Hi...I applied to EK late last month. All I have received after submitting the application was that,they will get back to me within six weeks. If not then they will not cocider me this time. I have an ICAO ATPL and Level 6 ELP,total 2400 Hrs with with 2100 on ATR and safety and audit experience,which is ongoing.

Is some one able to shed some light.

So? You applied. They told you to wait. After 6 week they will either call you or not. Took me two year to get their attention 14 years ago. Be patient because without it you won't last in the ME

Well said Payscale.

Because there is lower requirements those new guys with not a large experience believe that it is open doors for everyone,that everything is due to them before they have proved anything!and this is valid nit only here but generally speaking

WB1900...quoting..."Do you really believe that 16hr straight from one continent to another, whilst sleeping half the time gives you judgment experience.
Lets say it that way. What the wide body pilot does is not more than an enhancement from previous skills"

Try an engine failure or a smoke around 80°N during 207mn ETOPS in poor winter conditions and then you'll tell me about so called judgement experience!

Each job has its own threats and difficulties for sure,but don't minimize one to greet the other.

The current turbo - prop pilot love - in is aviation's version of political correctness. Suddenly, as though a revelation, there is a whole breed of highly proficient tp pilots just waiting in the wings to be whisked into the front seat of a global 777 operation and all will be expert and brilliant. I have no view on tp pilots good and or bad but I will say that flying a tp from Cardiff to Dublin is not the same as operating a wide body halfway around the world. The amazing handling skills of this neglected group notwithstanding, the operation and management of a long haul wide body are more complex and challenging. As from a previous post we hear that a Q400 climbs at F16 rates but this is manifestly nonsense and all part of the talking up of the tp argument designed to fit the agenda. Of course a tp pilot of average ability can fly a 777 but as we all know it is not as straightforward as advertised; certainly a novel approach to training will be required. Interesting times.

Will all sky gods please state how they developed their god like status when slagging off those they see as beneath them!

Well, vital actions followed by qrh would be a start. Weather, well that should have been determined as suitable IAW your ops manuals and updated as such on route. Location, well if you have the ETOPs approval, risk assessment has been carried out by the manufacturer and the approval bodies concerned. Contingency actions in your operating airspace should be briefed for such flights.If you don't like flying so far north then don't join a long haul company.

By the way, I'm not a TP driver, but I have actually flown to northern Siberia in winter as well as extensively in Russia, Europe and Middle East as well as North Atlantic crossing. So can I be deemed suitable or is my aircraft too light to transition to wide bodies.

But the real issue is.......quite frankly they are not paying enough to attract pilots to join, peoples buckets are full and so are leaving and new aircraft are arriving. An unsustainable situation that the managers are gonna have to face up to or risk having their position terminated when the ruling powers go for scalps.
Jeez how many ryanair guys work there and they only had Europe experience and has that brought the airline to its knees?

Focus people, the problem is money, the problem is rostered hours, the problem is leave and the problem is quality of life. Let the company recruit and train, that's their job not yours!

Very funny, indeed.

But y'know what? WE have to fly what they recruit and train, not the company. Hence the interest and disrespect for what you just stated. :ugh:

On another note: I do respect your experience, just as much as i do for Ryan Air pilots who do well, so you could be very much suitable for EK, maybe not your attitude though.

Our recurrent syllabus recently provides time for FO enhancement modules, with line orientated scenarios with them running the whole show. Most of them come out of these experiences a little more humble than you seem to be .....

We sky gods may have developed our god like status by experience and training first .... and only then focusing on the problem called money.

The same in any company mate, I've flown with some high hour utter liabilities! Hours or type doesn't provide any guarantees.

What the attitude that understands that if I as a pilot want to set recruitment minimums, that's the tail wagging the dog. If you want to run things your way, start your own airline. A bit like the DEC who brings his old company SOPs with him because he doesn't like the new ones. You have to deal with the realities.

Maybe you have the problem attitude not me. The recruitment world is changing from the past 8 years. It's not a pilot shortage, more a constriction of supply and any company will do what they need to do to keep the schedule running. I remember the days airlines were going to flying clubs and offering to pay for everything to get people in the right seat.

