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No Surprise
Zick
Are you surprised??? we always hear promises, promises, promises but nothing ever gets delivered.:rolleyes: We are already losing some great people. Not only pilots, but in HQ as well. :( |
New Package
Ok, so the letter is in our box at OCC. Anybody nearby to tell us what we actually got??
:D |
No Loss of License or Overtime Pay
Then at the end of the month, when it really counts, the boys at EK will still be about 10,000AED happier than those at EY. Somebody has to fund the new " golden country club' compound in Khalifa City I guess:{
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Khalifa Country Club
I hear that those Five bedroom villas are really nice. A bit more spacious than Khalifa B!:*
Well located and a pool is coming. |
The new package is on the Etihad careers website.
Looks good to me as I was already content with the old package but as always there will be some who will never be happy no matter what the package. |
yes good way!! but no overtime :{
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ETIHAD New PayPackage
Long waited package from Insh Allah Airways aka ETIHAD!!
I've just compared what I will earn in March with old and New... Guess what.. ONLY 1,400 AED Better off per month (if you lucky)!!!:confused: I got kids in school, no increase there!! still outta pocket by at least 15, 000 AED yearly! :ugh: Oh well... I suppose it's down to the EVPO to crew the aircraft as stated in the OMA, If he fails to do that, then I'm affraid he's gotta go!! regardless of the dress wearing folk upstairs who don;t really wanna match the package to their cousins down the road! |
Eh?
The Cayenne bit and restaurants might be true but "You forgot our fantastic 5 bedrooms villas with swimming pool on the corniche, here we have the best accomodation available on the market."! Thought there were big poblems with accomodation and loss of licence might be coming but not aware of it being there yet?! |
I think it called irony. I heard EY are about to announce basing and commuting rosters.
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I think it called irony. I heard EY are about to announce basing and commuting rosters. Nothing wrong living in Abu Dhabi or working at Etihad, not perfect but then show me where is. |
Time to command.
Talking to a colleague today about new deal. They reckon it is good for F/Os but not so good for Captains and by the sounds of it still not up with EK!
Also had anyone got any idea on times to command at the moment? If there is a freeze on expansion/deliveries that will slow things down a lot. 5 Bedroom Villas? Are these the ones being built out by the airport or the purchase scheme nearer downtown? |
With all the positive developments going on in EY (improvement of package, expansion programs, etc), I am now more than inclined to join this company.
What with man's insatiable appetite, for sure there will always be happy and unhappy people. But as they say, it's impossible to please everybody. Nevertheless, I am looking forward to expanding my horizon, and EY seems to be holding a bright future for anyone hoping to have a better life and a good career. I am about to embark on a life-changing decision, and with a bagful of hopes and dreams, I am now ready to fly high in EY. To all those who responded to my queries, I give my deepest gratitude for all your sound advise. I have weighed things carefully, and without your inputs and advise, I know that I couldn't have come up with a better decision. Safe flight everyone! Ma salama! |
Djuggler,
You won't regret your decision, I haven't looked back one day since joining Etihad. Its far better than I expected and far far better than my previous so called Major Airline. I think some need to remember that they happily signed up to the previous package when they joined Etihad. Now they are in essence getting a pay rise, granted not huge, purely because of a pilot shortage and in no way because they are entitled to one and yet still complain. I just wonder how much money would be enough to keep these people happy thats if they even consider their own happiness over income. Djuggler good luck in Etihad. Hope to meet up one day. Its great fun and rewarding working here as you will soon see. |
djuggler
You sound like management disguising themselves on this thread as a rookie trying to sell pilots this deal. := Once a used car salesman, always a used car salesman! I will stick with "the other major airline" thanks At least they have yearly BONUSES! |
think carefully...for FOs
To all guys joining as co-pilots.....beware. As you know from previous posts, not all is what it seems in Etihad. A word of caution for your consideration. In the new salary scheme, the FO's salary was increased substantially for a good reason. The management already know that airplane deliveries will stop after 2008. With that, upgrades will also stop accordingly and the amount of upgrades that they expect to do will just barely cover the existing co-pilots already in the company. Hence any new joiners will can only reasonably expect an upgrade in 2012 or later when more planes arrive.
The current guys slotted in for upgrade is already delayed as they can't spare anymore FOs to cater for the ones being upgraded. I wish you best of luck to consider your move carefully.....:hmm: |
Not much of a package
Just ran much numbers and raise for me is at only a few percent rise, with less of penalty for holiday. One captain say inflation is runing over 25 percent year in Abu Dhabi, while housing going up more than this. With anual rise in following year only 700 durhams (200USD) month, cost of living will grow much, much faster than your salary. EK is still paying more when one consider living provision, which is a major problem in AUH unless you will live in apratment and don't mind children playing by busy hiways. Villas expensive and company one still away.
