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Say bye, bye productivity!

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Say bye, bye productivity!

Old 21st Aug 2018, 07:40
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: earth
Posts: 1,041
Originally Posted by gearlever View Post
Some have balls, others don't.
Well, the ones with balls have kids ...... and many are therefore stuck.
It's a catch22!
glofish is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 10:55
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dusty West
Age: 48
Posts: 595
Originally Posted by glofish View Post
Well, the ones with balls have kids ...... and many are therefore stuck.
It's a catch22!
I call BS on that glofish, no one is stuck. I have 2 kids and left the sandbox 2 months ago.

Folks will stay if they choose to stay, others choose to leave, its not a complicated choice. Your Sh...t bucket just isn'f full enough yet.
The Outlaw is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 11:26
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Knoteatingham
Posts: 829
Originally Posted by The Outlaw View Post
I call BS on that glofish, no one is stuck. I have 2 kids and left the sandbox 2 months ago.

Folks will stay if they choose to stay, others choose to leave, its not a complicated choice. Your Sh...t bucket just isn'f full enough yet.
There are quite a few of us old gits who are still a little too young or financially sorted to retire but too old to want to start again anywhere else.

it doesn't mean we are happy or unhappy and last time I checked I still had a pair, but it is sometimes easier (and smarter) to manage the devil you know rather than risk jumping from frying pan into fire.

Emirates has issues and it is probably going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. But am I really going to quit on a matter of principle when I can quit in 2-3 years and retire early?

Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 21st Aug 2018 at 12:05.
BANANASBANANAS is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 12:45
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 68
So youíre basically saying your ďStuckĒ here Bananas.
It is going to get a whole lot worse and it is never ever going to get better here, ever, so why stay? It is so much better elsewhere as another posting pointed out with LH and I know Delta is leaps and bounds ahead of EK.
Its not a matter of principle itís a matter of your health and sanity and with most other airlines paying more and working less hours you would be far better off leaving even if you only have 2-3 years left.
RK Blue sky is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 13:02
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Knoteatingham
Posts: 829
Originally Posted by RK Blue sky View Post
So you’re basically saying your “Stuck” here Bananas.
It is going to get a whole lot worse and it is never ever going to get better here, ever, so why stay? It is so much better elsewhere as another posting pointed out with LH and I know Delta is leaps and bounds ahead of EK.
Its not a matter of principle it’s a matter of your health and sanity and with most other airlines paying more and working less hours you would be far better off leaving even if you only have 2-3 years left.
No. Either you are choosing to miss the point or I am not explaining it simply enough to you.

I am not 'stuck' here at all.

But when I compare the financial costs, disruption etc just to go somewhere else for 4-5 years (v 2-3 if I stay at EK) prior to retirement it makes sense to minimise the overall frustrations by staying at EK. That doesn't mean I am happy or unhappy at EK. It simply means that there is minimal overall frustration (or maximum overall satisfaction) by staying here for another 2-3 years.

I can manage the health side of things quite easily. If I am sick or fatigued I don't fly. My 'productivity' can't be great but no call for a chat yet.

I'm not sure I can simplify it any more than that.


BANANASBANANAS is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2018, 18:10
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Dubai
Age: 51
Posts: 172
I would suggest that only an idiot lets his balls override rational decision making. I hope you guys don't operate in the plane like that........
Kennytheking is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2018, 01:02
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 68
How do you manage your sick time each and every month to fly 75-80 hrs like regular airlines do? You call in sick 1-2 trips every month?
Youíre berating me when Iím actively trying to leave this dump while you choose to stay and put up with EKs numerous imperfections, safety and health concerns.
Enjoy your 2-3 yrs here. I hope you make it all the way to the end.
RK Blue sky is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2018, 03:38
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Knoteatingham
Posts: 829
Originally Posted by RK Blue sky View Post
How do you manage your sick time each and every month to fly 75-80 hrs like regular airlines do? You call in sick 1-2 trips every month?
Youíre berating me when Iím actively trying to leave this dump while you choose to stay and put up with EKs numerous imperfections, safety and health concerns.
Enjoy your 2-3 yrs here. I hope you make it all the way to the end.
Not berating anyone. Just explaining my position and correcting what appeared to be a misinterpretation from you.

We each have different personal situations, financial goals, personal goals, capacity to manage DXB/EK etc. If it ever gets too much we will leave and not look back but so far it has been managable. Not great but managable and certainly better (or less bad) than the disruption, cost and stress associated with moving jobs, house, country etc.

i hope it works out for you. You have made your decisions, I have made mine.
BANANASBANANAS is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2018, 04:01
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,873
RK, Bananas has been a Capt in a few Expat jobs prior to this one. His unemotional response is something you need to understand . Only you can decide your future. If you are not happy move on to somewhere you will be .This place is not worth wasting agro on.
Bananas has made a decision, like many of us have, and we take responsibility for that . No-one is stopping you from leaving, if that's what you want to do, other than yourself. For some a few years extra mean we don't need to find another job . Even if that other job was with Delta, the pay cut, and extra years required wouldn't be worth it . Our goals or timeline is different to yours, and that's OK.
I hope it all works out for you.
donpizmeov is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2018, 05:25
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 416
It has changed in my time here from being a rewarding career to being a figure on a sheet that lets me escape. Jumping to another airline with its associated faults (and they all have them) takes a minimum of 18 months to break even cash wise, and thats assuming it pays more. If it pays similar then you have lost 18 months for 'life' at the end since you need to retire 18 months later. I have a target and a figure, the second that is reached I will be pushing 2 and will be out of here. Such a shame it had to go this way, as I say it used to be a career.
felixthecat is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2018, 09:46
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: FL 350
Posts: 71
I am in the same boat as Bananas.