If your in the training dept and don't like the thought of training these guys, resign your training post. If the recruits don't make the grade out on the line then ASR them. If your not captain enough to be the captain, well that's a choice you need to address.

Harsh words maybe, but your a pawn in this game not a King. Take the recruits, swallow the additional workload in the short term and hope for more realistic and tolerable rosters in the long term.

Oh buy the way Glo, what types and which areas did you operate in prior to Emirates? Just asking, I want to be a sky god one day........not!

GloFish® fluorescent fish are born brilliant! oh it seems you had genetic help to be brilliant!

Well said Glofish. Reduced requirements for pilot recruitment is a means of opening the pool of potential new-hires and ergo not having to pay more for experienced pilots ( they've dried up anyway). The inevitable sarcastic responses are predictable ('sky gods etc.') but the fact remains that the operational challenges on a global operation are more complex. With maturity some of the contributors to these threads will realise this; having excellent handling skills when landing your dash 8 / ATR etc into Jersey while laudable but are only a small part of the picture. Your anecdote reference complicated, yet realistic LOE / LOS scenarios and subsequently chastened crew members is apposite. As a member of the pc pilot community myself I would never disparage a fellow group of professionals, including the C150 flying instructor but nevertheless one has to be realistic.

Olster, I said

I didn't specifically call anyone a skygod but

Glofish said

So I guess HE thinks he is.

You said

So what is a company supposed to do? Pay more to the existing guys and still be short?

Airlines have always had a training element, Easyjet put 200hrs guys in the seat just as monarch BA etc, I don't like it if there are more qualified applicants although I've not applied myself. The CTC model has taken over in the UK and cadets have always featured in Europe also.

What is important is QOL money and health. The proffesion attitude to flight operations should be a given if you chose this career.

Have I applied, no. There just isn't enough financial incentive yet.

EK hasn't hired experienced guys for ages. There was this same gum gnashing when it dropped to 2000hrs jet, and just as many threads for 2000hr wiz kids swimming in the holding pool wondering when their time would come.

Same same but different?

Deep and fast

You include sarcasm (skygods) in your contribution but have a hard time discerning it in others. Psychiatrists have a term for that.

By the way, you might not know: In most respectable airlines recruitment and training is partly done by active pilots. At EK they are actually fighting the erosion of quality by not letting any self proclaimed "proffesional" pass, and they will have to withstand pressure from the company.
Thus my disdain for your sloppy comment.

Stay where you are, both sides will be better off, because EK will not up the antes to your heights.

Glofish, psychiatrists have many terms. I could say you have egocentrism!

But as always, true dianosis requires evaluation but a clinical professional.

I said
Which you didn't seem to like much.
And you said
So really, what's your problem? Find the guys who are interested and evaluate. As for the evaluators, if you can't take the heat then don't be on the recruitment panel. I have seen nowhere that the actual level of ability is being reduced, only the experience level. Only those able to pass the assessment get in! What the hell do you expect the company to do?
Are the whole BA 777 fleet pilots gonna apply just to help out your crewing issue? No.

So get real, take the best of the available pool of qualified pilots and train the bits that are currently missing from their repertoire.

As for me, maybe I will join, be fun to goad you on a 17 hour Panama :E

It's easy to find posts every year from 2005 and onwards describing EK:s applicants as "being scraped from the bottom of the barrel" or "third world applicants".

Where are they today?

Sitting much further up the barrel?

I love it when guys like Deep and fast charge into a topic with zero time in a company to tell all the guys who've been there a decade or more, how it is. And then accuse them of egocentrism. Wow.

Thanks Deep and fast, your contributions are very valuable. Please continue to enlighten us, while we wait for EK to raise the remuneration to a level that will "entice" you. Then, at last, we could gain more gems of knowledge from your obviously experienced self, firsthand.

Until then, we wait anxiously with anticipation.

So the pilots determining recruitment policy in Emirates is the way forward? You guys are funny.

Reality, you need bums on seats. I know enough guys working there who tell me so they can have easier rosters and get leave.

