@ MANA
quote:
"EK does not, have not, and will not breach any employee contracts."

You gave it away Mana... YOU ARE MANAGMENT.....


YOU ARE LYING LIKE THEY DO....:D:D:D:D

Loyalty is a two way street Mana. And if any understanding or progress is going to be made, you should stop concentrating so much on management's point of view and at least accept that there could be another. I accept that times are tough right now, but please explain why conditions have steadily eroded over the last 6 years. You want to double your number of pilots, but are battling to cover attrition, hence this desperate post on here. While I appreciate the opportunity for dialogue (finally), it does smack of desperation.

Your lack of understanding of current concerns is all I feared it may be. You ask why we air our negativity here; well where else? Communication on any matter regarding our deteriorating conditions is met with a brush off. What do we have left, apart from moving on?

This was once, over a decade ago, when I came here for an interview, a good job. You have made it an industry joke. All I can say is that it is a big wheel, and it turns real slow, but one day we will be back on top. Hope you can still look at yourself in the mirror.

I am happy that the views reflected by the majority of you are not representational for EKs staff, and that the reality experienced luckily differs allot from the one portrayed here. I think EK needs to take measures to ensure that negative views not in accordance with reality is not tolerated, and that such views cannot be allowed to destroy the good working climate at EK. If we could operate in a professional manner and have faith in our co-workers we would all be much better off.


So EK needs to take measures........sounds like a threat to me. misMana(agment), please enlighten us where the pilot group is NOT operating in a professional manner. Any potential recruit only has to read the above. You sir in the last two days have done more to damage the reputation of EK than all the posts over the past year. Many recruits could look at our postings and say we are a bunch of whingers and they themselves could gut it out. But you, with what you have written proves without a doubt what all have been saying. We will be looking in Safa for a link to your gold star.

But there is more
 

Business is business you hear from time to time. Today these words seem to have the connotation that everything is permitted.

EK will use everything in its power to get the job done, and that is why they are facing more and more rebellion, inside the company as well as fierce resistance from airlines that have to compete with EK on the basis of safety, efficiency and quality only.

EK however, being owned by the government, that is a single family that owns the whole country, has a significant advantage over its competitors, who more and more do no longer accept the EK tactics.

When the financial crisis broke out, Dubai cried out that they were treated unfair by the international media but internally they will even attack those that are loyal to them.

Intimidation, harassment, torture, blackmail, bribe, psychological rape etc .... Everything money can buy is on the menu. Do not be mistaken, EK has to do this. Dubai as a country is not yet big enough to be self sustaining, they have to grow, whatever the human (it's only expats anyway) cost in order to survive.

Any criticism, even when uttered with positive intention will be driven into the ground, EK is their national pride.

One may think what kind of drivel is all of this but every single bit of is has been proved to be true. If they have any pride they should face this evidence head on.

I am not saying that the owners are all that bad, but if they are being told what the possibilities are and what the risks, they will cover part of the risk if things go wrong in order to avoid any international exposure. They are the law and soon enough they will tell other authorities how things are done.

They already have the vice president seat at ICAO, if they are not careful in that capacity, they might expose their true nature more than they intend to.

This is a political reality they will have to accept. Air Canada supported by their government, knows all about it. Enough is enough.

And news in this industry spreads very fast.

Mana: PPRuNe is the only way to get this exposed, to do so internally if far too dangerous, a reality only a fool would ignore. This argument and this argument only is the reason why this forum is so active. You do not see these kind of arguments coming out of any airline outside he Middle East.

So Mana,
Have you made a list of the people appropriate measures need to be taken against.
You talk about UAE law, that pardond a guy for shoving sand up a persons mouth and planting nails in his butt and rubbing salt on it, because the poor guy did not know what he was doing. The SUV just went over him a few times becase he had diminished responsability. What do you guys smoke here.
Would you like to see the video, probably not :)

I also hope that Mana is a fellow pilot, using his posts to illuminate the situation here. I want to believe that management is not so desperate or stupid as to resort to such imbecilic responses. I want to believe it......but...