Watch roster also. With no cost for company to have you on standby, it could be quite problem. I am already 23 days on roster sometimes. Also many concerned about medical coverage being very restrictive and no limit on how much per anum you can pay if they will not cover problem. Many pages of exclusion conditions and people having to pay common charges that were covered under old plan, but now not because of new insurance company. Working for Etihad not to bad, but not to good either. Hotels we are provided on night stops not near to EK. Crew Control is out of Control and often do not know regulations and will ask you to fly even when not legal. Also for first officers, only few more planes coming here, so there will be less opportunity to upgrade if you sign now. In the next year EK is getting more a/c than we have. Also, if you are not in with people of power it will be harder for you to get command, as your performance is not only factor considered. To me it seems that Asians have easier time here than Westerners. Those of us who worked in past in Europe and other places find this very unorganized and still see many problems here that are not being managed compared with rate we have grown. I can see nothing in future that will make this a desireable place to work. We will be less able to save any money since cost are increasing here so fast. Anyway, some other airlines may be worse but many other comprable or better. Consider your decison carefully. |
Hard Facts about Etihad Pay review!
Etihad management have certainly misjudged the whole thing.
Moral is at an all time low as a result of below industry standard pay scales, no pension scheme or loss of licence, very poor private health care cover and substandard housing in comparison with other gulf Carriers. Many Etihad pilots have been hanging on waiting to see if the pay rise would be worth staying for. I fully expect to see many pilots actively looking to move on after all there are plenty of jobs out there. Now the Basic salary has been increased to 33000 with a 50 dhs per flying hour allowance and off duty away from base allowance of 23dhs per hour maximum to Minimum of 12dhs per hour depending on where your layover. This is obviously better as you get a higher basic when you are on leave or off sick. However there is no daily rate nor payment for standby or ground course except simulator training. Etihad claim that this represents a 7.7% rise based on a Captain year 1 flying 75 hours a month and 3 nights away from base. Except that over the last 12 months a Captain never averages 75 hours more like 50 however does average around 20 – 22 duty days a month so you get around 14000 -15400 in duty pay added to a year 1 Basic of 23000 which gives an average monthly salary 37000 – 38400. Take into account leave days and possible sick time average salary over 12 months is around 34000. First Officers salary has increased from a year 1 Basic of 16400 to 24500 and 40 dhs per flying hour. Etihad recon that’s 16.8 % Ok it is a pay rise but still be lagging behind Industry standard. It barley covers you for what your have lost in your salary each month due to the de-value of UAE Dirham which is pegged to the USD against the strong Euro and Sterling. Not to mention the soaring inflation in the UAE around 28 % What you don’t get is No Pension Scheme No Loss of Licence No transport to / from work (like in Emirates) No Currency exchange rate protection No descent housing oh but they are negotiating some villas that are quite frankly Sh*t which are so remote they are 50 km from downtown Abu Dhabi, shops and schools. They might as well be on the Lunar Surface. Expected time for command upgrades has slowed right down as no more expansion after the end of this year. Time to command? possibly 3- 4 years |
Waste of time
Waiting and waiting and waiting for the good news...........
and now! what a waste of time! is that what they call new package? new management but still the same old thing. their mentality is, give them bit by bit, they will stay, they will come and at the same time we can cut cost. but our (management people) pay must be a lot, i mean a lot, because we (management people) not gonna be around for a long time. when things goes bad we just resign with good bonus. if you guys out there with a good job, don't even think of applying or consider somewhere else where the management is mature enough. living in abu dhabi is not that wonderful, you will find many things here is not normal practice as other countries. process in doing things is troublesome. MC :ugh: |
Djuggler good luck in Etihad. Hope to meet up one day. Its great fun and rewarding working here as you will soon see. You sound like management disguising themselves on this thread as a rookie trying to sell pilots this deal. := I am, however, disappointed by your negativity trying to scare people like me to come and join etihad. But no matter what other people say, I have made up my mind and I am going there to join you. I hope one day we'll get to fly together, and no matter how bad you feel about EY, still you can count on me to make our flight nice and enjoyable. ;) Safe flight though, csek. Wish you all the best, and of course happiness in this world. |
And don't say that I did not tell you!!!!:\
Some choose not to listen, others pretend, the rest, suffer. Abu Dhabi + Ignorant management = Ignorant airline unfit for animal consumption, let alone human consumption. Dobra Sreca H&S:cool: |
djuggler
I am, however, disappointed by your negativity trying to scare people like me to come and join etihad. The only way we are going to fly together is if you join the other boys up the road. Im not saying its perfect, but having a Pension Scheme, Loss of Licence protection, transport to / from work, Currency exchange rate protection, descent housing, descent medical and yearly bonuses made my mind up on which one to choose. I thought we were being screwed, but after talking to my mates down the road in EY, there is no comparison to which one is better deal! Maybe you should think just that little bit harder. Good luck to you whatever you choose! |
Csek, I guess we can never tell which way is good for one, and which way is bad for the others. Either way, I respect whatever decision you may have made, just as I hope you will respect mine. This is the path I have chosen, and I am happy with it. I take it that you're with EK, so my apologies for thinking that you're with EY.
