|
Hi!
EK is desperate for pilots now, and it will just get worse monthly. I would not be surprised if they start hiring DECs again, and soon. They emailed something to every email in their database. They asked the pilots to tell any of their pilot friends. What happened to EK was the normal cyclical pattern of earth. The economy went down, so EK quit hiring, and started saving money on operational costs, like assigning the pilots 92 hour schedules. Conditions at EK have gotten worse, just like a lot of other places. BUT, EK doesn't have a contract, so they can just cut whatever they want. THEN, EK got 10 -380s unexpectedly from Qantas, at the same time the economy started to improve. So: Many crews are leaving EK now, as they are fed up, AND there is now somewhere for them to go to. These new airplanes, that were unexpected, need new crews quickly. Then, EK has the normal new planes coming in that they always had. Because the crews are already schd to 92 hours, they can't just assign them to cover open trips, or guys who get sick... there is NO slack in the schedule! So, things are snowballing, and with the way the economy is going, more and more places are hiring, which will make it more difficult for EK to get guys, more guys will leave EK, which will make it worse for those there, which means more guys leave, etc., etc. I have read several posters that say Capts that are leaving are getting paid WAY above normal, with preferential schedules, if they will postpone their departure for XXX amount of time. This also makes things worse, because the guys who stay see the leavers getting big money, and good schedules. The guys who stay have to work even worse schedules, which makes them want to leave. Currently in the US: Lots of the regionals are now hiring, starting to hire, or will hire soon. Virgin America, Atlas, and Southern are hiring. AirTran is starting interviews again this month and will be hiring. It looks like Delta and JetBlue will hire this year, with JB starting in soon. Allegient just bought 757s and may be starting hiring again soon. EK will HAVE to lower their recruiting standards, AND start improving things for their pilots, if they want to avoid big manning problems. cliff NBO |
I don't think it will be as simple as just hiring DECs. With the reputation EK has acquired I can't imagine anybody with the required experience wanting to come. Would they hire DECs with less experience than they demand from their own F/Os for upgrade? You now need thousands of hours on an Emirates type to get to the left hand seat. No more hiring DECs who have only flown 737s in Europe as they did last time- and this is definitely a hole they have dug for themselves!
|
EK
Hi think there are a lot of qualified f.o in ek to be consider for upgrade as cpt,why the are not take into consideration?
There are some upgrading course in progress? |
Question;.why bother?
Your package is pretty much the same..why would you come to EK????? Have you not read what's happening here? Life must be pretty crap for you to consider moving to EK from a reasonable paying job like that! |
Doesn't he need time on EK type for DEC??
|
EK F/Os need time on type for the upgrade. I'm sure they wouldn't have one rule for their own crews and another for DECs, would they? Perish the thought, that would be like a unilateral change in terms and conditions....:ugh:
|
interview questions
Hi everyone, I just was notified for an interview date later this month, what can you say about the process. I have read all the comments and would like to know if this is worth coming over to do? thank you
|
Hi!