If he is a pilot, he has to be a local kid, so full of the brainwashing they get.
Like they have a culture :)
The only Arabs that had one were north of the PERSIAN GULF.
If the Persians knew there would be a thing like black gold, they would have taken this Arabian outback over 2000 years ago.

Got it, Mana is one of ours. You know who we haven't seen post on here? Ole Mensaboy. Has to be him. He couldn't let this juicey bit of nonsense go uncommented on.:ok:
TU

May be he is dead, like in our darkest hour.

For those newbies that are trying to post, your posts may need a moderator approval. Its a software thing. Bear with me

Also be aware that you maybe being wound up..... Just a thought.

Carry on.

EGGW

Very interesting developments here.
I can just imagine the fallout in the media over this thread if god forbid a fatigue related mishap was to eventuate.
The warning signs were there and if mana is actually a bona fide EK management hack they were warned appropiately through conventional and not so conventual (public) ways, hopefully the courts willl hang the ones responsible for the mess from the tallest crane in the UAE however thats probably wishfull thinking.

It seems to be that the grievances posted here are not just a select few but a large proportion of the EK flt crews.
Feel sorry for you guys that have to deal with this, all i can say is hang in there, things will get better one way or another even if it means leaving.

Hey MANA !
 

Sorry to rain on your parade buddy, but EK is way, way short of being a World Class Airline.

Do take a look at Skytrax, and see just how many complaints are posted there by disgruntled passengers.

My family and I have have flown EK a couple of times, and have vowed never to do it again.

You aircraft are FILTHY inside.
The toilets are FILTHY.
Your staff on the ground are LAZY and RUDE.
Your staff in the air are LAZY and RUDE.
Your seats are UNCOMFORTABLE.
Your cabin service is POOR.

I had a Flightcrew application in with EK a few years ago - I am more than qualified to work for you - but I have since withdrawn that application.

I DON'T WANT TO WORK FOR EK ANYMORE.

Just take a guess why, Mana...

Well,having followed various threads on pprune over the past 10 years or so there are really only a couple of major airlines I would not put my family on.
One is Korean the other is Emirates.

I fly longhaul for a major far east airline, I know all about fatigue believe me and the way you guys at Emirates are rostered to fly does not instill much confidence in the safety of your operation.

Emirates policy with regard to rostering and in particular fatigue management will eventualy bite them in the arse,it nearly did in Melbourne and sadly I think another Melbourne is just around the corner.

So until rostering practices change,I will not recommend to anyone who asks me Emirates as a SAFE airline to fly on.
my 2 cents worth.
good luck to you all, I hope common sense will prevail.

Mana is certainly not a pilot. I have never run across a colleague who spoke the management 'double-speak' as well as him.

The Utilities issue is ''incovenient''? Sorry, it's much more than ''inconvenient'', you ass.

"Dubai's future looks bright''? Wow, that statement actually made me laugh out loud!

''SOME pilots have to take on a higher workload''. Nope, all pilots must take on a higher workload but more importantly, it is unsustainable. This fact, which includes fatigue, health and family issues, is obviously readily apparent to most prospective new-joiners.

''No employee is let go at EK unless they have performed actions that is not a severe breach of regulations''. That is a complete falsehood, which every single pilot at EK has come to understand.

''EK has not, have not and will not breach employee contracts''. That is another complete falsehood that every employee, not just pilots, realizes about Emirates Airline.

Then Mana goes on to state that UAE lawyers have been consulted, obviously prior to the myriad of changes to our T&C's, and no doubt they weighed the likelihood of legal action before giving their advice. Clearly, even our pathetic management knew what they were doing, and they started taking risks and have yet been held to account.

Personally, I think we should encourage Mana to continue posting... he has quickly become the best ''anti-advertisement'' for prospective recruits to this shameless cesspool.

