eldeer5
 

Folks wouldn't comprehend #37 (lateral thinking), so I will be direct. Your last post,#43, is very leading and your reasons are clear but my question is; Wouldn't you miss the challenge of taking the EK project (Hello Tomorrow) to another level to pitch the big D & others for that matter?
I'm only asking to understand and not to judge ;)

EK has since had a couple of female drivers so the reverse in the quote could/would hold :O

Are you in charge of writing the OM-As by any chance?

"Does that mean any US pilot that stays at Emirates is stupid?"

Fatbus why would you stay at Emirates when you can go to a major airline?
93 hours a month vs 75 hours with good unions, good ATC and a government agency that looks out for the pilots plus numerous other benefits in leaving.
So I wouldn't call someone stupid for staying but I would ask for their reasons for a better understanding and in case I was missing something.

Maybe there is some American pilots that could respond to that. I'll just keep my mouth shut on this one.

I would have a hard time understanding any American under 45 YO not taking or shooting for a position with DL, AA or UA. Hell I know 3 year FO at jetBlue who will make $155k this year. I've seen his pay slip. He works his tail off by choice but isn't working any harder than a EK pilot. When you see some guys getting wide body slots in year two and the upgrades continue to come quicker and quicker it really is unprecedented for the last 30 years.

You throw in a union, FAA, great ATC, buffalo wings, NCAA football and never hearing mam/sir ever again and the decision obvious.

Lastly just look at the profit share these guys are getting. Astounding.

Wait a minute Emirates got 3 weeks bonus for 93 hours a month while Delta got $40,000 for 75 hours a month.
My brother is a 777 FO at Delta and makes almost $200 an hour. That is considerably more than me and I am a 777 captain. When you include everything like work rules and all the goodies that goes with a major airline every American should not even be considering leaving. They should have their applications in and be ready to go.
What are you going to accomplish by staying at emirates? An early funeral?

I'll take it in on - on Fattys behalf.

Returning is not on for everyone, the biggest discriminator amongst my LHS mid 40's colleagues is age. Just don't want to uproot Fam from a good school as they are closer to college than the 30's FOs kids or single dudes. We also enjoy our life and friends here.

My buddy made $202k (green slippin') last year as a 7 yr FO MD88 ATL at Big D. He's in his 30s and cannot even comprehend some of the stuff I tell him - steely wheelies, monthly hours, Flt ops culture etc.

That said he understands that wide body command is perhaps more valuable than we give it credit. Times change quickly for the worse as we have seen over the years. This is perhaps the most dangerous geo-politically it has felt since 9-11. They will change again. Nigeria just declared a state of emergency - Ebola could get VERY nasty. I remember SARS, wasn't pretty and it directly affected my career.

For my generation, not near as many going back as alluded to. We know the devil we're dealing with, kids wife content, money going in the bank - to the young whippers like Eldee...
A no brainer.

f.

Good post f. Look at a position at a legacy as a career. Look at a position at EK as a means to an end. I would say age 45 is the max for returning. That is still a 20 year career. Not all Americans have the option of getting hired at the legacies right now. Might be a drink drive conviction years ago, no college degree (why a reqmnt, who knows), or other skeletons. Or some May have ego issues after being a captain on a 777 or 330/340 and couldn't sit in the right seat of a narrow body.

I will say this, if nonAmerican pilots had the option to return to their home countries and fly for the likes of the US legacies, with the future that appears to await them, I doubt many would remain in DXB. Tax issues and security would be just about the only reasons. Just my opinion.

While it is true that not too many Americans have left Emirates in the numbers the company is fearing I say give it time. As I said in a previous post my old company has over 200 Emirates pilots that have applied to join a US major. They only started hiring in Feb so let's just wait and see how many pilots have left Emirates this time next year.
Even if "only" half leave that would be very troubling for Emirates especially when they are having great difficulty recruiting qualified pilots. When you ask around almost everyone agrees that they can not go lower than 2000 flying hours.
So stay tuned.

The minimums for recruitment are higher than 2000 hours. They haven't gone that low. Yet.

The 2000 hours mentioned is as an element of the 4000 total.

