No Baron, they do not.

Along with a great many other things!

BlueBaron:

I personally don't think you've done enough research but all the best to you anyways.

I'd ask this of you; just come back to this forum, this particular thread and give us your thoughts then... Don't be surprised if there are a few " we tried to tell you"

You sincerely don't have any Idea what you're getting into with the EK machine.... None of us here could have even imagined how poor the conditions, rosters and general treatment of pilots could get..... But they have!

Through a colleague, I've heard that a Deputy Chief advises that 95 hours per month WILL BE THE NEW NORM! Why? Not enough pilots. Why? A number have taken heed of these discussions.

Hope to hear from you here on this thread 6-9 months after starting at EK.

Kap

Baron, you are contracted to fly however many hours are on your roster. And if you seriously think you can survive on 8 days off, flying long haul, back of the clock, or constant night turns, you are seriously deluded.

As has been posted here several times now, there are 50 pilots off long term sick, with serious health problems, of course you may choose to believe the rostering has nothing to do with it.

And, if you dare make a mistake, that 'damages' the brand, just wait and see how that works out for you. Just ask the poor guys in Lagos.

But, you go ahead, don't say you were not warned.

Now I see Baron, you are a CX person. And you think going to Dubai will solve your problems?

I'm going to stop now, back to a glass of wine.

88 hrs a month includes bunk time towards pay and OT, but bunk time not counted towards FTL 28 days or 12 months 100/900 hrs. Meydan south newer one slightly bigger gardens which come bear. Most pilots getting more than 8 days off.

Fleet type makes the differance.
 

Fatbus is right. I just took the average of my last 24 months and came up with 8.2 off days a month. Sorry SOP, you are stretching the truth just a bit. If you get on the 777 you will get more. Initially on the 330 you will also but not much. Most FO's I fly with appear to be around 9 days off a month. I have never had bunk time. My EK pajamas are in the wrapper stuffed up in the closet somewhere. If you get on the 330 fleet there are no bunks. But you will get a chance every few months to get 3 hours rest in a seat that reclines a bit further than the cockpit seats on our 9.5 hour flight to western Africa. In the first 9 days next month I have 1 day off. All turns. Most arriving back in Dubai between 0400-0900. But on the upside I have 3 two day off blocks where normally it's just 2. It's like a little present from scheduling. Yeah..........

SOPS, where are you now after EK?

Pulk,

Are you serious? You obviously haven't read anything on this site regarding life in the ME. He is HOME....and it doesn't really matter where that is...its not the UAE which was NOT his home.

SOPS.. has left EK and the UAE...he has actually stated that in almost every post over the last 6 months or so. He now does 1 hour trips with a dog for an FO and has switched fuels from JET A to CHARDON A, and answers to a new DFO that shares the same name as the lady on his marriage certificate.

Might be a good idea to read the countless 1000's of posts in PPRUNE regarding problems faced by those working in the ME.

There is no hope for a lot of pilots. What can they possibly be thinking or are they not even thinking?
There are countless jobs out there in the world. Get the good ones and if you can not get hired at the good ones come (only at the last resort) to the middle east but don't go bitching on these sites.
Sept can't come fast enough.

Brilliant! SOP... a breath of fresh air... keep it coming we need it!:ok:

Very amusing, the Outlaw. More like that.

SOPS

Despite leaving, you obviously still have your finger on the pulse. So please, tell me, what has happened to the 'poor guys in Lagos' after their little taxi incident?

Harry

The Outlaw:

Dude Relax!

I just asked where is he nowadays. You don't have to over think and over-react. Chill out bro. ;)

I Second Harry !!!

What happened to them?

As a matter of curiosity: Don't you guys see no chance of improvement in the foreseeable future ?

One thing I can assure, they will get a huge amount of applications from brazilian's ATR and Ejet drivers.

Just a matter of time until these revised requirements spread around and the influx of applications start.

Applying is one thing. Still have to pass the sim and language tests.

A Psychology Professor talking on Sky News this evening happend to mention about the new requirements for pilots to be mentally screened for unusual mental behaviours.

Would the new hire recruits be automatically deemed to have failed this test, by a normal recruiter, in the know, if these candidates applied here to the pit despite all the sensible advice given here?

Welcome to the place where you have to ask to pee and even before you go to briefing be ready to do the full drugs and alcohol testing process, just to earn a buck!

New hires from the lighter aircraft world are welcome I say, let them come and share the pain if it helps the poor sods here doing 1.5 times reasonable amount of work. (You get rostered for sim support here when you are at maximum hours and can't fly).

(edit) The suggestion from the professor is to look at your work colleagues around you and help the company and the medical teams to work out if someones personality is changeable. The way the system works here, you rarely bump into any colleagues at all when going to work and then only on 4 days a year in class, and that's only about 10 at a time, good to see the system works.

J

I thought that was the case with all airlines these days.

Sure...

But there are a lot of pilots from Azul Airlines with pretty good english skills. And I bet that you don't need to have adamantium balls to make thru the simulator.

