Good news for those flying on turbo props or light jets. Emirates lowered their requirements for first officers.

As I see on the line the majority are unhappy with the lifestyle, not the benefits. So maybe instead of complaining about the amount of hours we fly, the leave we don't get, the difficulties with swapping and the timeframe for promotions. Maybe, just maybe, we should try to get more people to Emirates. Maybe I'm thinking too easy, but doesn't it need more pilots to join to have the above changed for the better in the first place?

Info
 

What requirements are we now talking now?

Do you have more details?

Tx

ATPL & English level 4 or above. Check EK website

What no hours requirements at all?! Wow!

Don,
EK has been short pilots for 8 years. They stopped hiring for several of them. They continue to announce new flights when they don't have enough pilots for the one's they have now. If they were so worried about the EK pilots health, they wouldn't have been running 8 days off a month on the 330 guys for the last 3-4 years. No, improving conditions is too hard. Getting Dash-8 guys to apply for a wide body gig is easy. Like taking candy from a baby. Congrats to all EK captains, you have just been promoted to TRI's. :D

The requirement is an ATPL means 1500 hours.

What is worthy of note is that the company can now conduct ZFT training for individuals with considerably less experience than those holding a newly issued ATPL and 1500 hours.

Should there not be enough interest with the requirements as they are now, then expect them to be lowered further.

Well it is not going to happen for me. 4000tt with 3600 hours on small jet but still flying with cpl frozen atpl.

Perhaps it is a bless if i read all the comments.

@120feet

If nobody joins it won't get any better for sure isn't it?! If (a big IF) management wants to change things, they need pilots joining first before anything else. Without them expect things to get even worse.

Although some people like to think it is, flying a wide body is not rocket science. I have confidence in our recruitment team, they have done a pretty good job until now.

From Pistons directly on to B777/A380!!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Clearly they recognize there's a problem but yet still refuse to do anything to keep the current work force in place...it really is disappointing. While I know I shouldn't be surprised, I just can't help but be surprised by their ability to remain totally arrogant even in the situation they currently find themselves in.

While this won't stop the attrition, they definitely will have a massive surplus of applicants now. There are plenty of unhappy turbo prop guys just waiting for a chance to get into the jet 'game'.

Did wash up only few days ago, from HR new joiners ATPL + 500hrs.
The 500 hrs are anything at and above Twin Otter.
This IS the new standard.

will be interesting when the press finds out

Is there an age limit?

And then what GoreTex? The skies are full with pilots with even less hours and only holding a CPL, even on the wide bodies....

Don,

the FAA increased the hours required to fly a commercial plane

So a licence holder that can speak reasonable English. That is as low as a requirement can go. I've heard tell of a time previously when entry requirements were that low, perhaps mid-80s? What happens when the US opens up to expats?

I'd certainly rather fly beside a turboprop pilot with 1500 hours than a cadet with 500. Not that the cadets are bad.

From what I hear habibis, lots of headless chickens on the upper floors of the bouncy castle, all blaming each other for the current shambles.

Apparently, the Turboprop guys thing has been vetoed by the bossman. Its 777 DECs back on, this will be fun to watch. Thinking is that the 777 is a more "attractive" type than the A330 is. Some of these people just don't get it, DEC's = floodgates open for 777 F/Os leaving.

Also, was told current attrition rate is near 11%, however anyone over 50 leaving is regarded as Retiring, so its actually in Emirates speak only 3.8% :=:=

Interesting times ahead, what with more flights, less pilots, more aircraft, less pilots.

SyB :zzz:

GoreTex, if I'm not mistaken the FAA requires 1500hrs. Thats exactly what an ATPL is. 1500hrs including 500hrs multi pilot. So I don't see Emirates making the papers on this subject other then a big advertisement announcing their roadshows.

Don,
other airlines have a training department but EK doesn't, EK has a checking department

Pretty sure the jet hour requirement still applies regardless of what's on the website....

Gore tex, do you put in feedback after recurrent or read the news letter. Big strides have be make to change things from checking to training and feed back refects that.

Wrong..CX has a checking department..must be same management..welcome to the new socialist experiment..!!

By training, if you mean paint by numbers, how to fly airplanes, then you might be correct. Never heard so much auto-verbalization of nonsense dressed up as SOP's.

It's a logical evolution.

You need to lower the newbee's requirements, because you need to keep the same big experience gradient between the actual TRI/E's and the trainees.

I acknowledge that there was a strive to change from numb checking to training, but the bad influence from fleet and upper management successfully eroded what little progress had been achieved.

Just read the ASR summary and extrapolate it with what will be trained shortly! :uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:

This will at least allow experienced military turbo prop guys to get a gig....but there goes the supply and demand leverage.

Jebus, speaking to a couple of fellow ex Lyneham inmates, nearly all of them would opt for VS or BA through the various ex service pilot schemes on offer. Jetpoo are also offering openings for TP guys who have done their EASA conversion.
This is all being targeted at the likes of the 20 something year old TP pilots in First world countries who feel stuck, and want a jet job.
Bandaid at best given that there are relatively few large TP's in service.

MM agree however it might come as a surprise for you to know this but not all large military TP crews are British. Apparently other nations have acquired the hardware and skills....even the Americans and dare I say it but those annoying colonial types as well.

