Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Pay Scales

Old 11th Oct 2016, 15:38
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Somewhere near an Airport
Age: 38
Posts: 319
That is a sad fact . And a 5 year bond for Type rated and experienced guys, atrocious. They know that people would want to leave in no time. I wonder who wants to join them with these T&C.
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Old 11th Oct 2016, 16:00
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Escaped the sandpit 53 32′ 9.19″ N, 9 50′ 13.29″ E
Posts: 596
Originally Posted by Flyboy_SG View Post
That is a sad fact . And a 5 year bond for Type rated and experienced guys, atrocious. They know that people would want to leave in no time. I wonder who wants to join them with these T&C.
Enough people with widebody fever available. If not, lower the requirements.
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Old 11th Oct 2016, 16:42
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UAE
Age: 61
Posts: 35
I was hired in June of 2008, I am in my 9th year.

I am an F/O by choice, my base pay is 30,405 AED and flight pay is 55 AED an hour, that equals 35,080 AED per month.

Emirates is willing to paying 9th year F/O salary for a level 2 F/O, not a bad deal, wish they had that when I joined, not sure about the year of captain pay, but I would guess it is about the same.

But here is the problem as I see it, for the F/O's who are looking at this, Emirates needs "baby sitters" and please don't get me wrong, Emirates pilots are some of the best I have flown with in just over 40 years of flying and 32 years with different airlines, not sure who wants the "level 2", maybe it is the insurance companies or just knee jerk stuff, but you will be coming here to sit next to captains that are "level 1" in the eyes of the powers in charge, and you most likely be there for a long, long time.

Emirates is not going to grow, just look at what is going on in the "real" world, and what CM is best at, this is aviation, things change, there are is no such thing as how many years to "command".

So with all that said, if I were a young guy looking to be a captain in a few years, be careful, but, if you are a DEC or a old F/O looking for a job and do not care about upgrade, this is as good as it gets in the ME.

Last edited by north flyer; 11th Oct 2016 at 17:59.
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Old 11th Oct 2016, 17:57
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: outerspace
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by north flyer View Post
I was hired in June of 2008, I am in my 9th year.

I am an F/O by choice, my base pay is 30,405 AED and flight pay is 55 AED an hour, that equals 35,080 AED per month.

Emirates is willing to paying 9th year F/O salary for a level 2 F/O, not a bad deal, wish they had that when I joined, not sure about the year of captain pay, but I would guess it is about the same.

But here is the problem as I see it, for the F/O's who are looking at this, Emirates needs "baby sitters" and please don't get me wrong, Emirates pilots are some of the best I have flown with in just over 40 years of flying and 32 years with different airlines, not sure who wants the "level 2", maybe it is the insurance companies or just knee jerk stuff, but you will be coming here to sit next to captains that are "level 1" in the eyes of the powers in charge, and you most likely be there for a long, long time.

Emirates is not going to grow, just look at what is going on in the "real" world, and what CM is bes at, this is aviation, things change, there are is no such thing as how many years to "command".

So with all that said, if I were a young guy looking to be a captain in a few years, be careful, but, if you a DEC or a old F/O looking for a job and do not care about upgrade, this is as good as it gets in the ME.
spot on,north flyer

we used to have 1 salary scale: you get hired you are on step 1, when you are upgraded you jump 10 steps (suppose after 4 yrs = you go step 14). DEC get hired step 13 to start with.. we used to have 22 step increment for captain (step 14 to 35) and 13 for FOs(FO cannot go higher then step 13)...this new "thing" change the prospective...wonder if a new hired FO is aware that if he does not upgrade in 4yrs (very unlikely) he will be shafted....hello tomorrow

Last edited by CTWO; 12th Oct 2016 at 04:51.
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 04:24
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 25
But I guess the deal for a Type 1 FO is significantly lower than previous...not much a good deal anymore, or maybe never was?
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 10:46
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Up in the air
Posts: 547
Originally Posted by Yorkshire_Pudding View Post
Dirhams stay in Dubai! Depending on your circumstances (sounds like you have kids), you won't be sending much home anyway.

Fast command? I think there are plenty of FO ready for upgrade. Summer 2011 joiners currently upgrading. I know 2012 joiners who have been told 30 months (7 years to upgrade). There is no expansion and close 2,000 FO ahead of you. Wheres does your upgrade come from?
Late Sep-11 joiners already finished upgrade...
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 10:50
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Up in the air
Posts: 547
Originally Posted by lostinspace89 View Post
Base pay before was circa 29000 dhs, so for a new FO on level 1 we're talking about a circa 4000 dhs decrease per month in base pay and 10,000 dhs decrease per year in housing....

