Will Qatar Airways make it
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Will Qatar Airways make it
Inspired by the thread asking whether Gulf Air will make it or not. I would like to know what people think about Qatar Airways and its future. Will it reach a point where there will be no qualified people to run the airline, fly the planes and serve the passengers? and does anyone believe that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, you know with rumours of Al-Baker resigning and all? or will it all end?
Oh and a plea to all who reply (if any do
) , I don't want to know about how bad it is and don't want to read insults towards anyone can read these just by doing a quick search and the insults make people seem really childish.
Oh and a plea to all who reply (if any do
) , I don't want to know about how bad it is and don't want to read insults towards anyone can read these just by doing a quick search and the insults make people seem really childish.
Last edited by HF-in-Doha; 10th Mar 2003 at 15:58.
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Swashnob,
Never realised that grammar was a requirement for getting replies. I know if the post is no legible then of course no one will reply but I am sure people can understand the gist of what I wrote.
Back to the real issue. I am interested in knowing people's opinions particularly from those on the inside Goldstone, Dubash etc..
Never realised that grammar was a requirement for getting replies. I know if the post is no legible then of course no one will reply but I am sure people can understand the gist of what I wrote.
Back to the real issue. I am interested in knowing people's opinions particularly from those on the inside Goldstone, Dubash etc..
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QR will make it. The airline has very significant state backing, good routes, a new fleet and decent crews. Whatever anyone thinks about the boss, he lives and breathes his job and has dragged the airline up by its bootstraps (cue ritual tirade of abuse and accusations of stoolpigeon behaviour). He will move on to larger projects, and as QR gets bigger its management will become less, er, personalised. Is this a good thing? Hard to say at this stage......at least they are paying heed to their customers needs, unlike certain other carriers that spring to mind.
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They will make it when they start cleaning up all the internal affairs......
QR has a good shedule, an outstanding onboard service, a good commercial department, its beginning to establish a good name and reputation towards the customers etc....
I do believe we owe all of this to the vision of AAB ( when its good you have to say it as well)
Internally it is a big mess though so they will have to change that aspect very fast! At this stage the company is killing itself from the inside, its on auto destruct phase!
So they have to change that and they have to do it really fast.....NOW!
QR has a good shedule, an outstanding onboard service, a good commercial department, its beginning to establish a good name and reputation towards the customers etc....
I do believe we owe all of this to the vision of AAB ( when its good you have to say it as well)
Internally it is a big mess though so they will have to change that aspect very fast! At this stage the company is killing itself from the inside, its on auto destruct phase!
So they have to change that and they have to do it really fast.....NOW!
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Thanks for your replies Killick and Qatari515. A you both said QR has plenty of potential and at least on paper it is has all the elements of a succesful airline but in my opinion everything is being flushed down the drain with all the internal turmoil. Why do you think nothing is happening to improve the situation, is AAB in denial?
"Whatever anyone thinks about the boss, he lives and breathes his job and has dragged the airline up by its bootstraps"
I agree, AAB deserves a lot of credit for what he has done to the airline from the times of HAT.
Regards,
HF
P.S. Good luck to all of you at QR!
"Whatever anyone thinks about the boss, he lives and breathes his job and has dragged the airline up by its bootstraps"
I agree, AAB deserves a lot of credit for what he has done to the airline from the times of HAT.
Regards,
HF
P.S. Good luck to all of you at QR!
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The quick answer is yes almost certainly they will make it. However they have a huge amount of lessons to learn and by the outside world they are seen as the poor mans EK, almost following their every move.
I agree with HF that incompentent mangement is hindering that progress with stupid decisions like buying more A300's and mismatching aircraft with routes and wondering why we don't get the yield (a monkey could work that out) and again I agrre that The Bouncer is in denial.
The service on board is too regimented and lacks real character that sets it apart from others. To me QR are just a very average carrier, nothing more.