NOTHING will change for the better, until aircraft are parked! Even then, I doubt things will return to a sane level. The 'tipping' point has been surpassed and Emirates Airline is obviously attempting to mitigate the damage by employing certain immoral individuals to counter the truthful statements made on Pprune. It is comedic, except for the fact that the issues are so serious.

I have believed, up until reading Mana's dictated posts, that individuals who are UNEMPLOYED might want to consider EK as a short-term 'stop-gap' in their career, but NOW, I don't think this job is suitable even for those pilots. Short of living in a place where you stand a high risk of being killed (crime, traffic, etc) AND you are out of work....... forget about this job.

Mana has wonderfully demonstrated the attitude of our management and the futility of our struggle for important issues like Fatigue, Health, Lifestyle or even a tiny amount of respect for our professionalism and abilities.

This company has lost the plot!

Mana,
Don't want to attack you personally so this is just an effort on my behalf so that you may appear a little more intelligent in your future posts.
Spellcheck will not help with your incorrect use of the words "to" (too) and "ore" (or) in your last post about yor uuce ov spelllchek.
Idiot. :ugh:

Aaaaaaaahh.

The penny has dropped. Look at mana's use of big English words surrounded by basic grammatical errors.
Compare this to some FCI's.

I think it is EGT.

you mean Herrmann, the univited at the barbie?

The law in the UAE is very much set up to protect local companies. Large companies like Ek can choose to ignore employees rights (as they have done with the utilities allowances), knowing;

a. there is no such thing as "class action" in UAE law, and
b. there is no such thing as legal precedence, therefore the case your mate just won means nothing when you go to court to argue the exact same situation.

Therefore, all UAE companies know it is difficult and expensive for individuals to go to court, especially against a large entity, and win. That's why they take risks like this, and are happy to break the law with very little chance of it coming back to bite them.

The courts in DXB are also notoriously slow, and lawyers are hesitant to take on a government entity.

So Mana, your argument about EK following the law does not sit well with me (and no doubt the majority of readers/contributors to this forum). It continues to make your arguments seem astonishingly naive.

Bye Mana
 

I believe Mana has left the building. I don't think he ever expected such a response. I bet his boss/master told him to come on here and tell us how things are, but we showed him. The truth is very hard to take and I wish it could get to the top. This really could be a great place to work. Oh well the resumes are out and I'm just waiting to hear. Stay safe guys!.:ok:

Of course he's left the building....it's the weekend at EGHK. EGT has used up all of his mismanagement talking points, so we will hear from him probably Monday with some more threats as in his last post.:eek: Plus he will have to discuss what should be said in response. Let's face it, no question he is part of the EGHQ. How else would he know and make the slip that "lawyers were consulted". I don't know for sure; do you?

Hey guys and gals,

Its been awhile (5 months) since i have been to these forums. I was in the pool last year and took my name out of the hat after realizing how bad things were at EK after reading these forums. I know couple of the guys that got hired from the pool and they are trying to leave at first opportunity. I guess they did not head the warnings or they considered pprune as usual banter.

But i want to thank everyone (too many to name) that were honest and kept me away from the dune. My wife and I both appreciate it.

Best regards,

fb

etc...i still get emails from ek telling me to update my file even though i asked to remove my name from the pile. Will not fly ek and will tell my friends not to fly it either for safety related issues.

Mana?
 

Ixnat,
Me either, but as you said it sounds pretty good. I believe this is a great place to let them know what we think, but if they don't change anything my fingers could get tired. Have a good weekend and we will be ready for Sunday...:ok:

Liars and Cheats.
 

This is a brand new handle. I have another which I’m not using for this. VPN is a wonderful thing.

I have no idea whether Mana is a management stoogie, one of us or an outsider just stirring the pot, but it doesn't matter. Whether he intended to elicit the responses he has or not also doesn't matter. What does matter is that he has. For the first time there is post after post of reasonably argued points, no crap or fanciful add on's, people putting their honest points of view forward, and in a (for PPRuNe) coherent manner.

I am an EK pilot, on the B777. Everything negative that has been posted on this particular thread is true; at the very least, factually true with some individual slants attached.

