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Angry cabin crew (forum rumor)

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Angry cabin crew (forum rumor)

Old 8th Feb 2018, 04:31
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In the back of a bus
Posts: 954
Good they got a result, but a shame it was on something that affects only a segment of the crew rather than everyone.

A friend who was present told me that unfortunately the content of the 'discussion' got sidetracked by some people focusing on personal grievances/issues with the company rather than the big ticket items (like rostering, lack of respect from other departments, leave, etc etc etc)

Now if they can keep the momentum and tackle the big things like the F word and the high hour rosters, that will be noteworthy.

No disrespect but a few pregnant crew isn't something that the majority of the 20k plus CC workforce super care about ahead of their QOL and working environment. They knew there was no maternity leave when they joined and they got it last year. Move on to something else and come back to the mat benefits later. Take care of the rosters, pays etc first that affects 100% of the CC workforce. Office jobs for injured crew would be a good start, since injuries are something that crew don't plan for and currently there is no guarantee of any hours available for those who can't immediately return to flying following an industrial injury
givemewings is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2018, 05:38
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: London
Posts: 65
Givemewings, please tell us how medical benefits isn’t a huge issue affecting the entire crew population? This was changed overnight and screwed all the cabin crew collectively for Co-payment and reduced cover. Maybe you can’t see how important this is? This is the main reason why they went to the forum and rosters and so on was to be discussed at a subsequent forum. Effectively making staff unpaid when they get pregnant is deplorable as well and is an important part of the medical discussion. In any civilised country it would be illegal.
Why didn’t you go to the forum or are you another ex employee with an unhealthy interest in your former employer?
I think it’s fantastic the crew attended and stood up to them, respect to everyone that showed up.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 06:31
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: In the clouds
Posts: 16
Videos from within the forum are all available on a cabin crew Facebook group called Crew2crew. Ask a friendly CC to show you.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 07:07
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Middle East
Posts: 146
I don't really read PPRuNe much nowadays. It tends to be the same people moaning about the same issues and achieving very little.

I was pleasantly surprised to hear the news that over 1,000 cabin got off their butts and tried to make a difference. I was saddened at that point to read the sarcastic critique that so often you read on here. The discussion at the beginning about percentages of cabin crew that were perhaps in Dubai, compared to the percentages that actually turned up. The thought that what was done would achieve very little.

I think all of you still working for this company should learn from what has just taken place. The cabin crew had their managers on the ropes. Their issues may not be the issues that you would necessarily negotiate or discussion, but they actually stood as one and took the bosses on. I don't see the pilots doing that.... for the most part you just sit here and pontificate about how bad things are. In the end you either leave or continue to moan. Maybe there is something to learn from this???
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 07:33
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In the back of a bus
Posts: 954
Hiflier, speedbir because it wasn't "medical benefits" that got reinstated, it was a benefit that was never given in the first place, and that all crew knew when joining was not paid. Ditto with the live out not being given at that time. It was no secret allowances stopped if crew took unpaid leave for pregnancy.

Unlike the company reducing the overall medical coverage and bringing in the 30% co-pay which was a reduction in established conditions. As I said it's good they achieved a result but I'd rather have seen a win that covered everyone (like putting medical coverage back to where it was) and getting rid of the new co-pat which is still quite expensive for the average crew.

My worry is the management will concede this one, to quell the fuss then stall on everything else as they always have. And the crew go on getting hammered with high hour rosters and high medical costs.

Hopefully there's more wins to come, and they benefit everyone, not just some.

Last edited by givemewings; 8th Feb 2018 at 08:42.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 11:04
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 73
The Cabin Crew will likely get a lot of sympathy from those workers in HQ. I doubt they would show the same sympathy for whinging overpaid (over worked) Pilots if you turned up en mass.


I
GKOC41 is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2018, 11:25
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: usa
Posts: 1,006
Originally Posted by Uplink View Post
I don't really read PPRuNe much nowadays. It tends to be the same people moaning about the same issues and achieving very little.