There are some good professionals down here, despite the disbelief of many.

By the way, I don't fly for Azul and due to family issues I just had to turn down a job in one of the ME3.

So, If I was able to succeed, why my fellow colleagues wouldn't ?

Anyway, I wish all the best for those who are willing to accept this quest.

Nuffsaid b737...

Just wondering if they would look at someone without a full atpl?...(frozen)

So what is competitive now at emirates?

Hi FMSPEED...

Unfortunately I don't think they will do that :bored: !

If I'm not wrong, that is some kind of GCAA rule ! The same applies for the other airline a few miles down the road.

:(

The poor guys in Lagos each got a final warning that lasts 2 years. So thats 2 years without a bonus, without any sort of pay review, and for the FO no chance at an upgrade for the foreseeable future.

TIMING, yes, that was my information as well.

And Outlaw, small point of order. All my 1 hour trips are done with 2 FOs. We are a three crew operation at all times.

Just back from a 1 hour turn around, might open a bottle of red��

This final warning letter thing is something really complicated.

How can a pilot have peace of mind to exercise his duties knowing that he is literally one step away from being fired ?

This is something very serious folks ! You can easily make mistakes when under such amount of pressure.

Probably being fired wouldn't create as much stress as that IMHO.

This thread is running too fast :D :D

You are correct 737. With a final warning letter on your file, you are one " mistake" away from unemployment. How much pressure do you think that must put on people every time they go to work?

But that is the kind of atmosphere that enimates from the flight department in EK.

And some of those in charge of handing out warning letters, do it with relish, they live for it.

Yet, people still want to sign up. Each to their own I suppose.

Sleep walking... From an accountants point of view, STC and TCAS are worthy of sainthood...

By the time the chickens come home to roost STC and TCAS will be long gone- they hope. Tarnished legacy? As long as they retire with enough in the bank to live happily ever after I really don't think they care.

Don't judge anyone for their decision to apply and maybe join Emirates. Everyone has a different situation in life, and for some, despite the very accurate comments posted here, unfortunately EK may be their best option.

Those who are considering joining have a read of, and then ponder the following. Every EK pilot understands this only too well, and if you apply and join, you will gain a new appreciation for the words you probably don't have now. This more than anything is probably why a large number of pilots and cabin crew are planning their exit or have already left:

"The key question to keep asking is, Are you spending your time on the right things? Because time is all you have." Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture.

Hi guys.

I have read a lot about EK and the problems but as KEEPITREALOK said some of us are in worse places and with worse conditions, so EK is better and it will be an improvement.

Also if pilot sin EK are flying so much, it should be great for you if many of us join the airline, that will help to reduce the workload, or it should be.

The future for airlines is becoming complicated because the pilot shortage is a fact and airlines around the world will have serious issues and this is a clear movement to start preparing for that.

Read the article from another thread.
Are you ready to fly? Middle East needs 60,000 new pilots, says Boeing | The National

I read some comments about pilots joining with lower minimums, and I am not agree, if the training is good pilots from turboprops and light jets can perform as good as any other pilots.

Mig you are wrong are many aspects.
The company has been working us to the max for the last 12-18 months and the captains for the last 4 years. So no matter how many pilots leave or how short we are the company will only hire enough pilots to max out our rosters. They are very skilled at this.
The Traininng Dept is NOT good. It is getting better but they are there to check you and have trouble fixing problems. I can't imagine how they are going to deal with 1500 hrs TP pilots.
If you think you are in a bad place now wait to join Emirates. You correctly pointed out that's there is a world wide pilot shortage. So why join EK when there are so many better places in the world to fly for?

Why does a sane person start taking drugs. There is the curiosity syndrome, but more often the prospect and false promise of feeling better with it is the main drive. Most people know that drugs are a bad fix for problems, however they can build up to the point of troubling your vision beyond the fear of addiction and self destruction. You just need something strong rigt now, you firmly believe that you will be strong enough to get away of it once you feel better.
We know the outcome of 99% of cases and even though these people often give testimony of their plight, saying they wish they'd never started, there will always be newbees who think their situation justifies the experiment and that they will be strong enough to deal with it. The others just exagerate and are too weak for this world.

EK seems to be like a drug to pilots out there who think their situation is so bad, that the big shiny jets and the fantastic provided company accomodation justify trying crap T&Cs for a while. They think they will be able to deal with no time for personal life and constant burn-out syndrome in the desert with virtually no support but constant bombardment of threats and dumb messages.

I admire you guys, Houston misses out on real astronauts!

Well get ready for it as they will start the TP guys in January. If you want to know what it's like in EK now....well in addition to the "random" drug and alcohol testing, they are now testing for anti depressants! What's that tell you.

How does Dubai work? They want to put up the price of fuel here, so are increasing it in stages. I think I am right in saying they will over the next year or so put it up by 280%. If they did that straight away then there would be too much backlash from the local populous. So their idea is to put it up monthly and review every month. For August it's 24% with a review next month. It will go up and up. People will complain and absorb it. VAT, someone said 7%, but I think it's going to be more like 20%. The country is broke, the money and income from oil is not there anymore as the oil price is bottoming out and is said to stay that way for a long time. So it's panic time with any measure possible to survive.

