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Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

I've hit my wall working in ME.

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Old 13th Jan 2018, 09:18
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 926
QUALITY OF LIFE AND FAMILY LIFE ARE THE ONLY THINGS THAT MATTER !

Sorry to shout, but it is very easy in our industry to get caught up with the money and the big shiny jets and the uniform - I did once.

But then, some years’ ago I went through a horrible divorce - caused in part by my working hours and long commutes to work - I never really saw my family properly because I was either recovering from the previous 6 on 2 off or was sleeping ready for the next duty. I lost my house and half my pension pot. More recently, my employer suddenly stopped trading; putting us all out of a job, and it seems that despite what they say, some airlines are reluctant to employ a pilot of my age.

So I have gone from being well on the way to a comfortable living and the prospect of a well funded retirement, back to square one.

But, do you know what? Both these major catastrophes in my life have taught me that family and one’s wellbeing are the ONLY things that are important. Everything else is irrelevant.

So my advice to anyone is that if you are not enjoying your job, or the hours and management are getting you down; Resign. Do something else that you really enjoy.

Move and buy a house in the Welsh hills, buy a piano and learn to play it, learn to paint or draw and watch the sunsets or whatever, but LIVE YOUR LIFE - the money and the kudos of flying large aircraft is really not important.

There is no point spending your whole working life away from home, missing your children growing up etc., only to end up as a burnt out husk with health problems.
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Old 13th Jan 2018, 09:37
  #22 (permalink)  
The Cooler King
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In the Desert
Posts: 1,627
Came here with nothing.
Listened to the adults.
Saved money.
Have a bail out mechanism.
Enjoy it mostly.
Some days I struggle, and when I do I weigh my two buckets.
"The Graveyard of Ambition" as a friend calls it.
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Old 13th Jan 2018, 09:49
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Blighty
Posts: 553
Oddins post sums it up nicely, it all depends what your priorities are, I also left and took a big pay cut but have no regrets, am a new refreshed and less grumpy person!
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Old 13th Jan 2018, 12:50
  #24 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,642
When I post on here, I get comments on here..or via PM..asking me why I am still on this board because I left EK almost 3 years ago.

Firstly...because I can.But more importantly, its because I still have friends in EK and like to keep up with what is going on. And more importantly...let people know...there is a life beyond EK and Big Jets.

As I sit here with the dogs and a glass of wine...I have two days off. Then I go back to work to drive a train. Because its an "early" shift..starting at 4.00 am, i have to finish by 10.30 am..this includes a 1 hour break for breakfast at 7.30am.

There is a life beyond the EK Big Jets...it might not pay as much....but yu will feel so much better for it..trust me....I will bet you my house that when you are lying on your death bed you won't say "I wish I had spent another year in Dubai"

Just my thoughts.
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Old 13th Jan 2018, 14:43
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: on earth
Posts: 265
Sciolistes,

I have no idea for who you are flying since you left FZ but I can tell you that with my experience of low cost in europe ( Ryanair ) and FZ here , I still prefer Ryanair...
Why ?
You can really enjoy flying manually there and they have some nice and challenging approaches to play with including visuals or circling.
The roster was a lot more stable with no night flights ( 5 days flying always followed by 4 days off ; 5 days early departure 4 days off then 5 days afternoon departure 4 days off etc...)
If you make a mistake , you will be grounded , sent back to the simulator for some specific training then back on line )
Here you get " fired " or should I say they ask you to resign...
So I am not really sure why you regret FZ and talking about fatigue , I have never been fatigued at Ryanair because I had always 4 days off to recover and never shifting from day to deep night and vice versa...
FZ is definitely a lot worse except for the money
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Old 13th Jan 2018, 22:26
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: BC
Posts: 426
Mindset Change

Having worked in the industry, where flying was my passion, I began to wake up to the values that mattered most:

1. Family
2. Time off

With over 40 years and more hours than I care to think about, I sought to achieve servicing those two value points. I got around people who had achieved real success in their lives and had time with family, time off and had developed an incredible ongoing asset, something I had wanted.

I resigned from active flying some years ago. I donít awake to an alarm clock in the middle of the afternoon to operate some polar operation for 15 hours. I choose to go to places in this world with my family when I want to and, I donít have to worry about running my bank account dry.

A changed mindset did it for us. I have a renewed incredible relationship with my wife and family.

I am grateful to have had the career that I did however; it cannot replace the life I have now.

I hear your pain and it isnít just in the ME.