And once again, I am not from management, and nobody coerced me in any way to choose EY. I guess there is nothing wrong for anybody to hope for a better career for himself and a good future for his family. Chill out, bro, and goodluck to you. |
Too late for me... I just completed my interviews and got the job in Etihad! Guess I'm just going to have to take the payrise.. even before I start!
Seriously though, for those of us looking to move from wherever we are to improve our lot, this sure changes what is available. I have read that Abu Dhabi plans to invest a lot of money (Billions) into developing it's infrastruture, so that does give some security to the job in Etihad. Anyway, one very happy chappy on his way to start with you soon. :O |
Tips for Abu-Dhabi
:cool:
For those Bus and Boeing drivers wishes to join EY and planning to live in AUH below is few tips; Always look after Number one because Number 2 and 3 will be automatically taken care of. Stick to your Guns when you negotiate your package ( they need you more than you need them), those German and Aussies are tough fellows they want to have the cake and eat it too, you do the hard work and they take the credit. at the end of the day NO one will force you to make any decision you do not want to make.
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New pay package is good for the FOs, since they are trying to attract more....Captains on A330 will probably end up with a small increase as mentioned above but, 777 and especially 767 drivers (Captains) will probably end up loosing. 777 now have no European destinations and as such low meal allowances while the 767 guys have only turn arounds. BIG CUT!!
Housing is great if you can fit in a 3 Br flat but, if you have 3 or more kids you still have to pay out of your pocket as Etihad does not seem to care about people who have LARGER families. It is a good place to be but it varies from person to person based on family size, seat and fleet as to how good/bad your package is. Medical is also poor. Too many exclusions and pre approvals required. Loss of licence is back on the drawing board after being almost a done deal with the previous management. WHAT NEXT? THE SAGA CONTINUES. |
Fellas now you had to bite the dust. It's a never ending story. Me is last corner I'd ever go again. Those Bedouins have all the money in the world bu t don't they don't you to live a live. You're a slave, a simple driver with the difference that their drivers sleep under the stairs and you in the 3 bed room apartment. Anyone still seeking the job in ME is nuts. Let them hire all the cheap fellas from the third world. Stay out of that mess.
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..Except that over the last 12 months a Captain never averages 75 hours more like 50... MR8 |
The New Math
I have just done the math comparing last years salary to the new pay scale.
When adding up all of last years pay stubs I made 427 500 aed. On the New scale calculating in the base pay and hours I flew it would come to 433 399 AED. A raise of 5899 AED or 1.3% per year not the stated 7.7% from management. Also we are no longer paid for ground training, standby or medicals. So for an extra 1.3% they get an extra 40 or so days of work for free per year. You cant count per diem as a raise. Per diem is to pay my meals when away from home, not my mortgage or pension plan. Aparently this is "comparable to the best of those offered by our regional competitors and major international airlies". |
European Bedouins
:=
Flying Daggers; "Those Bedouins have all the money in the world but t don't they don't you to live a live. You're a slave" I have to disagree with you on that one Flying Daggers, The Airline purely managed by the European Bedouins i.e The German, The British, The Australian, Believe me they the one setting up the rules and regulation and how much you should get paid or not, and not to mention the Asian-Indian. I do not know if you really Know the Board structure for EY Airline and the Maintenance side of it. I assure you 99% of them are European. However I do agree with you on the way they treat their drivers, servant etc. The ME especially in that part of the world is not a place to live in but to make money and get out ( if you manage to make money that is).This is why In my previous post I mentioned the place is not cheap to live in!!!! It is however great place to live in for the Asian or the Philippine people, especially when you look at the standard and the cost of living they come from. Also most European do not take the Cra..:mad: ..P like they do, Why???? because they do not have the same choice as us who lives in Europe or else where, where there is Union to fight for your right or a law to protect you and your family. When you in that part of the region forget your right or union. do not mention it otherwise they think you are joking:ok: |
As long as all the Gulf airlines continue to have applications that satisfy their recruitment standards, they will not change a bit of their contracts. The may make adjustments to make more linear, but that will be it.