RK, it depends on how old you are and if you have time to absorb a layoff or bankruptcy. Those of us who are close to retirement have less time to recover from events beyond our control. Everything looks great right now, but a single "event" could change that in an instant.

An example I can offer is that I basically got hired by a large brown box carrier 2 months after I arrived in Dubai the summer of 2007. I was assigned a class at brown box in early December 2007. They were supposed to hire 500 guys in very short order. Of course the economy slowed and hiring at brown stopped the end of December and 350-400 pilots were put on the street in January 2009, for about 4 years. As much as I wanted the job, common sense at the time prevailed. As a result, I was a captain here the entire time versus being on the street during the financial crisis. Pure luck. Stuff happens and you have to think about how bad things could possibly get.......and it is not just all "Blue Skies".
TOGA! is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2018, 11:16
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 655
At the risk of thread creep, can a few posters give an idea of what age the are planning on retiring? How large would the retirement fund have to be to hang up the flying helmet for good?
As a pilot in a European flag carrier, I'm interested in the perceived advantages of the ex-pat flying career .
hunterboy is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2018, 15:29
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Asia
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
At the risk of thread creep, can a few posters give an idea of what age the are planning on retiring? How large would the retirement fund have to be to hang up the flying helmet for good?
As a pilot in a European flag carrier, I'm interested in the perceived advantages of the ex-pat flying career .
Iíve been here close to 7 years and it sits at $135k atm and I got my command when suppose to. Iíll be pulling the plug end of next month just to meet the 7 year mark (in order to get 100% of the provident fund). In hindsight I should have left after 5
kcar is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2018, 16:36
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 416
To give up for good $1.5 million US and house paid off
felixthecat is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2018, 17:55
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Doctor's waiting room
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
At the risk of thread creep, can a few posters give an idea of what age the are planning on retiring? How large would the retirement fund have to be to hang up the flying helmet for good?
As a pilot in a European flag carrier, I'm interested in the perceived advantages of the ex-pat flying career .
55 at the latest to pack in wide body flying and somewhere between £1 - 1.5 mill if I was to not work again. That age is a few years away, hence the approximate figure. I have a no desire to go back to short haul flying before then but could perhaps see myself getting a part time job at home on a turboprop or similar after that 'magic' age, providing there is still some enthusiasm left in me!
Emma Royds is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 02:26
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: abroad
Posts: 58
You will need a minimum of 25x your expenses to retire but preferably more, I’m aiming for 35x so I have a buffer. I’m attempting to get there by saving hard and not wasting money on unnecessary items. Eg. No shiny new Porsche on the drive, no 700 dirham champagne brunches, no 2000 dirham dinners at Nusr-Et, no weekends at Bab Al Shams etc
FREQUENTFLYER1234 is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 03:08
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,873
You sound like a lot of fun frequent flyer. Good on you for planning on leaving a huge inheritance for those you leave behind.
donpizmeov is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 04:37
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: abroad
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by donpizmeov View Post
You sound like a lot of fun frequent flyer. Good on you for planning on leaving a huge inheritance for those you leave behind.
I like to think so! All Iím saying is that it is still possible to save money and have fun here without going crazy!
FREQUENTFLYER1234 is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 06:11
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 655
I guess most posters are planning on retiring at 60+? Must be difficult to save 1-1.5 Mil before that? My own sums show a seemingly healthy fund equivalent to a couple of Mil, but appearances are deceptive. With various govt surcharges and income tax, it works out at a few thousand a month for 30 years ish. Not actually a lot to show for a 35 + year career. Options include staying abroad in a low income tax country, but I guess most ex pat retirees are looking forward to returning home?
hunterboy is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 12:56
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,873
Hunter like everything it depends on luck. Some got commands in 12 months of arriving some years ago. Others arriving several years later had to wait 7 yrs on one fleet while it was 3yrs on the other. All of this is beyond the individuals control . I know some that have the majority of their provident fund in cash and bonds, and they will be working to the age limit to fund retirement. Others did well with property here and retired at 50 . Others lost all savings on property deals that went wrong .

For some, depending on when they joined, it could be mid late 50s. For others it will be later . Of note, those over 17yrs in will more than likely stay here and leave when they have enough to retire. Those with less time leave to work elsewhere. Well seems that way with the fellas I know anyway . In my time here my seniority has moved about 300 numbers, when those that joined a decade later have moved 2.5 times that. Not sure that will continue though as conditions seem to slide rather than continue.

But not paying income tax is a very positive thing when it comes to investing. Some countries will tax you when you send that lump sum home. Others luckily don't.
donpizmeov is offline  

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