So how does Emirates work....exactly the same way. It chops away at the terms and conditions little by little. Someone wrote on here a catalog of what he has lost since he joined. It's actually quite staggering and very sad. I don't actually know why EK make you sign a contract as its a worthless piece of paper that is changed weekly.

One of my colleagues always told me to pay attention to the emails posted that change the Employee handbook. I do now and am shocked to see what is being changed in the background that most of us don't pay attention to. Seen the leave entry now? Makes for interesting reading that doesn't really manifest itself until someone finally spots it. They have moved the threshold for leave to fit the fiscal year now. They also mention that carrying forward leave is now only valid for one year after. It then disappears and you will not be paid. Look also at their wording for when you can take leave. Well basically they tell you!

I am staggered at what has been taken away from us over the past 10 years. It started even way before then if you ask the senior guys. There are many to blame but the same names always are manifesting themselves. I am hearing they are soon to announce the retirement or departure of the poison dwarf. Can't wait. But I'm sure in true style we will get someone equally as unpalatable.

Like the fuel and VAT in Dubai, EK will continue to just chip away. No one will accept responsibility for the mass exedos so a scapegoat will be found. The problem in their eyes will have then been fixed.

When we start the career of aviation, most want the biggest, fastest and shiniest jet. That's the carrot or the goal. That's what EK are monopolising on right now. The wise realise that enough is enough. The inexperienced have a morbid curiosity about them. 1500 hours and an ATPL...in truth who wouldn't be tempted. It's really like being shot at for the first time. Hugely exciting with massive kicks of adrenalin, like a drug. Is it really that frightening or bad. The first time is a wow factor unsurpassed by anything you would ever have experienced. Then the realisation kicks in that perhaps the veterans were telling the truth. It's bloody frightening and has perhaps not been the best idea.

For a TP guy to join, well done you have achieved a major step and secured your dream. Your family are hugely proud of what you have achieved. A year down the line when you see more inside the workings of what you have signed up for, you realise what all the moaning, whinging and complaining was about. You then join the ranks on here and put your two cents in.

The company are wanting to survive and make lots of money. They wheels have fallen off to coin a much said phrase. They will now try anything to survive, and I mean anything. It will get a lot worse believe me......

Excellent post Uplink. However, people won't listen to you, they won't realise you were correct until about a year or 2 after they arrive.

Well, if i read all this, my mind says not to be obstinate and listen for once. And yes having no atpl licence is a blessing now i guess. How can people live like this in such a slavery country? I am not going to leave my current job for a job like this. I still want to have a life aside aviation, which i more or less have. I hope for you guys to get out asap and going back HOME and enjoy other things of life.

Good luck. :ok:

Neptune,
The airbus guys started flying max hours in 2003 when the 345 arrived. This is also when we received a major pay cut, when they lowered the productivity threshold, but stopped giving credit for anything not related to sitting in the seat. We hired DEC back then as well. They started screwing with our leave then as well. Two of my mates were forced to move from their villas back then. So has anything really changed?
So the advice you are giving, is the same advice we have been giving from back then. But you still joined. It's only now that it's happening to you that you pay attention. Pretty much sums up shiny jet syndrome.

Don when I joined I did do due dillegence contrary to what you wrote. At the time 777 FOs were "only" flying 65-77 hours a month spending on who you talked to and no one was not getting their leave. If they weren't I didn't talk to them and it wasn't posted on pprune that I saw.
I was looking in 2011-12 not 2003. That is my reference. Was it bad when i was looking, maybe. But it was probably worse for the captains than the FOs.
The difference is when i don't like something I do something about it. We all know Emirates is not a good airline and it is only going to get worse for sure. So why stick around?
Was EK as bad 3 yrs ago as it is today? If it only is gong to get worse at Emirates and if tomorrow is going to be worse than today why stick around or why join? There are so many good options out there.

Cry us all a river, don. Be happy that "your" issues are now everyone's.

Yay! Right?

But the difference is, of the people who joined in spite of your infinite wisdom in the early 2000's, many still did very well. Long hours on your fleet, forced relocations may have been around - but so were quick commands and decent rosters back then and for quite a few years after that.

Now? Not so much. Talk to anyone and the honeymoon period is shorter and shorter - FO resignations outpacing captains for a start. 2015 is not 2003, now matter how you want to spin it for your "I told you so" moment. Those joining now are joining a completely different animal.

Pilot Workload at Emirates Under Question - WSJ

According to current and former pilots, Emirates, the world’s largest airline by international traffic, underreports time on duty to the aviation regulator in the United Arab Emirates, meaning pilots at times exceed daily-duty limits that exist to protect their health and the safety of flights.


i think its safe to say hopefully something will be done about this...tough times right now but i think the future is bright, at least its out there now!