Recruitment standards may not correspond to QUALITY standards, but this problem (and the problem definitely exist) is up to the respective Civil Aviation (Civ Airs) authorities to ensure safe standards are always applied and checked. If the latter is inefficient, these airlines will be heading for big trouble sooner rather than later. Nothing new here. Every airline must and ought to have a safe flying platform. Unfortunately, senior management is more concerned about FY results rather than ensuring safety standards are rigorously enforced. Apologies for going off track and with no disrespect to those capable guys without a previous chance to fly in the Gulf majors and willing to do so, the point here is: Airlines will either offer more to attract experienced (and company tested/screened) staff or they will have to slow down their expansion plans to get their "house in order" before a major incident/accident happens. Pretending everything is OK will be counter-productive, very irresponsible and will lead to a major disaster, financial too. Respective Civ Airs are equally irresponsible and must not/ought not to be indifferent to these ever evolving events. Unfortunately, the aviation world (among other worlds) is full of irresponsible managements, and mankind generally needs and effective "policing" tool to ensure very basic and uncompromising standards are never overruled by irresponsible people. Again, apologies for going off track from the second paragraph onwards but I found the topic somehow related and relevant. |
You are right on track
:p
fractional; You are right on the track, The problem now these days no body seems to care about standard any more or safety for that matter. The sad things about the Airline or the aviation industry they always come back and trying to rectify the problem when the Sh....:mad: ...t hit the fan. I do not know what they expect " if you pay peanuts you get Monkies":ugh: |
The New Math
I have just done the math comparing last years salary to the new pay scale.
When adding up all of last years pay stubs I made 427 500 aed. On the New scale calculating in the base pay and hours I flew it would come to 433 399 AED. A raise of 5899 AED or 1.3% per year not the stated 7.7% from management. Also we are no longer paid for ground training, standby or medicals. So for an extra 1.3% they get an extra 40 or so days of work for free per year. They count per diem as a pay raise.You can not count per diem as a raise. Per diem is to pay my meals when away from home, not to my mortgage or pension plan. If they think you are pocketing meal allowances they will cut them.Therefore not a raise. Aparently this is "comparable to the best of those offered by our regional competitors and major international airlies". |
dont forget one thing
Your calculations are just about what I see. Also if you have already have some of your holiday, then you have been penalized, as the major improvment was that you did not lose so much when you went on leave.
This was very clever of management. Wait until April and then implement it. I imagine most people already had some leave. Also the 767 guys had all of Feb off and forced to take some leave time while the a/c was on ground. Good news is next year when there 1.8 percent pay rise comes they can make it back. One other point is that EY has no protection for currency shifts, like EK does. The Durhams is based directly on the US dollar. So not only is inflation here hurting you greatly, but the dollar is very weak. The overall philosophy seems to be give them the least possible and hope people don't leave and alway say more is in your future. EY housing is one of the lowest in Abu Dhabi, making it very difficult to afford anything than company appartment, some are okay Overall with only 700dhms payrise a year in contract, there is very little future at Etihad. With the dollar sinking and inflation so much it is only a matter of time till it will cost you money to work here, which is a management dream. |
Flying Daggers
You're a slave, a simple driver with the difference that their drivers sleep under the stairs and you in the 3 bed room apartment. However I do agree with you on the way they treat their drivers, servant etc A good friend once told told me that, in the UAE you are just a well paid labourer (if that!!!). We have exactly the same rights and those poor guys on the building sites. the only difference is the place where we work. |
Gents,
you are absolutely right...the new package is bs start looking around cheers:sad: |
Yes it is crap and very few will be better off.....on the 777 we will certainly be worse off:{
All the hype leading upto this package was BS, they obviously think we are stupid Time to start looking around :ok: |
Compared to GF that's a pretty good package for an F/O..almost 1000 BHD more a month that our base....could always be worse. Seems that Captains didn't get as good as a deal, but from what i can see it's competitive at least.
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wow !!
Amazing !! Simply Amazing !! This place is too good to be true, quite the mirror image of EK, So now we see people threatening to leave. I wonder what the ratio of peple bitching will be as to how many people will actually leave will, only time will tell.......................:eek:
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This is hilarious. Anyone who thinks that the average Etihad pilot is driving around in a Porsche Cayenne is living in cloud cuckoo land.
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Well, I've seen :
Porsche Cayenne Porsche 911 BMW 5 series Mercedes 'E' VW Tuaoreg Volvo XC90 Nissan Murano BMW B3 Alpina BMW M3 Mercedes 'S' Audi A6 and many many more ltypes of uxury cars driven by Etihad pilots. |
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