No Comms...
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 768
Likes: 0
From: Dubai
But I would have though this "incident" would lead to changes that are REALLY NEEDED! Not to stupid and pointless knee jerks that will not only not fix anything, but that will rather cause a fire to start elsewhere!
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 0
From: usa
X bleed
They don't care. If you want to get a real sense of the 'pedigree of consideration' in these parts - do a basic search on how many of the destitute Syrian refugees were taken by countries in the region.
From the same religion of brotherhood, love & peace...none.
Keep emotions in check - it's business, they are here to squeeze the expat lemons. We have all sold a little bit of ourselves to be here.
As to threads of happiness from the young guns....just give it time...the naïveté will vanish.
Take them for what you can then leave at a time of your choice. It might be more of a kick in the balls to them if the 30-35 yr olds waited, got their four bars and buggered off straight after.
Methinks this one might be a bridge too far even for them. 35+ DECs , maybe.
They don't care. If you want to get a real sense of the 'pedigree of consideration' in these parts - do a basic search on how many of the destitute Syrian refugees were taken by countries in the region.
From the same religion of brotherhood, love & peace...none.
Keep emotions in check - it's business, they are here to squeeze the expat lemons. We have all sold a little bit of ourselves to be here.
As to threads of happiness from the young guns....just give it time...the naïveté will vanish.
Take them for what you can then leave at a time of your choice. It might be more of a kick in the balls to them if the 30-35 yr olds waited, got their four bars and buggered off straight after.
Methinks this one might be a bridge too far even for them. 35+ DECs , maybe.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
From: At 41300ft
Whatever it is guys, it's completely stupid. There is no other way to put it.
And the cadets? 15 years to upgrade? Come on please...
What are they trying to achieve? And 32 on 777? Ahhaahha so wait a minute, this is a knee jerk reaction to EK521 and they put an age on the fleet where it happened lower than on the other one? Failure rate, regardless of age, has been very low, and the current reqs are fair. Increase the hours, change the selection process, but age? Come on... they are forcing me to leave.
And the cadets? 15 years to upgrade? Come on please...
What are they trying to achieve? And 32 on 777? Ahhaahha so wait a minute, this is a knee jerk reaction to EK521 and they put an age on the fleet where it happened lower than on the other one? Failure rate, regardless of age, has been very low, and the current reqs are fair. Increase the hours, change the selection process, but age? Come on... they are forcing me to leave.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
From: uk
Historically the time to upgrade in the legacy carriers for a long haul spot used to be just that, 15-17 years! Sometimes even longer.
I know this from family experience, my dear old Dad was 17 years in the rhs in BOAC before his Command. His course lasted 12 months with every sector being assessed in the most minute detail, as well as his deportment and dress whilst on layovers!!
Now I know times change, however, it would be strange if the Upgrade policy was NOT changed in line with the ever changing company entry requirements. After all historically everyone coming to EK had had a command before arriving.
Without doubt IF the age bar comes in , it will be a serious blow to those caught in the fallout zone.
Though it must be said, and I stand by with my tin hat for the fall out incoming,
there is a measurable difference in maturity between those pre and post 35.
Maybe it is the arrival of ankle snappers, the loss of the flush of youth or even the arrival of one's first grey hair(or loss of one's luscious locks!!).
Let us remember this is a very serious business, as 521 is a timely reminder.
If the owners of the train set want to change the demographic in the LHS it is their prerogative, it is also their weight to bear when and if a whole age group resigns en mass.
I know this from family experience, my dear old Dad was 17 years in the rhs in BOAC before his Command. His course lasted 12 months with every sector being assessed in the most minute detail, as well as his deportment and dress whilst on layovers!!
Now I know times change, however, it would be strange if the Upgrade policy was NOT changed in line with the ever changing company entry requirements. After all historically everyone coming to EK had had a command before arriving.
Without doubt IF the age bar comes in , it will be a serious blow to those caught in the fallout zone.