ricfly744: EK does not have any -400s. The one's you see that are painted "Emirates SkyCargo" are Atlas planes, operated by Atlas on lease to EK. EK used to hire DECs, but don't now. They have lots of FOs that are qualified for Capt upgrade, ESPECIALLY if they change the requirements back to what they used to be. It IS hard to pull a bunch of FOs offline to upgrade them when they are all on 92 hour block schedules, with no one available to fly reserve in their place. EK's manning situation will get worse month by month for the foreseeable future, in my opinion. cliff NBO |
Rickfly 744
Firstly although the 744 is listed as an EK aircraft, they are not operated by us, and as far as I know the hours don't count as EK type hours for the purpose of DEC or upgrade. Your assumption of 80hours probably indicates that you have little idea of what is to come. Work on 95 minimum but then take away the following hidden charges. Medical – yes you pay Provident fund – yes you contribute and its compulsory Telephone charges – outrageously expensive and is deducted from your pay Fines for missed appointment at the clinic Emirates national ID (compulsory and you pay) Top up beer money at many destinations as allowances rarely cover proper meals let alone a few beers, in some places we get no allowances at all) Very expensive visa charges for maids and helpers (don't need one, well lets see after you arrive when you misses has to spend 3 hours in traffic everyday taking kids to school and doing admin.) As for the furloughed guy asking about EK it largely depends on if your prepared to jump the bond. If you think you may need to return to the UAE in the future then jumping the bond is probably not an option and you'll be stuck for 3 years, after that they have 3 years worth of your provident fund should you decide to walk without paying your bills If you think your not likely to come back later you could give it a try, get the training, and experience, then if you don't like it take a page out of the emirates school of management and don't honor your contract, and do a runner.(like many have before you) . To any prospective employee the following have been done to death so listen, learn, and don't ask about them later. Don't come here expecting to get commuting rosters..its not going to happen, Don't come here expecting to get off shore bases..its not going to happen, Don't come here expecting to bid flights to get home..its not going to happen the bidding systems a joke, Don't come here expecting to save money because there's no tax and everything is free and provided by the company..its not going to happen, as an FO with kids you'll barely make ends meet Don't come here expecting to bid and fly long haul and get 18 days off a month..its not going to happen, they have bidding restrictions, and days off restrictions to make sure it doesn't happen. Don't come here expecting to get use of the jump seat to get too or from home ..its not going to happen (crew are not permitted to use the jump seat for this purpose) Don't come here expecting your contract not to change..it will change, and usually for the worse, Don't come here talking about unions, associations and the like, you'll be on the first fight out of here, Don't come here expecting to get your contracted 3 percent pay increment..we didn't get it last year, and its unlikely we'll get it this year. Be aware that as far as the Arab locals here are concerned you are a slave just like the maids, drivers, ditch diggers, and ass wipers, who make up 97 percent of Dubai's population, and 83 percent of the UAEs, and if you are not prepared to accept that, don't come. And lastly don't come here if your a DEC expecting to cuff it. The EK operation is comprehensive and extensive, if you don't have significant wide body, and international airline experience you won't cut it, failure rates are high. Hope this helps |
there are around 1200 pilots. 100 would be almost 10% if not more, considering the guys that are on leave or training.
|
SKY
Your saying that at any given time there are 1200 guys on leave or in traing? :ugh:. Better get your fact rights. Anyway a sickness rate of 5% is not that a big deal. Will get worse though:= |
Emirates has been the fastest growing and most succsesful airline of the 21st century, and I am sure we will continue to be so. Our business model has proven to be sustainable even in difficult times, and we are a healthy and profitable company unlike many of our competitors.
That being said I dont think everything is perfect in our airline, but I think its very sad that many of you who contribute to this forum use it to vent off frustration. Your behaviour hurts the airlines reputation, and makes it difficult to hire new employees that is needed for further growth, prosperity and wellbeing for all of us. It also creates an impression of EK that in my mind is simply not correct, this in turn hurts our public image and in the longterm such behaviour can hurt the companys profitabillity and as a consequence your job security. We are a community and we should let disagreements within stay within, and I think negative contributors about EK on this forum should think more about that. It would be much more productive if you tried to take your complaints to the manager in charge of the area you have problems with. They try to do a good job and is open minded to your feedback and wants to run the best possible airline, which I assume that you want as well. |
I think the Middle East Management videos answer those questions and concerns Manathemanagement.
|
Dear Mana,
I absolutely agree, Emirates will continue to be the fastest growing airline in the world. It is because no one in the developed wolrd can hire slaves. What do you get for AED 700 in this world, a w###e for a night, if you are in the Far East? Emirates middle managers get less than baggage handlers in Europe. Yes it will grow because slavery is acceptable here, and there are too many starving people in the world to abuse. Regardless of how many of us bi##h here, it will make no differance to the growth of Emirates, so do not worry my friend. You will always have a great job, while your fellow co workers are Fu##ed for AED 700 a month. |
Mana Dubai!!!! Hey this is not some 3rd world country like Myanmar or Zimbabwe! Everyone has the right just like you, however telling people what to say and write is akin to censorship and a dictatorial regime. Very simple if you don't like what you see , don't look and if you don't like what you read start a new anti PPrune website and get everyone to boycott PPrune. Its your right but don't come here and play the high and almighty!
