Emirates and the A380 (threads merged)
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Re: EK: Direct Entry Onto A380
What the company are trying to achieve by having DEC's on the 380 is mostly about salaries. They are struggling at present to attract people with the current package and are running out of smoke screens to present under the guise of "the package".
What DEC's onto the 380 will do is attract some guys who probably wouldn't have come to fly a 777 for the salary that EK offer. But may come to finish off their career on the 380.
Just another attempt to keep "the package" at 3rd world levels for another year or two.
What DEC's onto the 380 will do is attract some guys who probably wouldn't have come to fly a 777 for the salary that EK offer. But may come to finish off their career on the 380.
Just another attempt to keep "the package" at 3rd world levels for another year or two.
Re: EK: Direct Entry Onto A380
If I were a betting man, I would say that most of the f/o's on the fat bitch will be new hires, DEC's on the other hand , well don't think Airbus would be too happy about it, as far as I know Airbus only want experienced 340 pilots to fly there baby for a while, just incase......remember nothing can go wrong with fly,fly,fly,fly
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Re: EK: Direct Entry Onto A380
Experienced A340 pilots? Where are they going to come from? SQ? CX? VS? AF? LH? The only one I can think of is possible SAA. Any other suggestions?
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Re: EK: Direct Entry Onto A380
Since when have airbus dictated how airlines will crew their aircraft.
Obviously for the first half dozen or so they will have to use EK crews (Captains anyway) in order to establish the SOP's and operating culture. Plus i believe that Airbus have indicated that they will only train 340 qualified guys at Toulouse for the first couple of aircraft. Once that is done, and training is in house again, it will be open slather with new hire F/O's (just like it was on the 777 and 330 when they were new) and all the DEC's they can get.
Another point that makes DEC's the obvious choice is the amount of training it saves. If you move a 340 guy over, you will have a 380 transition a 340 CCQ and upgrade on the 330 an F/O transition on the 330 and the 380.
By my calculation that's 5 guys who have to be trained. Direct entries will reduce the training by more than 50%.
Am i the only one here who thinks that EK makes most operational decisions based largely on cost?
Obviously for the first half dozen or so they will have to use EK crews (Captains anyway) in order to establish the SOP's and operating culture. Plus i believe that Airbus have indicated that they will only train 340 qualified guys at Toulouse for the first couple of aircraft. Once that is done, and training is in house again, it will be open slather with new hire F/O's (just like it was on the 777 and 330 when they were new) and all the DEC's they can get.
Another point that makes DEC's the obvious choice is the amount of training it saves. If you move a 340 guy over, you will have a 380 transition a 340 CCQ and upgrade on the 330 an F/O transition on the 330 and the 380.
By my calculation that's 5 guys who have to be trained. Direct entries will reduce the training by more than 50%.
Am i the only one here who thinks that EK makes most operational decisions based largely on cost?
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Re: EK: Direct Entry Onto A380
Only operational decisions? Show me one decision that EK have made in the last 10 years that involved paying a little extra dosh to get a little extra quality. EK = Adequacy at minimum cost.
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Re: EK: Direct Entry Onto A380
Wonder if anybody in EK management realises what they are creating.
As they erode Ts & Cs and this includes the continuation of the DEC program, they make the company less attractive to both current and prospective employees. The best of these people will either leave or not apply. This is already happening as documented on this site.
In time the quality of the workforce may diminish to the point that few left are upgradable so the company will only be able to fill command slots with DECs.
A case of the worse it gets, the worse it will continue to get and could make the planned expansion unsustainable.
There are only so many BA/CX retirees who will want to come here. Whilst the pilot market is growing EK will soon appear so dire few others will be interested.
In part due to DECs EK is no longer a traditional employer of choice. In time this will work its way up to the consumer and EK will no longer be an airline of choice to the passenger.
Cancellation of flights around 25th December due crew shortages being an example of this.
The other long standing Gulf airline has been brought to its knees by mismanagement. It could happen here.
As they erode Ts & Cs and this includes the continuation of the DEC program, they make the company less attractive to both current and prospective employees. The best of these people will either leave or not apply. This is already happening as documented on this site.
In time the quality of the workforce may diminish to the point that few left are upgradable so the company will only be able to fill command slots with DECs.
A case of the worse it gets, the worse it will continue to get and could make the planned expansion unsustainable.
There are only so many BA/CX retirees who will want to come here. Whilst the pilot market is growing EK will soon appear so dire few others will be interested.
In part due to DECs EK is no longer a traditional employer of choice. In time this will work its way up to the consumer and EK will no longer be an airline of choice to the passenger.
Cancellation of flights around 25th December due crew shortages being an example of this.
The other long standing Gulf airline has been brought to its knees by mismanagement. It could happen here.
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Re: EK: Direct Entry Onto A380
<<Am i the only one here who thinks that EK makes most operational decisions based largely on cost?>>
More than likely.
Fact is, DEC's are nearly ALWAYS the least expensive in the long run, due mainly to training costs.
Is it 'fair' to those (especially co-pilots) already there?