It's not just about enticement for me, you want narrow and wide body jet guys? As for me, I have no interest in BSJs, just cash for retirement. And I'm better off where I am at the moment. But the world of work is a fluid situation.

Oh and the ppruners as always don't always prove to be a representative scientific sample group. Some say Harry the cod has Stockholm syndrome. The probable reality is, it seems to work for him and that's the real trick in this industry. Sorry to drag you into the topic skycod.

It doesn't matter how many suckers, er New Hires come to Emirates the company will only hire enough pilots to allow for us to fly 92 hrs a month with 30 days leave a year.
The reason we are so short now is because of so many pilots that have left the company. Probably approaching 150 pilots this year so the company will only try to hire 200 or so pilots. 150 to make up for the attrition and 50 or so to fill the expansion.
It is very telling that the company can't even hire 200 pilots this year. Hence the lower requir,nets and standards. If Emirates paid us what other airlines make the company probably wouldn't have any problem filling the ranks.
Does anyone think that is gong to happen here? Me neither.

It seems that they are throwing a wider fish net out there.

A380 NTR FO:

ICAO ATPL

ELP 4

AviationJobs.Me Flight Crew: A380 Non Type Rated First Officers Emirates UAE

Link on above website takes you directly to the emirates careers site.

Reminds me of an Eagle's song...

Flamingo - the job posting date says Jan. 2014. If that's correct this is hardly timely news.

What are the age limits for entry as an FO?

Thanks. Manu'

Deep and fast.

While what you say is undoubtedly accurate, I don't think you'll have much luck convincing the incumbent egos in EK of the reality of the situation. To point out that company is quite capable of finding suitable candidates by lowering some of the arbitrary thresholds somehow diminishes their fragile self-esteem and the status of their position.

Unfortunately, a lot of the established captains in EK are some way removed from having their feet on the ground probably as a result of living the Dubai dream and having successfully navigated their way through a pedantic regime into the LHS. Humility is often not the product of those 2 factors. Add in the fact that many are trapped by the cash, fed up with the roster and in denial about their health and it's no surprise that they don't like being told that they are not universally revered after all.

I see that chip on the shoulder didn't reduce after you left Adolf. I hope you find an airline that suits eventually.

Capt. Flamingo...
 

...is the song the "The Last Resort"? That HAS been rolling around in my head the last few months. "I don't know why".....

The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.

:ok:

And the tool just keeps going, offering cheap platitudes as a substitute for experience.

Feel free to pick up on each and everyone of my statements re Emirates and put forwards an intelligent and reasoned arguement to back up your point of view because at the moment I only hear gum knashing as another poster said.

Air Berlin apparently looking to get rid of "up to 200" flight deck positions. More cannon fodder for the carriers in the Middle East.

CP

Let's see how many of them will move to their largest shareholder in AUH

Deep and Fast

Pilots who are part of the recruitment team do not determine the policy. That's done by HR. What they do determine, however, is the quality and standard of the candidate who makes it through to interview. It's a combined effort from actual line guys, long term sick pilots who've been assessed for their suitability for recruitment and TRE's who play an integral part in the simulator assessment. Experience levels for applicants has indeed been reduced but the standards, we are led to believe, will remain the same.

From my own involvement with the recruitment team, I have no reason to believe that goal is not being achieved, despite the increasing pressure from above. The pilots and examiners know only too well that the consequences of not retaining those minimum standards would impact on all throughout the training process and also on the line. It would be a false economy if an increasing number of people were failing after joining.

Personally, I'm not disagreeing with a lot of the points you make, just the way you make them.

Harry

Great and constructive response HTC

What gets me is the constant denigration of pilots that don't meet the historic profile of Emirates recruited pilots. There really are some very good guys out there.

Recruiting minimums have always been fluid but some find it difficult to accept. I'm glad to hear that standards are being upheld.

Americans and Canadians have a different aviation industry and a greater GA community and have some guys who think you should be 10000 hours and 50 years old before a command, totally different in Europe. It's all about perspective.

Not dissing North Americans before someone takes offence!

