Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

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Old 17th Sep 2016, 07:51
  #21 (permalink)  
Kapitanleutnant
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Alas....

CM too will hit the all too familiar brick wall every other flight management type has tried to break thru.

The only way things will change at EK IMO is if CM can somehow put a little simple logic and reality into AAR's head. Whether that will happen... we wait to see.

I still think Wasta wins....

K
 
Old 17th Sep 2016, 08:02
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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The slowing of cabin crew recruiting for a few months is because main fleet only crew are now being cross trained onto the 380. Some part time SEP trainers have been released back to the line. All back to normal in NOV.

Last edited by donpizmeov; 17th Sep 2016 at 15:36.
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Old 17th Sep 2016, 08:03
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Jungle drum says huge DEC drive for the 777. 777 Capts to be sent to the 380.
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Old 17th Sep 2016, 08:48
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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But who trains the DEC's and the transferred Capt's???
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Old 17th Sep 2016, 09:00
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Good point. Well presented.
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Old 17th Sep 2016, 11:28
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Don, pure propaganda or the party line whoever told you that, yes there's truth in what you say, but the greater truth is what I posted. As ever the reality is hidden behind layers of spin and opinion, my info came from someone who if I gave specific details of what they told me would potentially identify them, and no it's not come from someone in fleet or training etc.
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Old 17th Sep 2016, 12:23
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
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CC recruitment has not been stopped - multiple assessment days through November.

Batch numbers reduced to eight per month and part time CC trainers put back on line.

All CC to be fully cross trained by Feb - original plan was Nov

The age 35 is NOT a PPRuNe rumor - it is being discussed above.
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Old 17th Sep 2016, 12:51
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fliion View Post
The age 35 is NOT a PPRuNe rumor - it is being discussed above.
Even by EK's recent standards, this one sounds rather outlandish. Quite a few guys who upgraded over the last year are under 35 and will be for a few years to come, so what happens to them if it somehow did get approved? Not to mention the immediate exodus of sub 35yr old SFO's it would trigger. Just what's needed right about now eh?!
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Old 18th Sep 2016, 04:39
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Is it possible that the age requirement is something that comes from our insurance providers after our incident?
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Old 18th Sep 2016, 17:34
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Is it possible that the age requirement is something that comes from our insurance providers after our incident?
It might have done if the pilots concerned were under 35...I'm pretty sure not the case this time.
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Old 18th Sep 2016, 19:25
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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It might have done if the pilots concerned were under 35...I'm pretty sure not the case t
Captain in the incident was 34- so I'm pretty sure you are wrong
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Old 18th Sep 2016, 19:27
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Gents,

The age thing is completely idiotic. A lot of us who joined EK at a young age and are now approaching 5 years in the company, some of us having done the IVs already and will leave "en masse" if this happens. Im young enough to go and start all over in another airline or take a gamble. There are several airlines taking experienced FOs as DECs, like Spring Airlines for example.

Come this age thing... the very next day they will be unable to recruit a single pilot from a LCC.
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Old 18th Sep 2016, 19:33
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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X bleed open - see you at Spring Airlines - Junior 😜
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Old 19th Sep 2016, 01:42
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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X bleed, you had better start looking!!
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Old 19th Sep 2016, 02:48
  #35 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
 
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I can imagine just how much of a sickener it would be to be told that the age for a wide body command is 35 but that age is by no means unusual, I have seen it in at least two ops manuals. Possibly a bit easier to take if it is the printed word before one joins. Don't count on any 'mass exodus' either, often talked about, rarely, if ever, happen.
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Old 19th Sep 2016, 07:55
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
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They are sending experienced captains back to the right seat, don't think for a minute they would hesitate to make 35 a requirement. I've heard they are willing to park more airplanes as a result of any "exodus" to satisfy whomever is dictating these new terms. As far as not being able to recruit from the LCCs, I'm sure thats been considered. Maybe they've decided they don't need them or don't want them.
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Old 19th Sep 2016, 08:23
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
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X-Bleed,

Generally we all believe that EK recruitment do a great job considering every aspect of your experience and personality before joining.
The problem is that once you arrive in the Middle East you know ‘nothing’!

Traditionally experience within the airline has only been measured in terms of kilograms.
Consideration of the number of sectors flown, T/Offs and LDGs completed, ETOPS twins vs quads, stick time vs bunk time, merit vs seniority, and age vs maturity, have never really played a part in any upgrade deliberations.