God forbid that anything happen to one of our aircraft, but that is one situation that could endanger the airline and its future. If it happened in Europe the press who will virtually close it down. This paranoid control freak has made so many enemies who will be willing to speak out and give out a lot of previously unpublished (on pprune) info that, lets face it, we all know about. We know the press looks at this anyway.
He's got to face up to the fact that many of the senior people around him are unexperienced, incompentant and start listening to real people. Then he might start to make some progress but not until he does.
I agree with HF that incompentent mangement is hindering that progress with stupid decisions like buying more A300's and mismatching aircraft with routes and wondering why we don't get the yield (a monkey could work that out) and again I agrre that The Bouncer is in denial.
The service on board is too regimented and lacks real character that sets it apart from others. To me QR are just a very average carrier, nothing more.
God forbid that anything happen to one of our aircraft, but that is one situation that could endanger the airline and its future. If it happened in Europe the press who will virtually close it down. This paranoid control freak has made so many enemies who will be willing to speak out and give out a lot of previously unpublished (on pprune) info that, lets face it, we all know about. We know the press looks at this anyway.
He's got to face up to the fact that many of the senior people around him are unexperienced, incompentant and start listening to real people. Then he might start to make some progress but not until he does.
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ekatehtnohsabuD,
Thank you for your reply.
"God forbid that anything happen to one of our aircraft"
That was one of my main concerns especially with the safety standards falling especially with all the inexperienced crew being hired. As someone else mentioned people only go to QR as a last resort or for a temporary period untill something better comes up, while EK is becoming a lifetime dream for many pilots. QR should do more to attract and RETAIN cabin and deck crew as well as management.
"stupid decisions like buying more A300's "
Have more been bought after Foxtrot Charlie (other than freighters of course)?
BTW can you confirm the rumours that an ex-ALM figure will be joining the management team?
Regards,
HF
Thank you for your reply.
"God forbid that anything happen to one of our aircraft"
That was one of my main concerns especially with the safety standards falling especially with all the inexperienced crew being hired. As someone else mentioned people only go to QR as a last resort or for a temporary period untill something better comes up, while EK is becoming a lifetime dream for many pilots. QR should do more to attract and RETAIN cabin and deck crew as well as management.
"stupid decisions like buying more A300's "
Have more been bought after Foxtrot Charlie (other than freighters of course)?
BTW can you confirm the rumours that an ex-ALM figure will be joining the management team?
Regards,
HF
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There are definately many flight safety issues that are currently being overlooked, ignored etc that AAB should take more seriously..he doesnt have the foresight to see that its very much in this companys interests if he wants to be a major player in the region, these are things that will be looked at in a helluva amount of detail if there is a major incident/accident. The huge amount of negative publicity will seriously affect revenues particularly from Europe.
I understand another 2 A300's will be joining the fleet in addition to the 2 x330's 2x 320's & 1x 319 (that came out of nowhere). Whether they are the freighters or not I'm not sure. Anyway the A300 is an old, inefficient aircraft and is not a long haul aircraft despite the routes that QR try to fly it on ie. KUL & CMN.
As far as the ex ALM man goes, i know nothing. Whoever they bring in won't make any difference unless the mentality of The Bouncer changes...he's wasting his time coming here...he'll be gone within months like so many others.
I understand another 2 A300's will be joining the fleet in addition to the 2 x330's 2x 320's & 1x 319 (that came out of nowhere). Whether they are the freighters or not I'm not sure. Anyway the A300 is an old, inefficient aircraft and is not a long haul aircraft despite the routes that QR try to fly it on ie. KUL & CMN.
As far as the ex ALM man goes, i know nothing. Whoever they bring in won't make any difference unless the mentality of The Bouncer changes...he's wasting his time coming here...he'll be gone within months like so many others.
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I think you might have mixed things up, unless I got the wrong information aircraft due this year are:
A320:
A7-ADE, DF, DG and DH
A300F:
A7-AFB
A332:
A7-ACC (already here), CD and CH
ACJ
A7-CJA
[hr]
"1x 319 (that came out of nowhere)"
This A319 which is a CJ by the way was mentioned all the way back in 2000 when the first A319CJ was ordered as it was an option which was only firmed up last January.