|
Dubai's status
Dubai is indeed Third World, a medieval cesspit with a superficial Western make-over. Everyone knows that.;)
|
@ManaDubai
They try to do a good job and is open minded to your feedback Your behaviour hurts the airlines reputation, and makes it difficult to hire new employees Anyway, with your attitude you could become a perfect EK management tool....or are you already? :E btw...heard of freedom of opinion lately? :ugh: |
ManaDubai AKA.........??? Bless.... do you not like our comments, maybe if EK had the decency to stop screwing us around we wouldn't complain.
"Take your complaints to your manager", Dude you are living in some parallel universe! They couldn't give a sh*t about our comments or morale. It's your first post here so I suspect you are a management stooge/brown noser or you haven't suceeded with your previous handle poss ManaAdasystem? |
It would be much more productive if you tried to take your complaints to the manager in charge of the area you have problems with Fatigue: We've told you there's a problem, we submit ASRs, you do a 'study' which you then ignore. You order aircraft with inadequate rest facilities then boll**k us for walking to the coffins in our PJs. We make a decision on the line which is constantly second guessed by management who hide behind a desk because they don't want to fly the insane rosters, over controlling and woefully under-supporting. You sack pilots without any due process or even compassion in some cases. You arbitrarily change terms and conditions, reduce contractual pay entitlements, increase flight times whilst reducing rest, evict us from accommodation at short notice to move to the cheaper stuff you've managed to find. The list goes on but all of the above YOU, the management, are fully aware of and have done sweet FA about. Why? It costs! That's why we are so 'profitable' because you have failed to invest in your infrastructure in the pursuit of profit... the short term gain and now here's the long term pain. Everything behind the glossy facade in EK is on the cheap & it is unsustainable. Do you really think anyone has any faith in 'taking their problem to a manager' who cannot make any decision without fearing for his own job? It just never gets us anywhere. There is no 'trust' anymore as you have abused it so often. All smiles and graces at the road-shows and interviews then once you are here (committed you and your family to a completely different way of life, left any job security you may have had), you cynically spout the EK mantra 'if you don't like it leave'. And now you want to give the impression that we are some kind of cooperative, that we're all in it together while WE make record profits for YOU in the good and bad times but you still scr*w us into the ground. The truth is out there and do not blame the pilots for the bad press YOU have created. YOU have painted yourselves in to a corner, Catch 22; Pilots are less inclined to join and more than a few are looking to leave. To address the fatigue issue in particular you need to have more pilots, not just enough to cover the line flights but enough to have some flex and reduce rosters to a more humane lower cap. However without improving the Ts & Cs YOU have eroded you won't get them. Those still here will work even harder and the problems will escalate. The solution to all of this is with YOU not us. PPrune is the symptom not the cause, YOU are! As soon as YOU come to terms with this the sooner we might actually move forward. Our business model has proven to be sustainable even in difficult times, and we are a healthy and profitable company unlike many of our competitors. |
Mana, I fly down the road. I thought like you......tell management the problem and how they aren't honoring the contract. Show them studies about fatigue and how it harms the safety of flight to have us flying nights then days. Guess what, They don't care. I am finding it's the way of the Middle East. No one gives a Rats A@% as long as its not happening to them or their still getting their pay. If EK is worried about the reputation maybe they should change the practices of management.
|
allaru
allaru,
Thank you for your post, your information was very helpful and stopped me from making a big mistake. |
I was going to write a long post about the appearance of a new PPRuNer called Mana Dubai.... I deleted the long text and decided to say
"Mana Dubai is either very brave, or very stupid for trying to expound the virtues of EK on these forums" 'Nuff said! |
manadubai,
you must be Deaf,D*mb and Blind.The only other option is management with your head in the sand...see above. |
Mana, welcome to PPrune, as you can now see it can be a brutal place at times where some posters like to eat their young. I am sure your comments were meant to be genuine but they portrayed an ignorance of the current situation. Our management (you), have detailed access to what makes the pilot group tick. Files and files of data gathered from our recruitment, from the psych interviews we complete each time we change a position. So I have to ask, knowing all this, why are you so surprised by our reactions to the forced negative changes over the recent years? Didn't anyone think to ask the army of HR staff what will be the reaction?