Best wishes to you all.
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 02:15
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Attic
Age: 53
Posts: 105
I have said it before here many times but just like Sops Iíll say it again. Get out of Emirates as quick as you can. Youíll be so much better off in every aspect.
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 04:03
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 83
Came here at a low point, laid off and not many opportunities. Thought it would be a 1-2 year stint, an asterisk in my career.

First year was a typical Dubai experience of Brunches, Holidays, and expenditures.

Second year was frugal as I figured another opportunity was imminent and i should just work and save. Downsized my car, my flat, and paid off a fair chunk of my debts and was ready to "go"".

Third year was a low point, until I came to a realization that I was living and working here. I needed to be "here". I (politely) avoided other pilots and families who basically lived like I was, one foot out the door and constantly b*tching about the company, country, and counting the days until the next holiday "home". I made friends with long term expats rather than the 1-2 year contract crowd.

The next few years were my favorite here. I pursued new interests and rediscovered old ones. I turned my uni-student themed house into a home. I embraced life here and found it to be rewarding even with the frustrations.

Then I hit another wall. As I close in on a decade I realize neither the company nor the country really want me here for another decade. While I don't regret my time here, I also know that either I leave on my own terms or I will become entrenched and bitter and all the good memories of my time here will scatter like a fart in the wind.

I have an exit strategy and time line. It's nothing drastic or rash, but it includes some time off from working to re-calibrate some of my Dubaisms. I'll be debt free and money in my pocket, and am determined to not look back at my time here and think it wasted.

Truth is, when I get on that flight home with just a backpack slung over my shoulder and hear my final "yis boss".. i'm gonna miss this place.
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 09:56
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: OneDegSouth
Posts: 69
Excellent post. 👏🏻. Pretty much sums up my time here exactly!

Nothing rash but the exit is being planned in the same manner.
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 10:03
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 4,084
Originally Posted by Neptune Spear View Post
I have said it before here many times but just like Sops Iíll say it again. Get out of Emirates as quick as you can. Youíll be so much better off in every aspect.
I remember a while back some lad here was bragging about how he wouldn't go to Delta because they don't give him a ride in a silver chauffeured limo and cash per diem in local currency at the hotel.
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 10:04
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hole
Posts: 29
out of curiosity, how much money are you able to put aside on an average month? thanks!
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 10:24
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: hang on let me check
Posts: 330
Originally Posted by RemoveB4Flght View Post
Came here at a low point, laid off and not many opportunities. Thought it would be a 1-2 year stint, an asterisk in my career.

First year was a typical Dubai experience of Brunches, Holidays, and expenditures.

Second year was frugal as I figured another opportunity was imminent and i should just work and save. Downsized my car, my flat, and paid off a fair chunk of my debts and was ready to "go"".

Third year was a low point, until I came to a realization that I was living and working here. I needed to be "here". I (politely) avoided other pilots and families who basically lived like I was, one foot out the door and constantly b*tching about the company, country, and counting the days until the next holiday "home". I made friends with long term expats rather than the 1-2 year contract crowd.

The next few years were my favorite here. I pursued new interests and rediscovered old ones. I turned my uni-student themed house into a home. I embraced life here and found it to be rewarding even with the frustrations.

Then I hit another wall. As I close in on a decade I realize neither the company nor the country really want me here for another decade. While I don't regret my time here, I also know that either I leave on my own terms or I will become entrenched and bitter and all the good memories of my time here will scatter like a fart in the wind.

I have an exit strategy and time line. It's nothing drastic or rash, but it includes some time off from working to re-calibrate some of my Dubaisms. I'll be debt free and money in my pocket, and am determined to not look back at my time here and think it wasted.

Truth is, when I get on that flight home with just a backpack slung over my shoulder and hear my final "yis boss".. i'm gonna miss this place.
You could say this about every place I lived in the last 15 years
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 11:01
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 49
Posts: 2,536
Originally Posted by airbubba
silver chauffeured limo
Silver maybe... But chauffeur and limo?
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 11:20
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK/UAE
Posts: 551
Having dealt with 4 airline failures and having avoided a 5th (let you guess that one) I thought I’d add my perspective here.
Just like everyone else I’ve been through the gambit of emotions and stages that everyone seems to here, that being said, after I’d been here 7 years I suddenly realised that I had the financial monkey off my back. Along the way I’ve actively avoided any significant involvement with other EK colleagues and I’ve made a concerted effort to ignore all the moans, groans, missives, FCI’s, ACI’s, company updates, training edicts and the half a hundred other small cuts and directives imposed at various times.
The result is that I go to work with a mindset of looking after myself and my crew first and foremost without ever being concerned about fleet or the other oxygen thieves.
This place is what you make of it, I couldn’t give too sh1ts about the locals, the airline or the BS that other people mistakenly believe they can change. When I leave here my kids will have been adequately educated, my mortgage will be 0 and I will have enough invested to see myself and my good wife into a long retirement, until then, when you work with me I will be the first to buy you a beer and laugh at the @ssholes we work for.
I should add that with a little bit of thought it’s been very easy to continue to bring 4 litres of fire water back into these uncivilised parts.
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 11:27
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 4,084
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
Silver maybe... But chauffeur and limo?
Well, he actually said that Delta wouldn't give him a 'silver Chauffeur [sic] sedan to and from Atlanta airport from my house'.