"Anyway the A300 is an old, inefficient aircraft and is not a long haul aircraft despite the routes that QR try to fly it on ie. KUL & CMN"
I agree on the CMN comment, the aircraft makes TECH stops in Tunis a lot but I have to disagree with you on another point, while the A300 might be inefficient when it comes to fuel burn it is important for QR in that it does much better than the A330 on the short Middle Eastern and South Asia routes. Unless they get more traffic rights the A320 is no replacement on short routes, why do you think Lufthansa are keeping theres and infact getting more. Another point is that the A300s are very cheap to lease or purchase which renders the fuel burn or maintanence costs irrelevant.
A320:
A7-ADE, DF, DG and DH
A300F:
A7-AFB
A332:
A7-ACC (already here), CD and CH
ACJ
A7-CJA
[hr]
"1x 319 (that came out of nowhere)"
This A319 which is a CJ by the way was mentioned all the way back in 2000 when the first A319CJ was ordered as it was an option which was only firmed up last January.
"Anyway the A300 is an old, inefficient aircraft and is not a long haul aircraft despite the routes that QR try to fly it on ie. KUL & CMN"
I agree on the CMN comment, the aircraft makes TECH stops in Tunis a lot but I have to disagree with you on another point, while the A300 might be inefficient when it comes to fuel burn it is important for QR in that it does much better than the A330 on the short Middle Eastern and South Asia routes. Unless they get more traffic rights the A320 is no replacement on short routes, why do you think Lufthansa are keeping theres and infact getting more. Another point is that the A300s are very cheap to lease or purchase which renders the fuel burn or maintanence costs irrelevant.
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HF, you may well be right about the exact numbers that are coming into the fleet, but put a A300 into service on a sector longer than 5- 5 & half hours with a full passenger load there starts to be payload restrictions. Check out the cargo rev uplift ex KUL especially its very poor (7 & half hours - 8hours), BKK not much better, CMN only "gets away with it" more often than not because its not full. MAN (if full) will suffer from same prob.
Check out fuel burn...for example MXP-DOH on A300 is more than MXP-DOH on A330! Same with B777! The problem is theres no real plan. We go back to the other threads of the past, expansion for expansion sake, get what ever aircraft we can. Nearly all airlines operated payload restricted sectors but we seem to operate far more than most. It may be cheaper to buy/lease but its not cheaper on a flight by flight basis and if its operating payload restricted sectors, well, whats the point?
The mismatch of aircraft to routes...
A300...most of europe, KUL, BKK, CMN
A320...TRV, KTM, MLE etc ..even worse in this case because the hold are full of baggage (when full with passengers)so very little if any cargo is uplifted.
Most major carriers make a vast proportion of their profit from cargo. We clearly are not carrying as much as we could. If we didnt have vast amounts of money behind us would we put more effort into getting it right in order to make a profit? I Think so!
Anyway HF...what is your conclusion from this little survey as it seems to me all of us are just covering old ground again...hapiness is V2 out of Doha!!!
Check out fuel burn...for example MXP-DOH on A300 is more than MXP-DOH on A330! Same with B777! The problem is theres no real plan. We go back to the other threads of the past, expansion for expansion sake, get what ever aircraft we can. Nearly all airlines operated payload restricted sectors but we seem to operate far more than most. It may be cheaper to buy/lease but its not cheaper on a flight by flight basis and if its operating payload restricted sectors, well, whats the point?
The mismatch of aircraft to routes...
A300...most of europe, KUL, BKK, CMN
A320...TRV, KTM, MLE etc ..even worse in this case because the hold are full of baggage (when full with passengers)so very little if any cargo is uplifted.
Most major carriers make a vast proportion of their profit from cargo. We clearly are not carrying as much as we could. If we didnt have vast amounts of money behind us would we put more effort into getting it right in order to make a profit? I Think so!