We are entering, in fact have been for some three or four years, a period of Emirates history that has and will see the greatest erosion of our working conditions. There will be plenty more to come I'm sure.

I've just read EK Management's post. Could be a tosser, but the unfortunate thing is that if you ignore all the fancy (?) writing everything he says is correct. If you read his previous posts from a year or so ago, the worrying thing is that pretty well everything he wrote then was and/or has become fact.

The realities are we are working in the Middle East. That means that we are working for cheats, liars, deceitful and dishonest people. (Term used loosely). Due to the leader’s incompetence and ego, they have driven Dubai into the ground. (Like I could care). The same people who will lock you up for a 100DHS bounced cheque refuse to pay back monies borrowed, workers salaries, contractors agreed upon fees. I believe there was probably always an intention, financial storm or not, to never pay back the full amount of monies borrowed. In effect, they have built Dubai for free or half cost. And that is just what they are doing to us; lying, cheating, deceiving, stealing. We are on track to become the cheapest labour units in the airline industry. Just as EK manag. says.

This is much more than Talking Horse, TCAS, AAR, TCTC or Flaganon. It stems from the very top, this is their way of doing business.

I think now is probably the only chance there is of stopping the slide, perhaps even regaining some lost ground. There is no doubt that they've been a bit too clever, and have dug themselves a hole. Let's use that. I've seen it before elsewhere. Only problem is here there is no venue for dissension, discussion, complaints or negotiation.

Their behaviour the last few years has been and is appalling. Absolutely atrocious. And I believe, set to get worse given the mess that has been created Emirate wide.

This thread has obviously gone way off topic from what it started from; I think a new thread should be started and kept alive with the same manner of posts that have appeared since Mana. In their hundreds would be perfect. This is the ONLY forum that exists for us to express our displeasure in this backward society. I also believe that as much dirty washing as possible should be hung out for all to see. I’m not interested in cries of ‘professionalism’ or whatever. Fu** ‘em. It’s what they play on and use in any event. I think the thread should hammer home over and over again just how this company behaves. Any post that is bleeding heart or Mana like can of course remain, but I think should not be answered. This will be OUR thread, the multitude of disaffected Emirates Pilots thread, and all others, particularly the company, can get stuffed. It’s time to get the word out, and properly.

Cheers, I’ve had a GUTSFUL.

amen brother

Someone's already mentioned the absence of posts critical to EK here on Pprune a few short years ago.

Then, there was one man, [an ex-EK pilot who'd been terminated under what then (pre Sept 11th 2001) seemed extraordinary circumstances], critical of all things EK, and virtually every person replying to his posts (me included) defended EK.

Something's changed in the meantime, and it has changed radically. Anyone looking in from afar would have to ask himself: is it likely that 2500+ pilots within EK could have damn near ALL changed their atitudes to the company in that time simply because they ALL had a radical change of heart with no good reason?

Or, following the tenets of Occam's Razor, is there a more simple explanation? Has something changed - and changed radically - within the company to make virtually all those pilots who defended the company almost to a man back in 2003 now fill these pages with almost universally negative comments about the people who are at the helm?

I leave it to the reader to decide.





Karl, I still think you were wrong in much of what you said about EK management back then, but I have to admit that I think you'd have to wait a long time now to find someone who'd disagree with anything you said along the same lines you posted here back then.

EK circa 2004
 

In Support
 

ManaDubai makes valid points regarding the success of Emirates.

The airline has shown the greatest sustained growth in the industry.
The product is of a high quality. A fact testified by many customer and independent surveys.
It has been profitable throughout.
Its training and crew standards are of a high quality as shown by independent audit.
It is a highly sought after employer as applications in the thousands will prove.
It has a strong social consciousness and support several major charities.
The package for flight deck crew remains one of the best in the industry.
It has high safety standards that are monitored continually and compared with other leaders in the industry.
In regard to fatigue a team of qualified medical professionals monitor this with the assistance of a expert software package. Interviews are also conducted to ensure any external factors are accounted for.

