnered from a certain number of US management schools. Look at US companies outside the tech area(cuddly feely !) and indeed airlines, and you see exactly the same thing as you are experiencing in the race to the bottom. I have never had the time in any organisation to actually do an MBA, but surprisingly make them (companies I have worked for) and me a lot of money, usually when the MBA Harvard yard graduate blinks !


Happy New Year
Mr Mac

So many people will keep on writing on PPrune

According to you the Irish have a lot to answer for too. And indeed pilots themselves.

Maybe it's just you?

No offence...

Yes well, under American management over the road a 737 with complete loss of life crashes
with apparently no responsibility admitted and no lessons learnt. National stereotyping is pathetic and lazy. No offence 'dude'.

anyhoooo, fleet growth by just 6 aeroplanes last year (36 new, 29 retired). Over 500 new joiners, and rosters are still busy. Yep...no retention problem at all.

Same dog, different collar. I englobe all the region under the british term.

Glad to see you had the time to go through my posts. The pilots in my old airline did have a lot to do with the problem, as most of pilots of the above nationalities also lack the guts to take any sort of action and just complain.

Much happier nowadays at a place where we are respected as professional in a uk-free management.

So in short, no... it was not me.