Anyway HF...what is your conclusion from this little survey as it seems to me all of us are just covering old ground again...hapiness is V2 out of Doha!!!
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Some really interesting topics have been touched here...
What can destruct QR at this stage:
1) An incident......one of those and the Qatari dream is over! I am glad to say that from the training departments out the people are trying to raise the level of some of the incompetents flying around here!!! They try but as long as QR does not bring up its package, offered to both Cockpit and cabin crews, they will continue to attract low skilled people only! Asian and European markets are picking up and allready we can see a lot of the good guys leaving! Its only a matter of time before all the good guys will be gone and then what....The basket cases stay off course with the known result! Unless they are willing to change their offer!
2) The press. They are just waiting for an information leak from within the company! They live on other peoples remains....we all know that! And right now the managment and AAB are pissing so many people off that this leak is just bound to occur once! And then the slightest mistake will get blown out of proportion with catastrophal results!
3) The personnel.....see all of the above!
Concerning fleet utilisation......it is true! An A300 is a MH High density airplane designed to fly routes between 30mins and 4 hours! Off course it can handle longer flights but just look at the penalties then! The same goes for the 320! And the 330 has never been designed to fly DOH/DXB as well!
They should straighten this up!
Regarding the service on board being just avreage...I have to strongly disagree on that! The service in business and first is just perfect! Eco is a bit less but then again, do not expect miracles to happen for free!
I know the QR managment is reading these forums, including AAB and I can only hope that they will make conclusions out of these reports....I hope I hope I hope!!!!
The fact that there has been a lot of commotion around QR lately should ring a bell in the tower!!! You dont see this comming from EK crew for example.....
QR is a good airline with loads of potential that deserves to live!!
What can destruct QR at this stage:
1) An incident......one of those and the Qatari dream is over! I am glad to say that from the training departments out the people are trying to raise the level of some of the incompetents flying around here!!! They try but as long as QR does not bring up its package, offered to both Cockpit and cabin crews, they will continue to attract low skilled people only! Asian and European markets are picking up and allready we can see a lot of the good guys leaving! Its only a matter of time before all the good guys will be gone and then what....The basket cases stay off course with the known result! Unless they are willing to change their offer!
2) The press. They are just waiting for an information leak from within the company! They live on other peoples remains....we all know that! And right now the managment and AAB are pissing so many people off that this leak is just bound to occur once! And then the slightest mistake will get blown out of proportion with catastrophal results!
3) The personnel.....see all of the above!
Concerning fleet utilisation......it is true! An A300 is a MH High density airplane designed to fly routes between 30mins and 4 hours! Off course it can handle longer flights but just look at the penalties then! The same goes for the 320! And the 330 has never been designed to fly DOH/DXB as well!
They should straighten this up!
Regarding the service on board being just avreage...I have to strongly disagree on that! The service in business and first is just perfect! Eco is a bit less but then again, do not expect miracles to happen for free!
I know the QR managment is reading these forums, including AAB and I can only hope that they will make conclusions out of these reports....I hope I hope I hope!!!!
The fact that there has been a lot of commotion around QR lately should ring a bell in the tower!!! You dont see this comming from EK crew for example.....
QR is a good airline with loads of potential that deserves to live!!
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Recent Article from Peninsula(6/3)
"Qatar Airways has announced plans to operate an Airbus Corporate Jetliner (ACJ) configured for A319 long range operations. The airline’s Chief Executive Officer Akbar Al Baker said at the Aircraft Interiors Expo in Hamburg recently that the aircraft, Qatar’s second ACJ, was scheduled to enter service in mid-2003 and would be named ‘Oryx Long Range.’ Qatar’s first ACJ is in operation with the airline since mid-2001, carrying the name ‘Oryx Express.’ The A319 Long Range is the latest addition to the Airbus A320 family of aircraft, combining the performance capabilities of the ACJ with the qualities of a premium-class airliner. The ACJ, a longer-range version of the A319, can fly as far as 11,100 km.