I was pleasantly surprised to hear the news that over 1,000 cabin got off their butts and tried to make a difference. I was saddened at that point to read the sarcastic critique that so often you read on here. The discussion at the beginning about percentages of cabin crew that were perhaps in Dubai, compared to the percentages that actually turned up. The thought that what was done would achieve very little.

I think all of you still working for this company should learn from what has just taken place. The cabin crew had their managers on the ropes. Their issues may not be the issues that you would necessarily negotiate or discussion, but they actually stood as one and took the bosses on. I don't see the pilots doing that.... for the most part you just sit here and pontificate about how bad things are. In the end you either leave or continue to moan. Maybe there is something to learn from this???
Not sure how you can pontificate yourself and be so self assured about what the pilot group will or will not do. Your muse (amongst others above) is lacking in facts.

How do you know that if there was an open forum to air grievances with AAR that pilots would not show up in force. Because from what happened the last time they were on offer - we did & in force - though we were restricted in numbers by Fleets commandments to 65 per sitting. They were all oversubscribed.

In Jan ‘16 TICH announced a new era in Flt Ops of ‘Open Communication’ with the introduction of MONTHLY Fleet Forums. Since then there have been 7. So in essence the Co has dialed ‘2’ on us 17 times in the last 24 months. I wonder how we would be treated if we dialed ‘2’ 17 Times in the last 24 months - I digress.

I was at one of these forums and I can tell you it was heated, pointed and downright confrontational. The pilots there spoke passionately about their grievances - too many to air here. As a result of the first four which occurred previous to May 2016 - we achieved a number of objectives which were conceded to us in the Pay Review of May/June 2016. They were:
1. Increased Steps for Snr Captains
2. Flying Pay increase
3. Ground Pay
4. Sim Pay
5. Dubai duty start 1:25 previous to Departure.

Many of us put our names forward for additional forums but were told it was restricted to those who had not yet attended.

While the above may seem minor they were important. One of the issues with smaller forums is that they can be monitored and it appeared the more passionate the individual pilots were - the more furious the note takings were from the HR ladies who were writing away. ‘Attitudinal ‘ addition to my HR file I suspect.

You ask rhetorically “Maybe there is something to learn from this?”
Yes there is - and I believe the Co will learn very fast - as they did with our Fleet Forums - no more.

Go easy on the generalizations without facts.
fliion is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2018, 12:17
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,366
Well done Fliion
fatbus is online now  
Old 8th Feb 2018, 14:42
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Burj Sandpit
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
Which VP was copping the wrath- PLEASE tell me it was AAR!!!!!
It was
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 16:52
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Top of the World
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Hypoxic - maybe you shouldn't advertise that here? Jesus.
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Old 9th Feb 2018, 08:24
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In the back of a bus
Posts: 954
Xulu, C2C began as a management sanctioned group. They know it exists, IIRC there were managers in the group as well. So I doubt they're just learning of the fact that the videos are there...
givemewings is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2018, 07:36
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 341
Come on Harry, you need to come on here and quickly castigate those unruly CC for showing a total lack of respect for their "leaders" and explain again why all should be grateful to be employed by EK at all.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 11:15
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,876
Don't think I have ever seen Harry suggest a thing.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 11:39
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Originally Posted by donpizmeov View Post
Don't think I have ever seen Harry suggest a thing.
He is just busy playing with his Bentley and defending everything EK is doing.
Talparc is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2018, 14:33
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Sharp End.
Posts: 433
I’m not sure that Harry has any agenda to be honest. He argues both sides, I think.

It’s just that he’s a patronising pragmatist... (I now await a patronisingly pragmatic reply )
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 16:59
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: usa
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Originally Posted by Talparc View Post
He is just busy playing with his Bentley and defending everything EK is doing.
Crèche closed on Saturday? Ask your mommy for a jigsaw.
fliion is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2018, 03:57
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hazelmere
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by Talparc View Post
He is just busy playing with his Bentley and defending everything EK is doing.
I've always found Harry to provide an intelligent, well versed and pragmatic thought. Makes a refreshing change to some of what is written on these pages.