We should all see this as a clear indication that EK management have zero interest in changing terms and conditions in a positive direction, the only reason they can't attract suitable jet time candidates is because of the package, turboprop guys are stuck in a rut as low cost carriers will not take them and they will leap from high places at a chance like this, and the package will look to them like cream with lots of strawberries on top. And that is how it will stay.

And what for next year, 26 new 380's arriving, what then, just who is going to operate these aircraft, is there enough 330/340 captains to fill these ranks, leaving another hole to fill, more low time guys filling position that they just don't have the experience to handle.

What is needed is a pay increase upwards of 20/30% this and only this wil start to change the tide, anything else offered at the moment is bull:mad:, this and only this will make quality candidates look again in the direction on EK, then as the numbers increase the other terms will start to be honoured.

How on earth the company expects large numbers of turbo prop guys to get through sim training let alone the interview process when a large number of high jet time guys have failed in the past is beyond me, no doubt our standards in the sim will be lowered along with the experience requirements.

I would not fancy being a trainer with all this going on, good luck guys you are going to need it, remember that 2 is now a 3, or else!!!!

This is a sad day


They have a fixed package and they want to run an airline around it

Seats will be filled .. No doubt

I wanted to throw in a few words about the subject but what's the point ?

This is clearly a slap in the face to the current workforce

They are trying to fill seats, no matter what. The 9th floor culture won't allow to accept something is wrong. That would involve loss of face, and taking responsibility, something the culture does not allow.

A few floors down, they can not admit there is a problem, because they will lose their enormous bonuses. They just sit and watch, and count the money.

The wheels have well and truely fallen off.

Emirates wont be the first or last airline to reduce requirements. Just look at their upcoming orders! I think mgmt has decided they'd better train their own well for the long run, than have a hiring spree of pilots in the global market in haste later on.

From my knowledge, their National cadet program enrollment every year has been increasing but we must also note that more and and more pilots are considering other expanding airlines like Qatar and Etihad.

With all due respect bia botal, and I don't disagree that you guys deserve a pay rise and I wish you all the very best with getting one ...

... but if you seriously believe that a good young turboprop captain, with a few years command time in a Dash-8 or ATR-72, who's been trained by a top shelf first world operator like Qantaslink or Wideroe or Flybe or Air New Zealand, is somehow not a "quality candidate", or is going to require standards to be lowered in order to occupy the right seat of an EK jet, then you sir are completely full of :mad: .

I'd argue that hiring those kind of guys, will probably turn out to be a very good thing for the overall airline operating standard, as long they pick them correctly. It's a smart and long overdue move by the airline.

Why have a large number of high time jet guys failed? Were they weak or is the training particularly tough.

Like I said before Luke, some people in EK like to believe that flying a wide body is rocket science

Props are not the issue
 

There appears to be some confusion about what the guys are concerned about here. Flying the airplane is a very very small part of the job. At EK it's about 1% of the time. So it is not that they hate TP guys nor think them inferior pilots. The same concern would be levied against a Red Bull air racer. The simple fact is most props are limited to a very tiny region of the globe, and hence so is your TP experience. Yes, there are exceptions. I am saying most. Now, you are a captain on your 7th day in a row, flying a trip that has been reduced from three pilots to two pilots. (Due to lack of crew.) You have a TP guy with 2000 hours sitting next to you over deepest darkest Africa, in an airplane that may be 100 times heavier, fly 3 times faster and take 10 times the runway to stop then what he just stepped out of, and facing weather he has never seen. As a TP he will have very little to offer except SOP regurgitation, which will get you through 95% of it. But when it counts, really counts, and things are going pear shaped, there are safety issues that need to be addressed. The TP pilot may very well may end up adding stress to the problem. The concerns have very little to do with flying the airplane it has to do with experience. This is not an offense, many of us started there, myself included. However, I can tell you there is a legitimate concern. Now, if EK wants to do 50 sectors with the TP guys and let them fill their boots, then no worries. Or hey, better the T&C and keep the guys you have. All this IMHO.....


Years ago a CRJ 70 was not good enough but a CRJ 90 was. Same plane. The things EK does rarely make sense.

You could make the exact same argument against narrow body jet drivers.

120,


How is that any different to that same Captain sitting next to a easy/ryan/wiz/enter your own P2F FO now?


The turbo prop fella might know how to actually fly. The turbo prop fella is use to flying in the weather.


Other airlines have hired Turbo prop onto jets for years. I cant see the issue. Interesting to see that some that refer to this as being a lowering of requirements were themselves were only hired after the requirements were lowered last time. But that is somehow different I guess. Just as those that joined post 2004 can whine about flying 90hrs per month, having leave held back, and DECs. These things didn't count when they were happening to other people here, when/before you joined, but is important now as it happens to you.


I just hope I don't have to sit next to a whining ex turbo prop FO complaining that his 2 year promised command isn't happening, as I do with those fine, hair gelled, 4000hr sky gods now.

Is it rude to say we told you so?

I have to agree with Don Corleone, flying an Airliner is not rocket science, I get your point africa flying,massive storms, crossing the pond, etc, again not rocket science maybe a good challenge and a steep learning curve, but not hard to learn. Cheers.

Then leave if you have to. Do not sit and complain, fly, and again come over here and again complain about this or that. Find a job back in your country that suits your lifestyle and leave. Instead if I find all of you who have been complaining still at EK months after, you have no one to blame except yourself for the dilapidated position.

There are enough pilots to fill into all of our (everyone who has been whining) boots so let's not go down that route. Don't like something, stop, find something that suits you and move on.