Akbar Al Baker said: “Qatar Airways is proud to be known as an all-Airbus airline. Our relationship with Airbus has stood the test of time and we both have grown from strength to strength due to our close ooperation during the past year.” He recalled that Qatar Airways was the launch customer of the ACJ and again the airline will be one of the first to buy the Airbus Superjumbo A380, “an aircraft which will prove to be the pride of the owners and envy of their competitors.”
The CEO said by the end of the current year, Qatar Airways will have a fleet of 28 airplanes, all Airbus aircraft. While the Oryx Express is configured to accommodate 36 passengers, the Oryx Long Range will feature a two-class cabin layout for up to 110 passengers. Both aircraft will fly on a network that includes destinations in Europe, Africa, the Middle East, the Subcontinent and Asia. As an addition to the airliner passenger cabin, an Air Medical Unit can be fitted in about one hour in place of two seats and stowage.
Akbar Al Baker said: “Qatar Airways is proud to be known as an all-Airbus airline. Our relationship with Airbus has stood the test of time and we both have grown from strength to strength due to our close ooperation during the past year.” He recalled that Qatar Airways was the launch customer of the ACJ and again the airline will be one of the first to buy the Airbus Superjumbo A380, “an aircraft which will prove to be the pride of the owners and envy of their competitors.”
The CEO said by the end of the current year, Qatar Airways will have a fleet of 28 airplanes, all Airbus aircraft. While the Oryx Express is configured to accommodate 36 passengers, the Oryx Long Range will feature a two-class cabin layout for up to 110 passengers. Both aircraft will fly on a network that includes destinations in Europe, Africa, the Middle East, the Subcontinent and Asia. As an addition to the airliner passenger cabin, an Air Medical Unit can be fitted in about one hour in place of two seats and stowage.
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Thank you all for your feed back indeed very interesting points being raised.
I don't think the fleet is a problem area for QR, A300's being phased from starting from this year and should be out by 2006. A330's will be doing all the long haul work (besides the A340-500s for ultra-long routes). "And the 330 has never been designed to fly DOH/DXB as well" Many major airlines fly long haul aircraft on short routes e.g. CX, SQ and EK I agree it is not suitable but this also has its merits such as utilization as well as product familirazation.
The same thing with the expansion, those higher up in the food chain will know what the reason is (hint: Shareholders). It is strange that people on the inside don't know while many on the outside do.]
But I do agree the number one issue is personnel and safety. Not only does pay package need improving but also the style of management. It is very good that a CEO pays attention to detail and makes sure that nothing goes wrong but only upto a point. People don't like it when the CEO treats personnel as children and checks up on everything they do, it makes it seem that he doesn't trust his staff enough to leave them alone and let them do there work instead he interferes in everything
"I know the QR managment is reading these forums, including AAB and I can only hope that they will make conclusions out of these reports....I hope I hope I hope!!!!"
Here is hoping.
BTW one thing I thing I noticed with you Qatari515 which I haven't noticed with many others is that you keep optimistic while others are much more cynical. *Motivational Speaker mode: ON* This is what I always do, it can be tough but always think positive and positive things will happen *Motivational Speaker mode: OFF*
Sorry about the above
I don't think the fleet is a problem area for QR, A300's being phased from starting from this year and should be out by 2006. A330's will be doing all the long haul work (besides the A340-500s for ultra-long routes). "And the 330 has never been designed to fly DOH/DXB as well" Many major airlines fly long haul aircraft on short routes e.g. CX, SQ and EK I agree it is not suitable but this also has its merits such as utilization as well as product familirazation.
The same thing with the expansion, those higher up in the food chain will know what the reason is (hint: Shareholders). It is strange that people on the inside don't know while many on the outside do.]
But I do agree the number one issue is personnel and safety. Not only does pay package need improving but also the style of management. It is very good that a CEO pays attention to detail and makes sure that nothing goes wrong but only upto a point. People don't like it when the CEO treats personnel as children and checks up on everything they do, it makes it seem that he doesn't trust his staff enough to leave them alone and let them do there work instead he interferes in everything
"I know the QR managment is reading these forums, including AAB and I can only hope that they will make conclusions out of these reports....I hope I hope I hope!!!!"