Some of those poor Deltoids have to drive their own Ford F150's from Peachtree City to the employee parking lot.
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 12:08
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 316
I have had enough here too.

When I joined it was a far far different company to what it is today, people were generally happier and the mood was so much brighter. I wasn't flying my ass off, crazy tired and constantly struggling with close to minimum days off and 90+ hours month in month out.

I was proud to work for Emirates at that stage, then things slowly started to change. Now I go to work, do my job and countdown till I leave. There is ridiculous pressure from management and the threat based environment they have created, whilst sticking their head in the sand and telling everyone that there is no threat is crazy. Silly little petty rules that are brought in that don't save money but just cause bad feeling and resentment, examples of which are no more duty-free, no more than 1 day off before/after leave, not being allowed to officially bring in anything that doesn't fit in your suitcase etc etc. When management know the mood amongst the flight and cabin crew and yet they seemingly go out of their way to make things more miserable. Why???

The one thing that is still reasonable, depending on the length of service and position, is the salary. Even the salary is however rapidly spiraling southwards with no pay raises, no step increases, whilst inflation, tax and excise duties eat away bit by bit. Is it any wonder the few they get to join still are from somewhat disadvantaged countries or those are desperate for a jet rating.

I do however still look at friends in the western countries who struggle to make ends meet and when I'm feeling low remind myself of a reasonably bright future should I keep saving. In most countries things for the average worker are not bright and shiny, unfortunately, we are starting to feel that too.

I suffer this today for the quality of life tomorrow, I just hope I make it to tomorrow with the crazy workload and management environment we have these days.

Last edited by felixthecat; 14th Jan 2018 at 13:59.
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 12:46
  #37 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,642
And Felix, this is were you have to be careful. You 'suffer" today for the hope of a better life tomorrow. And when what is your cut off point between suffering today and a good life tomorrow?

Speak to Harry..all s good. Speak to me...I think you should get your arse out of there yesterday.....its all up to you.

But as I have said before...if you were lying on your death bed right now...would you say...I wish I had spent one ,ore year in EK" ?
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 13:18
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: About
Posts: 190
Problem is Monarch Man even with that attitude what happens when something happens that’s out of your control and the companies first reaction is to fire you? I’m sure even you would be slightly pissed if you were the augmenting Captain or FO on 207 (or any of the multiple other examples we could list) and through no fault of your own your job was on the line? That’s not much of a way to live your life or really enjoy work is it? I too try to ignore the missives however the constant attacks and blatant lies and disrespect eventually wear even the strongest person down and it’s sad that pretty much everyone on the line is unhappy and fearful for the future. Surely that’s causing long term damage to both the employees and the company?
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 13:38
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: FL370
Posts: 134
I agree with you SOPS however we can't all drive trains for a living (in fact, in my home country the working schedules are terrible). So like Felix, I will slog it out for a while longer so that when I do finally leave EK i won't have to worry about the next sh***y airline that I will have to work for. This life just isn't what I signed up for, and I can't see the next place being any better.......
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 14:28
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cyprus
Posts: 232
Excellent posts by all. Rather sad though. I got 17 years in the ME but booted out for being, as my ex CP told me over a JD & coke (that I bought him) for being a pain in the rectum ! Cared too much. Glad to be out of it and all of you lining your pockets & dreaming of retirement, keep on. It is rough & not the same but boy, I have loved my last 8 years in the Cyprus sun, bobbing about in my Lidle's inflatable, spilling my JD & Coke and shouting at Nigel as he still gets that final base turn all wrong over my pool ! Still treasure the fondest of times.


Was recently asked by a wannabe if I could recommend the career. Spilled my Jack down the front of my Aya Nappa Hard Rock shirt !
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