Does this mean even current new joiners will have to fall under this salary decrease. 4000 dhs decrease per month is pretty sad, that makes about 48,000 dhs less per year.
No, there has been no decrease in "Level1", entry level basic pay was and still is circa 25400.
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 15:43
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: In the desert
Posts: 50
I find the whole thing absolutely disgusting.... why, after a few years in the company, should I be paid less than a level 2, or whatever the name is, new joiner?
Another slap in the face! Hello tomorrow, hell today. Keep discovering.
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 17:06
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Red Star
Posts: 55
As a direct entry Captain on our Boeing 777 fleet you must meet these minimum requirements:

7000 hours total flying time
3000 hours command time on multi-crew, multi-engine commercial jet aircraft with a MTOW of 50 tonnes or more
Currently type-rated as a commander on an aircraft such as B737 (or larger)
Flown at least 150 hours in command in the 12 months before joining Emirates
ICAO English level 5 or above (or equivalent)
At least 1000 hours of wide body aircraft and long haul experience in the last 3 years
If your experience as a Captain exceeds our minimum requirements, you may be entitled to an enhanced package. This is based on:

7000 hours command time flying an aircraft with a MTOW of 50 tonnes or more; of which
4000 hours are on B744, B777 or B787 and;
Currently type-rated as a commander on an aircraft such as B737 (or larger)
500 hours were flown in the last 12 months before joining Emirates
ICAO English level 6 (or equivalent)
This is a no go for the loco pilots in the world. I've read about DEC from Ryan, Wizz, etc, but there is a requirement for wide body experience that few loco drivers have.
Am I missing something?

Who are they targeting?
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 17:38
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Escaped the sandpit 53 32′ 9.19″ N, 9 50′ 13.29″ E
Posts: 596
Originally Posted by Xiamen View Post
This is a no go for the loco pilots in the world. I've read about DEC from Ryan, Wizz, etc, but there is a requirement for wide body experience that few loco drivers have.
Am I missing something?

Who are they targeting?
Maybe retired LH skippers....
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 17:48
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Red Star
Posts: 55
Well, yes, but those would be wide body captains.
I don't understand the narrow body focus. How many 737 drivers are there with 1000 hrs wide body time?
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 17:49
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 112
Year after year no more than step increase.......then this??? Insulting.....

Unless they match this 'Level 2 salary' to the experienced FO's / Capts already here who match this criteria..........unlikely
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 17:57
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,923
Is this any different to junior Boeing FOs, getting promoted before and getting better T&Cs than than the more senior Bus FOs?

Same same but different.

Advertising for these level two dudes, and actually having them apply, pass the recruitment stuff and get hired will be two very different things me thinks.
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 18:02
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: xxx
Posts: 106
LEVEL 2 FO, opens the door for DEFO with rapid command, to shaft the FO again.
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 18:07
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: xxx
Posts: 106
LEVEL 2 COM : is excactly the profile for ex Air France, Swiss, LH who have to stop working with 60years of age. they get another fett 5 years. - and the advantage is you will find some shafted FO again - isnt that cool
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 18:17
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 226
This is a no go for the loco pilots in the world. I've read about DEC from Ryan, Wizz, etc, but there is a requirement for wide body experience that few loco drivers have.
Am I missing something?

Who are they targeting?
Or maybe they don't even know...
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 18:33
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Midlands
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by WB1900 View Post
LEVEL 2 COM : is excactly the profile for ex Air France, Swiss, LH who have to stop working with 60years of age. they get another fett 5 years. - and the advantage is you will find some shafted FO again - isnt that cool
If I was a retiring widebody skipper from any of those flag carriers, the only reason I would be going to work in Dubai would be if my pension income was being raided by a few much-younger ex-wives.

Maybe they should introduce a 3rd divorce as a requirement for Level 2 DEC.
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 19:17
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Varies!
Posts: 727
OR

Well, considering there were a few ex BA guys working for Monarch/First Choice and a few other UK charters in the past, when retirement was at 55, I don't see what's so unusual to come here for a few years.

Especially if they're from the UK, with the current exchange rate they'd be clearing over double what you're taking home at JET 2 right now....even without the accommodation allowance. Still, if those outfits are really as good as everyone's always claiming, why bother anyway.....not matter how many ex wives. More money you earn, the more they get.
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Old 13th Oct 2016, 10:39
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Sharp End.
Posts: 433
Just got an email from our 'enry, more half baked attempts...
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Old 13th Oct 2016, 10:43
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: LHR
Posts: 325
Yeah, seems he only sent through half of the email. He forgot the bit where it mentions that those who meet the requirements currently in the company will have their salaries bought in line with the new improved conditions.
I'm sure he'll realize his error and send through the completed version later today. After all the people that are working to enable this company to continue their expansion come first and will be rewarded accordingly.....Right?

Last edited by Cloud Bunny; 13th Oct 2016 at 11:05.
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