Careful with your bidding ...
 

New York, Boston and Washington ... multiple (3) crew, from next month.

Yep.... Two captains and 1 FO from what I heard.

Kap

why not two FOs and One captain like what Air France does.

How do you know it's a 3 man crew? Where does it state that?

I checked the pairing reports and couldn't detect anything there.

Didn't they try this once before?

they tried but some of us didn't go into discretion, many did tho.

yep, just checked the pairing for JFK
TRIP # 201 (MT) [1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
TRIP # 5201 (MT) [0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]

So only a Capt on the 5201.

Looks like 203/5203 is OK tho

Just had a quick look (really need a life) and BOS is showing as 2 Capts and 1 FO but IAD still sowing as a 4 man crew. Hmmmmmm.....

How does that work? Haven't been in the right seat for years. Is there a requirement to be current in the seat one occupies? Interesting.

1000 points to avoid CKY
Company strangely silent on Ebola outbreak.

Good luck with your 1000 pts avoid CKY bid...

Unbelievable.......
3 men crew......
But the sad thing is that most of us will go into discretion......:ugh:

Guys Guys !!!
What does your Chp 7 say the limit is ? Can you all agree on what the max FDP is and margin before one goes into discretion for this JFK trip u mention ;
So answers please ; Ya got to put things into Context before having a gripe to the internet community , ....

BTW: authorities will contact the airline in question if a certain leg
Is going into discretion too much and instruct the airline to resolve any Flt issues without delay; guess crew members will have to keep track of all reports and if concerned ;follow up with the authorities to ensure they have received your report.

So guys calculators out please ; what's the limit ???
We can't comment until facts are present ! Otherwise enjoy your flight to the big apple ; your bar bill just got cheaper with a man down ;)

Furthermore: If your crew reduction on this trip is true ; is this actually going to take place all ahead of the well publicised runway closure in Dubai ? Interesting times for sure , so answers please ...

ek201 is a 14:45 hrs duty. 3 crew with 4 hrs rest in the CRC can work for 15 hrs (13+2) before discretion. am I right?

tz

A bit silly to try this during the runway closure period.

Delays will almost certainly result in necessary FTL discretion.

So I'll be making sure that my times are marked correctly, I work them out and double and triple check and then when it comes to going into discretion I shall be giving my thumbs down. Why should I risk the lives of my crew and passengers just so that the company can save a few fils because heaven forbid anything happens it'll be my fault.

Planned 15 hrs is not the flight plan time it's planned time from statistical winds . This was done on the 345 one or two summers and yes 15 -20 mins to spare before discretion . Poor planning based on the Rwy closure . Just had a look, it's 1415 duty for FTL's the 30 mins post flight are for rest planning.

ULR Rules
 

Gents, Calm down.

So if at any time during the year the flight time is over 14 hrs a flight is a ULR.
It remains a ULR even if the flight time drops below 14hrs..I.e JFK in summer.

Now...All ULR's must be planned with 4 crew..

It is clearly a miss print on the trips descriptions as it also shows all 3am departure variation flights (MAA,COK etc) having 3 crew as well.

M

Fliion , just so you know the 3 man thing has been report to the FAA before, but by all means go ahead. Last time they did nothing, the FAA audit was right after that summer .

In the UK its 33% discretion before action has to be taken (over the season)
I once did 100% discretion on a DC10 flight to Tenerife with a 1hr turn at TFS (as the aircraft was covering a B757 flight). The main reason was the flight went at 0555z which was a crap reporting time - no chance of a delay to 0600z due slots. At the end of the season Commercial rang me and said they had changed the times for the next summer - much excitement - until they told me it was going at 0550z instead :ugh:

I guess the question is instead of venting on the forum why not just ring someone up and ask?

I suspect Xulu has hit the nail on the head. Does the Commander take the last break?

Fliion,

Right with ya at the FSDO - this sort of policy and decision making should be stamped out although I suspect it will require the might of a government and restrictions on air travel to counteract this potential major safety issue.
Its a risk to crew and passengers lives.

Flying over 900 hours is not a safety issue?
Just did the Taipei flight. 9:47 flight time and TWO pilots in the middle of the night! Does anyone think this is remotely safe? Emirates has been doing this crap for years.