Though it must be said, and I stand by with my tin hat for the fall out incoming,
there is a measurable difference in maturity between those pre and post 35.
Maybe it is the arrival of ankle snappers, the loss of the flush of youth or even the arrival of one's first grey hair(or loss of one's luscious locks!!).
Let us remember this is a very serious business, as 521 is a timely reminder.
If the owners of the train set want to change the demographic in the LHS it is their prerogative, it is also their weight to bear when and if a whole age group resigns en mass.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,118
Likes: 140
From: overthere
They seem to be worried about experience levels, but are still happy to let experienced fellas walk out the door. This has been mentioned time after time at wash ups and the like.
But they still don't get it. Some rocks show more intelligence than this lot.
But they still don't get it. Some rocks show more intelligence than this lot.
Joined: Nov 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
From: Terra Firma
I'm sure we have all heard....
"Ye gets what ye pays for"!!
It used to be difficult to get into EK, experience levels were high pre entry, most were a Captain on joining. Even the entry into training now (for some) doesn't require any pre evaluation (interview or psych testing). Desperate times, desperate measures.
Those who value themselves to be worth greater than the fallinging pay, conditions and respect have used their greater wisdom to take their experience to pastures anew.
Definition of insanity, doing the same thing time and time again and expecting a different result. The MOST valuable asset in any company are the people or workforce. How many times have we been saying this over the years! It appears that if the self praise on certain floors is high, then all must be fine.
As CM states, "You cannot change a company without changing the management", time will tell.
Good day
Jack
"Ye gets what ye pays for"!!
It used to be difficult to get into EK, experience levels were high pre entry, most were a Captain on joining. Even the entry into training now (for some) doesn't require any pre evaluation (interview or psych testing). Desperate times, desperate measures.
Those who value themselves to be worth greater than the fallinging pay, conditions and respect have used their greater wisdom to take their experience to pastures anew.
Definition of insanity, doing the same thing time and time again and expecting a different result. The MOST valuable asset in any company are the people or workforce. How many times have we been saying this over the years! It appears that if the self praise on certain floors is high, then all must be fine.
As CM states, "You cannot change a company without changing the management", time will tell.
Good day
Jack
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 0
From: usa
So the minimum experience level of a new LTC on the 777 can be less than than the 330/340 Capt who is only now qualified to be an FO on the 380?
What is wrong with these people?
What is wrong with these people?
Last edited by fliion; 20th September 2016 at 08:49.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: here and there, mostly there...
Change
I wonder if there will be subtle changes or if they come with a big bang, as a result of the arrival of our German friend.
The eventual departure of AAR will result in parties all over the world, but lets get not to far ahead of the game...
Does wasta ever runs out? We will know within 12 months I guess.
N.👍
The eventual departure of AAR will result in parties all over the world, but lets get not to far ahead of the game...
Does wasta ever runs out? We will know within 12 months I guess.
N.👍
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
From: nowhere
English is not my main language so probably i don't understand all what you guys say.
Is this german guy some kind of saviour?
For what i read he just cuts jobs........
I don't really understand all these great expectations......
But maybe its me that i cant understand the point
Is this german guy some kind of saviour?
For what i read he just cuts jobs........
I don't really understand all these great expectations......
But maybe its me that i cant understand the point
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: here and there, mostly there...
Most if the things written on pprune have double meanings...
Nobody knows if CM will bring good things.
But it gives just a bit of hope in these tough times we live in as crews. E.g. Just the thought that because if him, AAR might be moved to the side gives me the will to live another month orso..😜
Dont take stuff written here as truth. Take from it what you can use, drop the rest.
N.👍
Nobody knows if CM will bring good things.
But it gives just a bit of hope in these tough times we live in as crews. E.g. Just the thought that because if him, AAR might be moved to the side gives me the will to live another month orso..😜
Dont take stuff written here as truth. Take from it what you can use, drop the rest.
N.👍