But if a Ryan Air pilot has 2005 total hours all on a 737 can he get hired?
I know for a fact not too many recent hires have over 4000 flying hours.
The last two criteria seem to contradict themselves. Is it 2500 or 2000 flying hours?

Expanding on what calmcavok has already posted....

gl69, they are two separate criteria altogether. I don't mean to point out the obvious but the "OR" in the description should have clarified this.

The criteria are 4000 total time of which 2000 must be on a multi-engine jet.
OR 2500 on a multi-engine jet.

So in other words, a Ryanair (or any other Airline which only operate Jet Aicraft), those pilots will likely reach 2500 on a multi-jet but may only have 2700 hours total time. (I'm talking about those that have undertaken a zero to hero course with minimal previous flying experience).

But on the other hand, take someone who has lots of experience, say 2000 hours on a turbo-prop aircraft, but then has recently moved onto a jet....they need 4000 hours total time, to also include 2000 hours on a multi engine jet as part of the 4000 total.

Having said that, in the past when they needed lots of pilots, you could be hired by them with less than the requirements, but could only join once you had the hours mentioned above. Not any more that I am aware of.

This was directed at 737/320 family pilots - in other words not Embraer guys or similar!

Would any of you EK guys say that direct entry commands would be likely in the future at Emirates?
Thanks,
FBY

Absolutely. They are working on the new DEC contract at the moment. To make it attractive they are introducing a few new measures. The talk is that there will not be a new pay scale so it will be other parts of the package to be adapted:

No factoring; 84 hr Productivity Limit
Removal from the bid of days off restrictions
DECs put on a 3 month rotating bid with no reserve
Increased housing allowance
2 weeks extra leave/year
No restrictions on roster compression

From what I understand it is an attempt to create a commuting package whilst retaining adequate pay and remuneration.

:8

Hee-hee.

That was quite funny and I laughed out loud.

However, the question asked was genuine and deserves a fair answer.

Thee will be no requirement for DECs at any point in at least the next 10 years, as the expansion has (and will continue to) slow down as the final fleet numbers are revised.

There are many, many experienced FOs on the list who will be in line to take their place over the next 5 years.

Most new joiner FOs are low on hours but by the time their command comes around in approx. 10 years they will easily be qualified.

My advice would be to try a short-haul command down the road at the national carrier in Abu Dhabi... But then, why would you leave a short-haul command at home to come to the Middle East where life is much harder and the money probably not much better (especially if you're not on the long-haul left seat).

Hope this helps. Please have patience with most of the posters on this board as they are hot and bothered ;)

:ok:

Mr GC,

If the 2 weeks extra leave is considered to be over the 30 day guarantee we'd almost be back to 2002 with the "new" package. :ooh:

Thanks Mr Good Cat for your advice. I must admit Schnowser had me going for a second because from outside, all you hear about is Emirates vast order requirements so naturally you think that they might want experienced captains at some point.
I'm really trying to get an insight into Emirates because on the face of it they look to be an extremely modern and growing airline in a growth sector of the World, with good backing and future opportunities. Something it seems is sadly lacking at my Airline looking forward.
I'm a UK wide-body Airbus captain with over 12,000 hours, so although I'm not unhappy where I am, things are changing here (not in a good way) and it might be time for something new. (Even a move to the RHS if it was with a good company, and wasn't for too long).

Emirates also appeals because it's not hugely far from home than say a Far Eastern carrier, and seems (from what I can gather) to have an extremely multicultural workforce and a company ethos that being largely Expat, is supportive of a wide variety of expat pilots, rather than a cultural 'them vs us' that I understand, can be the case in a Far Eastern culture for the Westerner.

People generally are more motivated to post when they don't like something, so the large amount of negative posts and the odd blog I suspect don't tell the whole story. I'm also aware that there are a number of US and Oz pilots at Emirates and given the differences in culture and the distance that they are from home, I can see where the frustrations might lie. But they also may have a point!
Some of this may sound naive to someone already working in The Middle East, but it's not easy to see the wood for the trees sometimes.
So any constructive advice and information for a fellow aviator contemplating his future, would be gratefully received. :ok:

Many thanks
FBW

I agree that Emirates doesn't need direct entry captains but wouldn't surprise me if it happens. I think your best bet is down the road in Abu Dhabi....they are hiring lots of DECs