The thread keeps going!!
what goes up in answer to your question would i join an airline as a DEC yes i would. However i would not expect to join an airline where there are so many qualified f/o's being shat on from a great height. EK is not an airline that lacks experience in the right hand seat that cannot be said for other airlines where they do not have suitable f/o's to upgrade.
The SCAB comment may seem harsh but put yourself back 5 years in US air. The company have announced that they are employing direct entry captains from the middle east on higher salaries than current captains, this is not a requirement but is there to save a bit of money. The union jumps up and down and calls for strike action however the DEC's still arrive, what would they be called when they cross the picket line???..... We don't have unions in the middle east so we can't have picket lines to cross but the result is still the same pilots being shafted. We now have a situation where a DEC has joined emirates 2 years ago ( at least then with the introduction of the 340 they could almost be justified) and is now trying to recruit his mates to join him in the sandpit and screw the guys he is flying with every day. It is WRONG and he would NEVER have accepted this in his old airline.
Rant over i will retire from the forums for a while as i have to go to work!!

I'm sometimes wondering - has any first officer with EK who has the previous experience, but didn't start as DEC because they didn't hire DEC at that time, thought of applying now for the job? I couldn't find anywhere on their webpage that you can't apply if you already work for EK. :rolleyes:

Then again - would you be willing to give up your seniority (maybe a year or 2) to start again as DEC? (well - it would be definatly better pay, but what about the rest of the contract?)

And what would happen, if you were invited for an interview - and failed??? :E
Now that could be interesting... :}

Just some thoughts...
Eli

[quote=Toad Hall]The thread keeps going!!
what goes up in answer to your question would i join an airline as a DEC yes i would. However i would not expect to join an airline where there are so many qualified f/o's being shat on from a great height.

So TH, the answer is yes, you would join another airline as a DEC. But only with qualifers that YOU find appropriate. Would you join Singapore as a DEC if the offer came your way? How about Ryan? Good pay. Delta Air Lines had a similar, but somewhat different deal. With over 2000 pilots having retired within 18 months, they were in dire straights over shutting down widebody flying, since most retiring were international captains. So Delta, with union approval, allowed retired pilots to come back and fly in category. All senority lost, but certainly slowed down the progression of the F/Os for a couple of years. The airline continued to expand internationally, and gave the airline breathing room. Yes, this is a different animal than permanent DECs, but does not EK benefit by being able to short course some qualified DECs, get the aircraft, one a month and expand? Do you not benefit in some way by the continued expansion, continued aircraft delivery?

So back to the original post, Toad, you would be a DEC where you deemed it appropriate, but it is not right for someone from the outside to deem it appropriate to join Ek. Maybe the guys joining now as DECs see a real problem at EK with some of the attitudes by F/Os exhibited here.

Can't wait to hear this reply on your DEC rationalization.
IXNAT

IXNAT,

Those that joined EK after about Aug 2003 knew that DECs were be hired when they signed on the dotted line. They really have no cause to complain as they knew what they were getting into.
However, those that joined before this date have been well and truely shafted. They were promised commands within 3yrs. They were told of the upgrade policy and made their decision of leaving another job to join EK based upon this. Little were they prepared to have the rug well and truely pulled from under their feet by a complete change of the terms of their employment. I am guessing that by the end of this year, the last of those FOs that were disadvantaged by the hiring of DECs should have been offered a upgrade course.
Then, once these fellas have been upgraded, EK will become another airline like KAL, SIN etc where the hiring of DECs is known about by new joiners, and accepted.
So the reason that the hiring of DECs at EK has caused people to be upset at the moment is varied. For the FOs that joined on a promised (and yes it was promised to them during the recruitment) 3yrs to upgrade as published in the FOM, they have been disadvantaged (not just by salary, but staff travel, bonus, provident fund and housing as well). For the Captains that were already in the company, they have watched as DECs, with not even a type rating, have joined on salaries greater than their own.
So, I think if you join a company which actively hires DECs. You do so knowing that someone off the street may one day take your command. This is the present state of play at EK for new joining FOs. Those FOs that joined before EK decided to hire DECs feel ripped off as they watch DECs arrive, and their command be delayed.