None of this would be possible without a professional, dedicated, competent and fiscally aware management. This is particularly true over the past two years.

It will continue to grow and deliver a high quality product despite the few voices that attempt to disuade others from finding employment. These voices measure as a fraction of 1 percent of their employees and have little effect.

oh really? :eek: so you found the raisin in the huge pile of cow manure :D
btw...the average cotton farmer in North America before the civil war also had a lot of success :ugh::ugh::ugh:

A question worth repeating on the new page:

You loser Mana.
Changing user name from ManaDubai to ManagementMotion.
What an awesome tactic which hardly anyone will realise is just to give the image of someone else being as deluded as you.
Different handle - same ****.
Bit like our current change of management. Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. :yuk:

Whilst the voices coming on here and elsewhere and saying all is fine and dandy measure what percentage?????

ManagementMotion - check the definition of "motion" and you will find "gastrointestinal motility". That is - "****".
Looking forward to your next well thought out user name!

Guys, guys, guys...

You don't really, seriously believe that any of these Mana guys are genuine posters do you?

No wonder the pilot group is having it's intelligence questioned.

This is just one of 'our' guys having a little fun provoking some vitriol. He's probably just having a bit of fun to cheer himself up during dark times, therefore I won't be unfair and label him as a 'troll'.

In fact if there was a way to check the IP addresses of a ll the 'mana' type posts you would probably find they are the same.

If it's really frustrating you that much, just put these guys on the ignore list and concentrate on fighting the real issues instead of biting the bait from a practical joker.

It's a bit cringeworthy when you see our group responding to these guys like we really believe they are EK managament. Sheeesh... :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Agreed Good Cat. It's almost funny how these fellas are all putting so much heart and soul into this phony baloney dialogue. Mana must be laughing his pants wet at all you chaps.

Can you really see anyone from management posting on pprune to straighten the pilots out?

It's actually quite a boring thread; the same old points have been raised again in the hopes of "management" seeing things our way and making changes, Tragically naive and sad, really.

Still, it does serve to continue to highlight to prospective joiners a few facts of life about the way things are here.

Hey Ernest, it's interesting how many of the names in that thread are no longer active here.

Resignees? Worked to death? Beaten into submission? Their absence paints an interesting sideline picture...

Like me, they're probably gone and are now just interested observers from the sideline.

I hate to say it chaps, but I think Good Cat is correct! There is no way any 'relevant' management would actually be so stupid as to post the nonsense that Mana has been spouting here.

I do believe that TCAS/TCED et al read Pprune, but they would never condone the direct engagement of the pilots through fear of what has just happened on the last 6 pages!

At best I reckon Mana is a completely insignificant management type (VP Paperclips or similar), or more likely a moustached office junior with a curiously wobbly head deluding him/herself that he/she is more important than they actually are.......... The place is full of them!

However my money is on the possibility that it is one of our own on a wind up! At which point I would like to congratulate him on his sheer brilliance at managing to convince 'most' of us that he is actually 'management'..... Well done sir!:ok:

Well someone has worked it out at last...

All the "Mana"'s posted from outside the UAE. Thats all I will say. Fun reading all the same :ugh:

EGGW

Best wind up ever? Could be. Hard to tell given closeness of the 'mana's to actual management attitudes.

Also, with technology as it is, posters can appear to be somewhere else.:ok:

EGGW - you've probably looked-up the IP address that the PPRuNe server captured when Mana made his / her posts.... but can you confirm that Mana is not utilizing a Virtual Private Network (VPN) connection to disguise their true location?

E.g. If you look-up the IP address of this specific reply, it will probably suggest that I'm in the environs of Los Angles (as that's where I've pointed my VPN client, prior to submitting this reply).... though you shouldn't be too surprised to learn that that's not where I really am! ;)

Aside, Mana could well indeed be posting from within an EK office overseas, and / or connected to that office via an EK VPN... unless you know differently? :E