Another pilot at a meeting I attended last year made an interesting point that I will try and correctly recall . He noted how the pilot group are infact not part of the EK community at all. They are more an "absent workforce" who come and go through the basement of the bouncy castle (EGHQ) with little if any interaction with the rest of the company. They interact more with station managers down route than with their own Fleet Managers. Pilots are told that their positon is an integral part of the company management structure when this is simply not the case. A pilot takes no part in any management process outside his cockpit. This work environment (absent) leads the pilot group to mistrust and resent their managers. This is brought about by the isolation and lack of involvement in anything that has to do with their continued employment conditions. How can you not see this? Is this not taught at Airline Management 101? You are right about one thing, this is not unique to EK, it is common with other airlines as well. Would'nt it be encouraging if EK managment actually did something about it. So now you have all the negative posts on PPrune, but it wasn't always that way. As a new Ppruner you will not remember that pre circa 2003, negative comments were few and far between and this Forum was a great recruitment add for EK. If a pilot asked what EK was like, the reply was quite simply, "no one leaves". I don't like the negative comments, I want to feel some pride when I tell another airline pilot that I work for EK, but I'm afraid to say that they have a bit of a laugh at me these days. So the next time you are overlooking the Atrium to get a glimpse of your favourite Bollywood star, or a sponsored Premier League football team or to see if there is a free table at Costa so you can chat with other collegues in the EK community, have a thought for the worker ants passing through the basement to and from their aircraft 24/7. Community? I took a 15% pay cut last year to help the company, how much did you give up? |
PJ - that sir is beautifully put and very eloquent:ok::ok:
|
Hear, hear.
TM PS. Particularly liked the last bit, about the pay aspect to help the company (and, as I recall, to show that Flt Ops were leading the way and setting the example) - still waiting to see what pain the rest of the company's equally sharing, apart from working harder. |
Mana, there's a great quote from the current Economist for those who would shoot the messengers instead of addressing the issues:
YOU CAN'T BLAME THE MIRROR FOR YOUR UGLY FACE! Emirates and Dubai have massive spin machines backed by endless money to try and portray the image they want to. It doesn't change the reality behind the image. |
Hey Roy Hudd,
When did you get down here mate? That's quite a statement about the place :rolleyes: |
To those of you who have answered my post in a productive and respectable way, thank you.