I second that emotion.

What i do not believe is that the FAA, or by that any aviation authority, will do a lot about it. They are all heavily undermined by the local airlines who want nothing more than emulate how the Middle Eastern airlines abuse fdr's and by that safety.

The only defence, and by that a legal one, is to deny going into discretion too early. You can always, and by that i mean always say, that you cannot at the beginning of an operation seriously judge your state of fatigue at its end, thus discretion at the beginning of a US flight must be considered careless and will be considered as that by any judge in case of incidents. This is for a single leg. With a double leg never refuse to go! Just ask them, as a preemptive information, where the relief crew will be sent, in case you will be obliged by law to deny going into discretion due to fatigue. "Will it be Karachi or Muscat?".

Stay within the book and common sense. Any threats following a denial of discretion is a completely different matter then. That's the time aviation authorities must start action, the one of the originating just as much as the one of the arriving country.

And always remember: This is for the cause of safety in aviation and never against any company!

Is there anyway we can find the identity of some of our fellow posters here on pprune? I strongly suspect that some of the Soft C0ck5 on pprune are posting from the management offices.

Cerbus, that contravenes the rules of the forum.

Back to the topic.

Do you guys believe that 201 and others will be op with 2 capt and 1 FO?

Maybe I am missing something, but for that, Capts have to be right hand seat qualified and as far as I know nobody except trainers are.

I made a phone call and was told it won't happen so I removed my post.

Standing by

f.

Don't think the augmenting captain need to be RHS-qualified, at least the way EK is doing it now. The FOs aren't LHS-qualified and that's why the pilot that is PF at any given time should be in the seat that he/she is qualified for. That raises the question though, what if the PF needs to take a "comfort break" during the time let's say a FO is in the LHS? That leaves only the PM now also PF in a seat that he/she is not qualified for.

Obviously it is because you are still alive. Unless your ghost is posting on your behalf.

Just because I survived doesn't mean it is safe. It means I survived through no help from Emirates.
9:47 through the middle of the night and you think that is safe?

9:47 during the night. No different to a night India turn. Not saying it's right just saying we did the same in Europe on the way to TFS or LCA .

Just wow.

The old "nothing happened so it must be safe. Such a refreshingly proactive take on safety.

Can't wait to see how THAT holds up in some courtroom some day. "Well we got away with nonsense for years, so we kinda...thought...y'know..." *voice trails off*

The question was "Does anyone think this is remotely safe?".

Remotely - in the slightest degree. It is because an accident doesn't happen every time this flight operates.

Obviously, organising your time off so you're rested properly before such a duty means you won't be so dangerous when you're operating what is a pretty common duty in other parts of the world.

Yeah talk semantics to me!

Not having an accident on a flight doesn't mean it was safe, it just means you survived. Theres no connection anyway, in the logical sense you suggest - you could have a flight which was conducted very safely which still resulted in an accident...

No its not common and in any case - two wrongs would not make a right

So is this a dangerous flight conducted safely?

You better let the UK charter boys know it's not common.

“There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one’s own safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn’t, but if he was sane he would have to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn’t have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.

So from these posts one would assume there will be no one going into discretion. Who cares to bet on that.

Correct.
EK OM-D 2.1.3.6

FOs got left seat training when they were initially trained. I was never an FO on the airplane I am flying and I never received right seat training in decompression, emergency descent and TCAS maneuvers. Therefore I am not qualified to sit in the right seat.
I strongly suspect numerous captains have not sat in the right seat in years and is out currency to sit in the right seat without additional right hand seat training.
On another note the FAA is looking into EK application's to fly the A-380 to SFO. The FAA is finally concerned that the flight attendants are only getting 2 1/2 hours of rest on the ULRs which sometimes are 16 hours of flight time.

Not true, as a Captain you are qualified for either seat and only a CPL is anyway required to sit in the other seat. Also because the AFS system is essentially identical from both seats there is no additional training requirement in the cruise. The aircraft is designed to be operated with the PF in their normal operating seat when below cruise altitude. Before you start blaming EK this principle comes from FARs and EASA Regs too.

You'll need a better argument than that, after all most of the time guys whine they don't get enough authority so hopping 4 feet right with a Captain in the other seat shouldn't be too onerous.