Here is hoping.
BTW one thing I thing I noticed with you Qatari515 which I haven't noticed with many others is that you keep optimistic while others are much more cynical. *Motivational Speaker mode: ON* This is what I always do, it can be tough but always think positive and positive things will happen *Motivational Speaker mode: OFF*
Sorry about the above
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Boo, Hoo
well... I'll tell you all one thing... these days i'm just happy to have a good job at a good airline like QR... some folks will disagree of course, but the way i look at it..
I could be with a fly-by-night cargo outfit that doesn't always want to pay you on time,, or doesn't always supply you with the best 2 star accomidations, and certainly does not supply any on-board catering.. or even worse.. no job at all .. working at the local gas station making less in a month less than what i make in perdiums a week..
well i have to say that i'm very happy at QR dispite all the whineing and crying.. .. i could do without the back stabbing.. but, pilots are their own worst enemies when it comes to that..
I love my Job
after all.. it could be ALOT worse.
I could be with a fly-by-night cargo outfit that doesn't always want to pay you on time,, or doesn't always supply you with the best 2 star accomidations, and certainly does not supply any on-board catering.. or even worse.. no job at all .. working at the local gas station making less in a month less than what i make in perdiums a week..
well i have to say that i'm very happy at QR dispite all the whineing and crying.. .. i could do without the back stabbing.. but, pilots are their own worst enemies when it comes to that..
I love my Job
after all.. it could be ALOT worse.
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Again it depends on AAB I feel.
He may eventually upset the wrong person!
A lot of very good people out there and it's always the minority that spoil it!
I wish them well!
He may eventually upset the wrong person!
A lot of very good people out there and it's always the minority that spoil it!
I wish them well!
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Capt KruncH
You are right off course and it could be worse.....But this does not mean you have to stop being a critic! You do not have to accept anything just because of that, certainly not when the issue is safety.
Theres a difference between the professional crybabies amongst pilots and those who are criticizing in the hopes that by doing so they might change a thing in the company they work for.....This might be good for both employee and company!
Like HF said, I try to stay positive and I do enjoy working for QR but still I will be saying what I think or feel.....
PS HF......thanks mate!
You are right off course and it could be worse.....But this does not mean you have to stop being a critic! You do not have to accept anything just because of that, certainly not when the issue is safety.
Theres a difference between the professional crybabies amongst pilots and those who are criticizing in the hopes that by doing so they might change a thing in the company they work for.....This might be good for both employee and company!
Like HF said, I try to stay positive and I do enjoy working for QR but still I will be saying what I think or feel.....
PS HF......thanks mate!
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A new upper management board would make the world of difference, as would a less "hands on" approach from AAB.
Sadly, everyone at QR knows that at the end of the day, absolutely everything requires approval from AAB. That being the case, some of the fine managers within the company do not command the respect that they deserve, because their charges know that they are all ineffective and cannot make decisions without referral.
It's old hat as far as the QR threads are concerned, but nonetheless still true.
I wish the company well and continue to fly with them whenever I possibly can. Since I have so many friends who work at QR and some who have left in essence because the Company ruined their lives, it is upsetting to see that despite faint glimmers of hope that things can change, the Company seems to always get so far up the slope, but slides back down again just before reaching the top.
Sadly, everyone at QR knows that at the end of the day, absolutely everything requires approval from AAB. That being the case, some of the fine managers within the company do not command the respect that they deserve, because their charges know that they are all ineffective and cannot make decisions without referral.
It's old hat as far as the QR threads are concerned, but nonetheless still true.
I wish the company well and continue to fly with them whenever I possibly can. Since I have so many friends who work at QR and some who have left in essence because the Company ruined their lives, it is upsetting to see that despite faint glimmers of hope that things can change, the Company seems to always get so far up the slope, but slides back down again just before reaching the top.