I am totally supporting freedom of speech, but freedom of speech does not mean to say whatever you think about your employer at all times, especially when there are better and more adequate ways of dealing with your problems than voicing them in a internet forum. I have now read through most recent EK threads, and find it troubling that while you are criticizing me for trying to correct EKs image on this forum, the majority of contributors to this forum acts like a bullying mob whenever it comes a EK employee (ore others) who voice a positive opinion about the company and how it is to work there. That is not good conduct, and I find it ironic that the same people are raising the freedom of speech flag if anyone dares to challenge their worldview. I have been accused of being a paid slave (EKBemused) and living life in luxury, not giving up anything for the community (Praise Jebus). All EK staff is paid competitive wages to attract the best people to our airline. Many who works in EKs management department are expats just like yourself who come here to get a standard of living and possibilities that are better than home. EK is a company that has one thing in common with all other companies around the world. It exists to make a profit for its shareholders. Companies who don’t follow that logic are doomed for bankrupt ion unless they are subsidized by their owners. Unlike many of our European competitors Ek, does not and will not receive any subsidizes and therefore has to be a profitable company to survive and ensure its long-term survival. If EK didn’t do this they would not be able to offer anyone safe and secure jobs. To ensure this we have all had to accept some sacrifices in the last difficult years. I see that you are displeased about the capping of your energy allowance, this change applies to everyone and we are all in this together. In all honesty I can’t understand how you think it’s fair that everyone should pay for a few peoples largesse and shedding. Would you rather like this money to be saved elsewhere? EK is trying its best to operate a great airline that passengers enjoy to fly with, and that employees enjoy to work for, but when times are though and cuts needs to be taken then we all have to bear our share of the burden. The reason that I was voicing my opinion is that I felt that the image created of EK at this forum does not resemble the real EK I experience every day. My impression is that most of EKs employees are very happy with their jobs, and that they are proud of what we have achieved and how far we have come. Regarding your comments about EKs management I am very disappointed of the views you are expressing. Just like you EKs management is just people. Just like you EKs management wants to do a good job. Just like you EKs management wants to run a great airline. In order to achieve this EKs management understands that it needs its pilots, cabin crew and ground staff to have good working conditions and competitive compensation. Despite some adjustments in the recent years, there is no doubt that what EK has to offer is highly competitive in the international market, and it will continue to be so to ensure the further growth and profitability of EK. |
DXB comments.
Been down DXB a few times. Also got a few mates at EK, who have been there for years, and they have shaped my opinion. I'm talking about the locals and their laws, along with the absence of protection for the mass of overseas workers. I'm particularly critical of the way lower-paid immigrant workers are treated. Which is starting to include aircrew.
Don't be offended, dustyprops; my comments are echoed around these threads. (And there are some good bits to Dubai too, to be fair) |
Nice...
Praise Jebus......:ok:That was beautiful man!
|
Come on???
Mana,
What shareholders? It seems that the only one that profits when we profit is upper management. As far as our employees making as much as other, HA! You need to get out more often and ask around the world. The mere wages paid to our rampers and other ground staff would have them on welfare in most countries. However, I do understand that the pay they receive is more than they would get in most of their home countries, but don't compare apples to oranges, at least not here. Remeber most of us and the peolpe who read this are semi-educated. Maybe everyone you run into your office is happy, but, if h*ll freezes over and someday we get a jumpseat back, I will meet you at 3 am going to India and I would like to introduce you to 16 or so people who are very representative of the real work force that holds this place together, don't get me wrong, alot of people keep this place going, but without these 16 people on every flight, there would be no flight. A previous post said there was no negative post before 2003, I think, well only 3.5 years ago there wasn't any either. This forums has been a place for some crap to flow, but the truth is sometimes hard to handle, isn't it. I hope you are management and take some of this information you read on here to someone that can help us. We came here because it was great and we use to tell all our friends about it. But for now we just can't. When there are so many companys offering commuting rosters, and don't tell me we couldn't. What can you offer someone these days? A contract that seems to be worthless. Rosters that make us all fly around like zombies??? Please give us something.....Oh yeah job security you say. Is that worth you health..Please make this like it use to be... Thanks, I now yeild to my next colleague.:ugh: Fly safe everyone...and get plenty of rest! |
Surely folks, Mana and his/her posts is a wind up!
Nobody in management could be that far detached from the reality to really think that things here are rosy......??? |
Watchdog: I haven't said that EK was perfect, but just as the world isn't black ore white neither is EK, and this forum seem to only give a one sided negative view of EK that is not correct.