No, not necessarily, but just where is it the regulations/employment contracts does it ever say what is fair...and what is not?
In the case of the 380, I would expect that EK will indeed choose a few of their own, and then mainly hire from outside, as the total flight deck crew numbers will not allow otherwise.
Airlines (and their managements, good or poor) will always make staffing decisions based on what is the most benefical for the company, NOT employees.
Like it or lump it, and I would certainly expect that most at EK will fall into the latter category.
Just the way it is, and not likely to change anytime soon.
More than likely.
Fact is, DEC's are nearly ALWAYS the least expensive in the long run, due mainly to training costs.
Is it 'fair' to those (especially co-pilots) already there?
No, not necessarily, but just where is it the regulations/employment contracts does it ever say what is fair...and what is not?
In the case of the 380, I would expect that EK will indeed choose a few of their own, and then mainly hire from outside, as the total flight deck crew numbers will not allow otherwise.
Airlines (and their managements, good or poor) will always make staffing decisions based on what is the most benefical for the company, NOT employees.
Like it or lump it, and I would certainly expect that most at EK will fall into the latter category.
Just the way it is, and not likely to change anytime soon.
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Re: EK: Direct Entry Onto A380
411a's viewpoint of aviation in the Gulf is historical. He assumes that by necessity history should repeat itself.
The start of EK's success coincided with an enlightened Head of Flight Operations determination to turn EK into a world class airline with world class attitudes and standards and move away from the baggage endorsed by his predecessors. Example: no fair seniority system in place until 1995.
These changes gave the company a direction missing until then. This direction is now showing clear signs of losing track as the changes introduced ten years ago are being dismantled with reversion to third world T's and C's and now attracting mainly third world applicants.
No slight to people from the third world intended. Third world background does not always mean third world standards, but you will get the picture.
411a gives the impression that he is from the 'small operator ' school of airline management. He does not see the way or need for change to allow a company to grow to be a world class player. EK is changing now, but back to how it was when it was an 'also ran'.
Small operator mentality only works when there is a carrot such as exceptional salary.
In EK all the carrots are being taken away.
The start of EK's success coincided with an enlightened Head of Flight Operations determination to turn EK into a world class airline with world class attitudes and standards and move away from the baggage endorsed by his predecessors. Example: no fair seniority system in place until 1995.
These changes gave the company a direction missing until then. This direction is now showing clear signs of losing track as the changes introduced ten years ago are being dismantled with reversion to third world T's and C's and now attracting mainly third world applicants.
No slight to people from the third world intended. Third world background does not always mean third world standards, but you will get the picture.
411a gives the impression that he is from the 'small operator ' school of airline management. He does not see the way or need for change to allow a company to grow to be a world class player. EK is changing now, but back to how it was when it was an 'also ran'.
Small operator mentality only works when there is a carrot such as exceptional salary.
In EK all the carrots are being taken away.
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Re: EK: Direct Entry Onto A380
Who the F@ck wants to go on the flying pig anyway, hold on for the B747-800 guys, now there's a real aeroplane!
Time to read Flt Int, from the back!
Time to read Flt Int, from the back!
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Re: EK: Direct Entry Onto A380
Hahaha that a good one...except that makes me a donkey...
I admit, I would like to fly the A380. Why not? I think a lot of people are being modest and playing it down. Just wait till it shows up next years...
About all that whinning. 4 years ago there were 35 aircraft and 570 pilots. Today there are about 80 aircraft and 1250 pilots. Obviously it is an attractive job for some. It was attractive to all of US, or we wouldnt have come. Things have changed over my four years. But those 15000 USD contracts are not easy to get.
Remember....the grass is only greener on top of a septic tank....
I admit, I would like to fly the A380. Why not? I think a lot of people are being modest and playing it down. Just wait till it shows up next years...
About all that whinning. 4 years ago there were 35 aircraft and 570 pilots. Today there are about 80 aircraft and 1250 pilots. Obviously it is an attractive job for some. It was attractive to all of US, or we wouldnt have come. Things have changed over my four years. But those 15000 USD contracts are not easy to get.
Remember....the grass is only greener on top of a septic tank....
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Re: EK: Direct Entry Onto A380
You got the green grass bit right for sure...gave up on the carrot on the stick while back, seems never did get the carrot, but sure got the stick!!! 
This is one crazy place.......................
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Ques. for Emirates Pilots about A380 Delivery
Emirates pilots , just interested when emirates receives its first A380 delivery. And who gets assigned to these aircraft? Do the senior A340 captains get put on these aircraft?
Will there be a second officer position on the A380 ?
cheers
Will there be a second officer position on the A380 ?
cheers
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Do the senior A340 captains get put on these aircraft?
Will there be a second officer position on the A380
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I think it can also be 330 only pilots , as the 330 is the base airplane and there are some senior 330 only guys.
Also I think the first 380 comes early in the new year does AUH ,DOH or BAR for @ a month to get the checkers checked
Also I think the first 380 comes early in the new year does AUH ,DOH or BAR for @ a month to get the checkers checked