Don

DPMO, Good on you, to respond with some dignity and thoughtfulness. You are right, in that when you are promised something and it doesn't come to fruition, that would tend to piss anyone off. On the other hand, is it mostly the Airbus guys that are wired or are the Boeing guys pissed too? My understanding is that there is a six year freeze on type equiment. Would that preclude an airbus first officer from getting his command on the Boeing?

EK doing assesments in ATL for over a week. So far they are almost full up for the simulator. Dozens of Delta retireds taking the assesment. I know of at least a half dozen that if offered the job they will go for sure. I know of four that have been offered a B777 DEC and three will go. Bunch of Northwest pilots in the same boat. So there you go, the beginning of the tide might just be beginning. For all the firsts that have the quals, I hope they upgrade at least an equal number. Some good will on the companies part, no matter how small, always goes a long way. good luck guys,
IXNAT :ok:

Not really worth reponding too, but........
 

Hi Toad Hall,

I did wonder for a minute or two if you were lost. Someone must have left the computer on.

Take some advice for what its worth.

"You have dug a deep enough hole for yourself. Don't keep on digging, your're up to your neck as it is"


Regarding cabin crew, I have plenty of respect for them. Unlike you.

Emirates are taking a big gamble with you. For your sake, I hope it works.

Regards,

Kiwi.

So, has anybody got anything good to say about Emirates? How does it compare to the likes of Ryanair, for example?

Hi Kiwi

Just got back ...been away for a few days water skiing with my mates ...very hot at the moment...I se you are still on the Toads case.

I have a Q for you....I dont mind the answer "are you a women?:ugh: "

TR:ok:

Hi Dork!
 

Why don't you go back.

"are you a women"? I think you mean "are you a woman". Answer "no"

You seem very similar to Gatvol2006. Are you related? " Are you his son, brother or perhaps boyfriend?

Regards,


Kiwi.

Free oven mits and a nice FIFA World Cup sponsorship badge:yuk:

In a hurry, but rude not to reply.
 

Hi Tail Rota,

Thanks for your post.

some answers for you -

Pertinaciuos - means very determined and/or very persistent.
Just check your Dictionary! I don't think you can get a "set" of Dictionaries. You might be confused with encyclopedias, but who the hell cares!

I went to watch the Crusaders beat the Brumbies at Jade Stadium last night. 33-6 I think. That covers the "Kiwi" query.

You seem to bring immature comments into the forum like "queen", "womens day forum" and "Brian in BKK". Have you ever considered that you may have some underlying sexual problems? Just a thought.

Regarding the Brian gag. In hindsight I should have let it go, but Brian writing "I would kindly swap my left seat for my sons illness" is not sad, but sick.

Keep posting Tail Rota, you give any prospective F/O or DEC all the confidence required to apply with Emirates.

Regards,


Kiwi.

Oh Well!
 

My effort to make friends on here hasn't worked so..... :eek: you! (just kidding !!)


In closing

I had always been happy visiting PPRuNe as a guest, but after reading the "Toad Hall" scab comment I couldn't help but join. If I hadn't joined I believe Toad Hall would have happily continued acting as an idiot. My intention on this thread was to start a healthy debate on the DEC issue which I think is up there with the impending payrise issue.

The big surprise to me is the lack of overqualified/qualified F/O's ready for upgrade who have refrained from supporting "Toad Hall". A couple did but they were not worthy. I have found that some people on here are great at dishing out obscenities and insults, but once it ventures beyond that and becomes a healthy debate, those people just go weak at the knees and crumble. Or use immature and stupid remarks.

Is it because;

Toad Hall did a 180 degree turn and decided he was a scab after all. Sorry, I mean a prospective DEC next year, after Emirates have forked out some cash upgrading him. On that note, why not save that particular expense and use it for the remuneration budget?

Mutley Crew also deciding he would join the next airline as an DEC.

Who knows?

4HP, feel free to close the thread when ever you want. Although it would be good to get some feedback from supermd11 re: interview and Psych review?

Regards,


Kiwi.

What a sad little bird
 

From another thread but applicable here as well well as anywhere else on the Middle East Forum
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has anyone else wondered why kiwi r4 deigns to grace our forums with his or her superior intellect and vast vocabulary when according to the personal profile he/she is clearly a patriotic bird with either jet connect, pacific blue or air nz and has no intention of leaving the land of the long white cloud. "Real blokes"; those with swandri's and red band gumboots wouldn't bother with the kind of tat this bird comes up with. "Real blokes" eats, roots and leaves. Go away little bird; you EK reject.