So tell us Harry. How is it now that during the sim evaluation the standard is, is this candidate trainable not whether or not he performed the manuveur correctly? If that is not lowering standards, I don't know what is. A major change in the evaluation of candidates. :confused:

It would be interesting to get to know what is their definition of "trainable". At the end of the day it all comes down to training, training, training and more training. And there are my doubts if EK is able to handle this.

TU

Nothing really changed from simulator assessments 15 years ago. Departure, handling, circuit or two and engine failure. Check that the candidate has the basic flying skills and uses CRM management tools. Not looking for a polished performance, just one that improves throughout the 30-40 minute session. Many have failed the sim which is why it's done early on in the interview process. There is a minimum criteria for passing......and it's not just if they have a heart beat and don't crash!

Some recent feedback from our own 'handling' sims proves that you don't need to be Chuck Yeager to work here!

Harry

No argument there Harry. But you are probably aware that the assessment has changed officially. Maybe, in some ways more realistic, but the requirements in assessing are being changed and being "lowered".

Personally, I would like to think that any "professional" pilot would have the natural or learnt capability to fly a basic sim detail in any commercial cockpit. I know that people do not understand the aircraft that they are completing the sim ride/test/assessment on BUT it is the eye - scan rate - brain processing procedure - hand to control input - desired outcome that matters. No matter what aircraft one has flown as a "professional" pilot, manipulating any aircrafts controls to achieve a safe and desired output should be the basic fundamentals of any pilot.

An engine failure in any twin requires the same procedure of hand eye coordination. Scan rates and VOR tracking is the same in any aircraft. Circuits would need to be briefed and understood I would agree as jets fly wider patterns than props, but being flexible and adapting to changes is part of a pilots specialised abilities.

I had never flown any of the EK fleet types before I did the EK sim assessment and yet it just required concentration and adaptation of known skills to achieve success. To me, I for one am glad that recruiting standards are not lowered as it should be expected that any pilot flying a commercial aircraft today should be able to perform these manoeuvres. Emirates is not training "new pilots", it wants to train commercial pilots to fly a new type and I believe that if a pilot displays "minimum acceptable commercial piloting skills" then they have a chance to further develop those onto other aircraft types.

Good luck to those who make it through, to those who didn't sorry but in fairness it was in your hands and no one else's.

Jack

I agree
 

With you totally
The point I like to bring up
Of course the q400 does not fly like a f16
I am sorry for that because the post was not meant to be out at that time

What I like to say is only these guys diserve a fair chance to continue in their career and should not be turned for reasons like
Aircraft not big enough, not fast enough , not heavy enough etc.
They do their job as professional as all the big jet flyers, and yes they usually have more options in alternates around
Yes at N83 the clocks are ticking a little different, totally agree but these are things everybody with the right attitude can easily learn. That is just adopting to the environment.
And disagree to say it needs much more, it only needs a different point to start handling the issue. Which everybody can learn, but you can't learn it if you are humiliated because your career as a pilot started as TP pilot, done by pilots who simple had luck to bypass TP flying

Conclusion is that everybody started somewhere to build his experience, and a pilot is not better or worse just because he started on a different side of it
Thanks

That's just it. EK used to be a job you finally achieved after putting in your time in puddle jumping, then regional then narrow body. EK is now no longer a place pilots seek as their career goal but more for a stepping stone to a better place. The SIM is proof of this. 25 minutes performing turns and climbs VS the 2 hour full monty at Korean. EK is no longer interested in attracting the best just attracting someone who can legally fill the seat.


CR

I agree. If you would read thoroughly what has been said (my rant about reading comprehension ....), then you would understand that we do not disagree with you in principle.

What bothers us, is what CR states:

It shows that "deserving a fair chance" can have two faces:
Assessing the right guys irrespective of provenience vs. having to fill seats quickly.

It sort of raises doubts about the reassurance from the training department that they do not lower standards. Two faces again:
Giving the required higher amount of training vs. having to fill the seats quickly and cheaply.

If that is true there will be a very large price to pay. With the number of flights EK flies they won't be able to avoid having their recruitment standards tested in the real world.