Taylor01: I haven't said that EK ground staff are paid the same as they are in W.Europe/USA, I have said that they pay all their staff competitive wages. If BA/United and so on could hire highly qualified personell with lower wages they would, same applies for EK. There is no doubt to the fact that pilots, cabin crew and ground staff is essential and play an extremly important role in any airline, and that the airline would stop imideatly if it wasnt for them. In the same way there is no doubt that without management any airline would stop. EK is not interested in using anymore money on management than needed, and implying that all management do is going to the SPA and taking your money is just downright stupid. |
Well, tell us, Mana: Are you flying? Or are you in the office? Because it seems you don´t have a clue what´s going on. And then please tell me how I can see my children back home with max. 3 days off in a row? I used to until 2 years ago when everything started going south. I was a good company man, but did it help me or my fellow colleagues? NO! So no more good company man, as sad as it is. You need to get your facts right, just because other jobs are worse than ours doesn´t make the constant contract breaches right. :ugh:
|
If BA/United and so on could hire highly qualified personell with lower wages they would, same applies for EK. Why not address the other issues mentioned Mana? 78 to 94 hour rosters, less rest, fatigue, less pay (lower than the low you mentioned), no rights, no support... there's plenty to discuss on this forum and your input would be of great interest as it is obvious you are being told to come here and try and offer a more positive spin. |
Mana
You say that we all share the burden of the utilities cap... sorry to disappoint you but it's only a very small percentage of people that are affected, only because they have no choice as to where they live. If we're all in this together then why doesnt everyone pay a small equal amount towards reducing the utility bill? That would be fair. Secondly, if the managers are all just doing their jobs, I say that they should all be let go - they have destroyed morale of most of the workforce in this company by outdated and middle age rule by fear practice. They have done this wilfully and without any consideration or interest for the consequences of their actions. Anywhere else in the world a breach of contract would not be allowed - here the attitude is - if you don't like it - leave! Well, many are...... Now they come begging us to recommend our friends, and when we say why would we , we get told if you don't like it, leave! guess what. Many are!!!!!! Most of what is wrong with this company could be fixed in a day WITH NO COST TO THE COMPANY. But even with a complete management change (when oinks will fly!!) it would take a long long time to build up any trust again. HOW SAD TO SEE......... So Mana, take off your very dark glasses and take a good hard look around you, I think you might just get a fright, because you certainly don't work for the same company I do! Safe Flying all J |
I have now repeatedly made it clear that not everything is perfect at EK, and that problems regarding EK should be taken up with the appropriate manager in charge, not on an internet forum. If you think that writing things at pprune will change how EK operates you are naive.
Yes it is true that due to the difficult economic times the world and as a result EK has been going through the last couple of years, some adjustments to employees compensation has been made. This has been necessary and just measures to reduce costs and ensure EKs long term survival. The adjustment made to employee’s compensation is as far as I am concerned in line with UAE law, and does not breach any contracts. If you disagree on that point you should take your complaints to the legal system. However the compensation package offered by EK today is still good by international standards. It is also true that turnover of personnel has gone up at EK recently; this must be seen as a natural development when the world economy is starting to improve. In the last five years EK has doubled the number of passengers carried, and been through a rapid expansion. It is totally natural that some employees get frustrated with how the airline operates when it goes through a period of such rapid expansion. EK has always relied on its employees to be based in Dubai, and its rosters are made up with that predicament in mind. EK understands that if all other factors are equal between EK and your native airlines you would choose to work for them, and that some people decide to quit is perfectly normal. EK is hiring more staff at the moment to ensure further growth and addressing the issues you are raising, but when people spread negative publicity about EK that is either exaggerated ore simply not true you make the airlines growth difficult, and you make your own job harder. |
Mana
I have been comtemplating flying for Emirates for some time. I have a lot of friends there and in the past years they were happy, and proud to fly there. Almost all of them have contacted me to warn me of the change of conditions there, that the postings here are the reality of what's going on. I've basically been told that unless I'm umemployed and desperate, not to consider it. I have worked in the Middle East before and knew how things worked but it seemed things were different there, no so it seems.
I have several friends whom have also withdrawn applications and under no circumstances would consider employment at Emerates under the current conditions. I sincerely hope that the lack of qualified applicants, and the shortage of pilots for expansion will wake someone up over there. I wish everybody there good luck in getting things changed. Maybe if/when they start cancelling flights and pilots start leaving in droves things will improve. |
I just cannot believe that the only way to communicate and have any kind of dialogue of any form with Ek management is now through Pprune.
What a shambles. Is it any wonder this company is heading for rock bottom. Mana, You are a disgrace. |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 17:35. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.