We all need a Harry on a public forum like this, don't see why he has to be shot down every time he offers balance to a topic!
SilverSeated is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2018, 00:42
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MIDDLE EAST
Posts: 1,040
Starbear

Not sure why you felt the need to make such a comment but perhaps you should stick with posting your own opinions first before rather ignorantly assuming you know mine!

I can only offer my admiration for the CC in organising such a mass meeting and for their determination to be heard. Unlike some, they were prepared to stand up and be counted, far more so than certain individuals who pervade these forums under the cover of anonymity spouting how terrible EK is...and has been for years...and years..

Well, if you're not happy with your lot, get off your backside and do something about it. Most moaners will not even have the guts to spend an hour on an e-mail for fear of a personal management backlash, but will happily post on a public forum cajoling and persuading others to do their dirty work for them. They haven't even got the balls to join the EK only forum.

Sluggs

Hopefully not too patronising this time!!

Harry
harry the cod is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2018, 04:10
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Post-Pit and Lovin' It.
Posts: 844
I don't mean to diminish the achievement of the CC banding together with some semblance of solidarity. Truly. Kudos to them.

But if one is rational - and honest - it's far easier to be "brave" when you have far less, or nearly nothing, to lose. (Which is why people fitting that description are far more dangerous, as well.)

The average profile of cabin crew at EK: young, single, few years invested in the company, and no designs on a career there; is nothing like that of the average profile of a pilot at EK: older, often with a family to support, and highly invested in their career. (This demographic is shifting by EK design to favour pilots fitting in the former profile, I know!)

This is a generalization and of course there are many exceptions in both groups. And again, this is NOT intended to disrespect those cabin crew who DO have a great deal to lose and showed up anyway.

But as such, especially given the vastly larger employee group, it is perfectly logical that a "revolt" should gather far larger numbers of cabin crew than pilots. Good old Harry though, never missing a chance to disparage his colleagues as lacking "balls"...do you need a link to the definition of "patronizing" or what...?
nolimitholdem is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2018, 10:38
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MIDDLE EAST
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Originally Posted by nolimitholdem View Post
I don't mean to diminish the achievement of the CC banding together with some semblance of solidarity. Truly. Kudos to them.

But if one is rational - and honest - it's far easier to be "brave" when you have far less, or nearly nothing, to lose. (Which is why people fitting that description are far more dangerous, as well.)

The average profile of cabin crew at EK: young, single, few years invested in the company, and no designs on a career there; is nothing like that of the average profile of a pilot at EK: older, often with a family to support, and highly invested in their career. (This demographic is shifting by EK design to favour pilots fitting in the former profile, I know!)

This is a generalization and of course there are many exceptions in both groups. And again, this is NOT intended to disrespect those cabin crew who DO have a great deal to lose and showed up anyway.

But as such, especially given the vastly larger employee group, it is perfectly logical that a "revolt" should gather far larger numbers of cabin crew than pilots. Good old Harry though, never missing a chance to disparage his colleagues as lacking "balls"...do you need a link to the definition of "patronizing" or what...?
I don't disagree with some of your points. However, I would have thought that it's BECAUSE of the very reasons you state that, as a group, pilots are in a far stronger position to stand their ground than our cabin crew colleagues.

We need around 750-800 pilots over the next 12-14 months. We're getting a fraction of that number. Cabin crew recruitment has been frozen for the last 18 months and only now is it planned to re start with the earliest course being late April, early May. Without wishing to sound like the patronising git you accuse me of, if you were running this Company, which group do YOU think is the one the Company needs the most. Some of those cabin crew you refer to are just as much invested in their job as us. I would say that a large number of our pursers, CSV's and FG1's have spouses and children and, unlike the majority of pilots, also use their income to support extended family back home.

As for the disparaging comments, I'll stand by that. When I see your name on the EK dedicated forum along with Talparc and his like, then I'll retract my opinion that the majority of moaners haven't the balls!

Harry

Last edited by harry the cod; 13th Feb 2018 at 10:53.
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