I have no objection with considering the 35 year age limit, but believe a more holistic approach to respecting experience should be conducted, and a more robust policy created that doesn't change every five minutes.
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Old 19th Sep 2016, 09:20
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Well I don't know... but what I know is that when I did my IV no one said anything besides the fact that I was the right profile and I was ready for the course. Now they want me to wait 5, I say again 5 more years After I have been flying 10 already? What can I do If I started at a young age on a jet? I have met the requirements to upgrade as per the current OMA by FAR!

So what, now a guy with 35 years old and the bare minimum upgrade requirements is better than a 30 year old with say 3000h more, only because he was born earlier? Bulls**t! Most of The affected young guys were captains before or even trainers in previous reputable airlines back in US or Europe.

How about the guys that are already under 35? What about the 5/6 guys that arr about to finish their upgrades as we speak and are below 30? All of a sudden they are not good anymore? Come on please! This is idiotic!!

The problem is that the cadets, that have 7000h actually have about half of that and very few landings/approaches/sectors. Hence why I think the new policy about stick time is a partial patch to what needs to be revisited in the first place. But guys like us who come from LCC with 4000landings on 320, countless deicings and Low Viz Ops, and then 5 years in EK are now not good all of a sudden because of the year we were born?

Please, don't make me laugh. Check the seniority list and tell me at least 400 FOs born after say 1986 (30yo at the moment) will not send the CVs around the very next day this thing comes to live!

They are screwing with the only guys that were still "happy" here... the ones that were keen tp stay here another 10/15 years and the guys who were the future of this airline.

They have already screwed the more senior guys beyond remedy, let's now make sure EVERYONE is ready to leave as soon as they have a feasible option.

Name one time please in which young age has been the main cause of an accident in aviation. Or even better, how different would the outcome of EK521 have been if they were both 35? Come on... seriously.

Last edited by X-BleedOpen; 19th Sep 2016 at 09:39.
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Old 19th Sep 2016, 09:43
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Originally Posted by X-BleedOpen View Post
Well I don't know... but what I know is that when I did my IV no one said anything besides the fact that I was the right profile and I was ready for the course. Now they want me to wait 5, I say again 5 more years After I have been flying 10 already? What can I do If I started at a young age on a jet? I have met the requirements to upgrade as per the current OMA by FAR!

So what, now a guy with 35 years old and the bare minimum upgrade requirements is better than a 30 year old with say 3000h more, only because he was born earlier? Bulls**t! Most of The affected young guys were captains before or even trainers in previous reputable airlines back in US or Europe.

How about the guys that are already under 35? What about the 5/6 guys that arr about to finish their upgrades as we speak and are below 30? All of a sudden they are not good anymore? Come on please! This is idiotic!!

The problem is that the cadets, that have 7000h actually have about half of that and very few landings/approaches/sectors. Hence why I think the new policy about stick time is a partial patch to what needs to be revisited in the first place. But guys like us who come from LCC with 4000landings on 320, countless deicings and Low Viz Ops, and then 5 years in EK are now not good all of a sudden because of the year we were born?

Please, don't make me laugh. Check the seniority list and tell me at least 400 FOs born after say 1986 (30yo at the moment) will not send the CVs around the very next day this thing comes to live!

They are screwing with the only guys that were still "happy" here... the ones that were keen tp stay here another 10/15 years and the guys who were the future of this airline.

They have already screwed the more senior guys beyond remedy, let's now make sure EVERYONE is ready to leave as soon as they have a feasible option.

Name one time please in which young age has been the main cause of an accident in aviation. Or even better, how different would the outcome of EK521 have been if they were both 35? Come on... seriously.
No offense but I think you have just found out what EK is really about. Better sooner rather than later if you ask me.
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Old 19th Sep 2016, 09:47
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Originally Posted by AMEX View Post
No offense but I think you have just found out what EK is really about. Better sooner rather than later if you ask me.
None taken. But I would have though this "incident" would lead to changes that are REALLY NEEDED! Not to stupid and pointless knee jerks that will not only not fix anything, but that will rather cause a fire to start elsewhere!

Good luck to them crewing the airplanes, and thanks god I kept my 320 and 330 current.
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