Mack Tuck

about time:ugh:


Good Night Kiwi


TR:ok:

A happy little bird, actually!
 

Hi Mack Tuck,

Thank you for your post! You’re a real joy germ aren’t you?

I don’t believe I have any superior intellect or for that matter, a vast vocabulary. But, I’ll take your comment as a compliment anyway.

Anyone will stand out in this forum if they can string along a sentence, use correct punctuation and spell most words correctly. Even you, Mack Tuck, would have to admit that the majority of postings are woeful. As an example, someone who posts regularly in here keeps doing …….. all the time. What is that? I simply put it down to a nervous disorder, or perhaps a stutter.

Your historical postings clearly indicate your thoughts about DEC employees and applicants. Very negative.

But interested to note;

Mack Tuck post 10 March 2006 on the Subject “Dec Interview”

Read the last threads as advised and then add to that you will be as welcome as a hole in the head.


But this?

Mack Tuck post 18th December 2005 on the subject “Vietnam Airlines”

I have just been to Vietnam for a look before applying as DEC and liked what I saw. Would like some extra info if possible.
1. Are the contracts purely commuting or is it possible/desirable to have family there and if so what are the english schools like for 8 and 9 year olds?
2. What kind of accommodation can one expect, i.e. apartment or villa and is it paid for by the company? Which district would it be in?
3. Are cars expensive to buy?
4. What is staff travel like on VN and other carriers; I see they dont have ZED fare agreements. Can relatives use staff travel?
5. Which recruitment company is best to go through?
Thanks for any help offered.


You sure know when to turn on the charm, don’t you?

Any thoughts or comments regarding DEC’s would be greatly received.


Regards,


Kiwi.

PS. Your post regarding “Real Blokes” was quite humerous!

Before I forget, I haven't been rejected by EK.

You always have to jump in
 

Good Morning Tail Rota


Why is it that you always have to jump on someone elses coat tails to get noticed? Just a thought!


Regards,

Kiwi.

Mommy mommy
 

Kiwi,
Don't despair. What I have learned here is that when you apply logic and rationality to the discussion, the silence can be deafening. I asked Toad Hall why he has issues about DECs at EK but he would take a DEC position somewhere else, if HE saw it appropriate. Silence. Some good discussion, but see a lot of school yard logic here. Must be a joy in the cockpit with some of these guys. "Are too" "Are not" "Are too" "Are not". Bring it on girls.
IXNAT

MIA. FO Toad Hall
 

Hi IXNAT,

In fairness to Toad Hall he did communicate that he would be absent for awhile due work requirements.

But once Toad Hall discovers the internet can work outside of Dubai we might get an answer to your question.

Regards,


Kiwi.

Kiwi r4


http://www.startrek.com/html/images/TNG/data.jpg



When I read your posts I see you as a female version of "Data"...( see attached Photo )...that is pronounced "Daytar". .......I suspect you have missed your calling:E

My advice.......as I have mentioned to you in a past posting is

go to the "Womans Day" forum and write "star signs" for the handicapped.

(no disrespect to the Handicapped or Womans Day intended:O )

If you are a Kiwi bloke or a shiela trying to be a bloke........you may want to consider moving to Oxford Street in Sydney. I think you would fit in well there.:}


No coat tails in sight........oh is that your sheep I hear barrrrrrring in the back ground.......cuddly arnt they:cool:

( no disrespect to Kiwi's either )

Alpha Mike Foxtrot

TR:ok:

I hope the level of maturity was up to your standard and also hope the school yard banter hasnt hurt you feeling.
( no disrespect to myself )

Well my diminutive feathered foe, you clearly have an issue with manners and respect when visiting someones else's forum. Unfortunately, and in common with your namesake, you are fossicking about in the dark, your beak is too long and you are putting it where it does not belong. Over-inquisitive kiwis are becoming an endangered species!
You may want to consider the following when discussing the DEC issue:
Until all current FOs in EK upgrade and DECs are hired as a matter of course, with new joiners accepting that fact, there will be discord. At some point EK may become like Korean and SQ; but that is not currently the case. I cant speak for anyone else but I would only consider a DEC position at an airline where DECs are the norm and not the exception.
Back to the bush little one.