B777 Emergency DXB
Join Date: Nov 2009
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I agree with Dropp that there is some facets of the system that are helpful and what Trader mentions about common sense, however that will never be allowed here and they will continue to proceeduralize the pilots out of the cockpit because of their own inadequacies in hiring and training. Its too big to change now.
RAAS won't even be a contributory cause because the company was big in helping with its development....to say otherwise would be an admission of a mistake from their perspective. Also, there is no environment of fear as "we have a non-punitive safety reporting culture" (hard to get that one out...)
But it would appear the pilots will eat it this time and I can't say I'd disagree with the assessment...If you bend a perfectly serviceable airplane by landing it gear up...who else can you blame captain?
RAAS won't even be a contributory cause because the company was big in helping with its development....to say otherwise would be an admission of a mistake from their perspective. Also, there is no environment of fear as "we have a non-punitive safety reporting culture" (hard to get that one out...)
But it would appear the pilots will eat it this time and I can't say I'd disagree with the assessment...If you bend a perfectly serviceable airplane by landing it gear up...who else can you blame captain?
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Do I understand correctly? The autothrust did not command TOGA as the plane had already touched and the engines were at idle until almost impact when the guys finally advanced the levers? Sorry I drive the BUS ..
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Austria
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SOPS:
They were probably thinking about their warning letters beeing printed already
Halas:
spot on!
3floor muppets with their threats were most likely in their mind
what a f... up culture
In freedom: bravo, well said
They were probably thinking about their warning letters beeing printed already
Halas:
spot on!
3floor muppets with their threats were most likely in their mind
what a f... up culture
In freedom: bravo, well said
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: LLLL
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G/A
Question here for the 777 guys.
I understand auto throttle logic will change etc but during training for Go arounds isn't everyone always taught to press toga and push the thrust levers forward ? Is it different at EK ?
Am I missing something ?
I understand auto throttle logic will change etc but during training for Go arounds isn't everyone always taught to press toga and push the thrust levers forward ? Is it different at EK ?
Am I missing something ?
Join Date: Sep 2007
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12 seconds of no thrust after go around attempted.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
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Or the equally dangerous but far more common occurrence of calling positive climb on the ivsi not the altimeter..
Had another one this morning.. didn't even wait till the autobrake had clicked off.. (facepalm)
Had another one this morning.. didn't even wait till the autobrake had clicked off.. (facepalm)
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Escaped the sandpit 53° 32′ 9.19″ N, 9° 50′ 13.29″ E
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: India
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Not a pilot...
So from what I understand....
1. A 16 knot tailwind caused a Long Landing. The RAAS called "Long Landing Long Landing" hence SOP says a go around is mandatory? Even if there is enough runway left to safely land the bird?
2. The RAAS called out just on or just after the initial touchdown leading to the TO/GA switch being clicked post initial touchdown? Both PF/PM forgot that the TO/GA is disabled after touchdown?
3. PF/PM did not have hand on the thrust levers to monitor engine spool and increase thrust manually? More concerned about pitch and flaps? Is that SOP too?
4. Did the PM call out Positive Climb too soon? Without confirming thrust increase? Leading to the gear being retracted too soon?
5. It took them 12 seconds to realize that they were climbing without thrust? Is that a normal reaction time after clicking the TO/GA?
6. Is the disabling of the autopilot system on touchdown stressed in the recertification process? The PF had his recert in May.
Is this all a sequence of a series of oversights and errors?
We're all human. Mistakes do happen. But were these aggravated by existing SOP?
Must commend the cabin crew for the orderly and quick evacuation using the very few available and usable exits.
So from what I understand....
1. A 16 knot tailwind caused a Long Landing. The RAAS called "Long Landing Long Landing" hence SOP says a go around is mandatory? Even if there is enough runway left to safely land the bird?
2. The RAAS called out just on or just after the initial touchdown leading to the TO/GA switch being clicked post initial touchdown? Both PF/PM forgot that the TO/GA is disabled after touchdown?
3. PF/PM did not have hand on the thrust levers to monitor engine spool and increase thrust manually? More concerned about pitch and flaps? Is that SOP too?
4. Did the PM call out Positive Climb too soon? Without confirming thrust increase? Leading to the gear being retracted too soon?
5. It took them 12 seconds to realize that they were climbing without thrust? Is that a normal reaction time after clicking the TO/GA?
6. Is the disabling of the autopilot system on touchdown stressed in the recertification process? The PF had his recert in May.
Is this all a sequence of a series of oversights and errors?
We're all human. Mistakes do happen. But were these aggravated by existing SOP?
Must commend the cabin crew for the orderly and quick evacuation using the very few available and usable exits.
Join Date: Jun 2010
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ExDubai
"At 0837:38, the Aircraft aft fuselage impacted the runway abeam the November 7 intersection at 125 knots, with a nose-up pitch angle of 9.5 degrees, and at a rate of descent of 900 feet per minute. This was followed by the impact of the engines on the runway. The three landing gears were still in transit to the retracted position.
"Approximately one minute after, the Commander transmitted a “MAYDAY” call and informed air traffic control that the Aircraft was being evacuated."
"Together with the fire commander, the first vehicle of the airport rescue and firefighting service (ARFFS) arrived at the Accident site within one minute of the Aircraft coming to rest and immediately started to apply foam."
Just read
it carefully
"At 0837:38, the Aircraft aft fuselage impacted the runway abeam the November 7 intersection at 125 knots, with a nose-up pitch angle of 9.5 degrees, and at a rate of descent of 900 feet per minute. This was followed by the impact of the engines on the runway. The three landing gears were still in transit to the retracted position.
"Approximately one minute after, the Commander transmitted a “MAYDAY” call and informed air traffic control that the Aircraft was being evacuated."
"Together with the fire commander, the first vehicle of the airport rescue and firefighting service (ARFFS) arrived at the Accident site within one minute of the Aircraft coming to rest and immediately started to apply foam."
Just read
it carefully
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
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COMPANY NOTAM - WEIGHT ON WHEELS/SMART LANDING
WEIGHT ON WHEELS LOGIC MAY CAUSE SMART LANDING "LONG LANDING, LONG
LANDING" ALERTS AFTER TOUCHDN. IF "LONG LANDING" ALERT OCCURS AFTER
TOUCHDN APPLY BRKING AND REV APPROPRIATE FOR OPERATIONAL CONDITIONS
Thoughts?
WEIGHT ON WHEELS LOGIC MAY CAUSE SMART LANDING "LONG LANDING, LONG
LANDING" ALERTS AFTER TOUCHDN. IF "LONG LANDING" ALERT OCCURS AFTER
TOUCHDN APPLY BRKING AND REV APPROPRIATE FOR OPERATIONAL CONDITIONS
Thoughts?
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Do we see a common thread here? Turkish in Amsterdam-hands not on the throttles. Asiana in San Fran-hands not on the throttles. And now (very possibly), EK in DXB-hands not on the throttles.
Obviously, training for Boeing pilots lacking in some basic airmanship. Oh, but I bet the FMA was called correctly. Pilots trained on modern jet liners with only auto throttles. Despite some anomalies with regard to the Boeing AFDS, fly the frackin' machine one is in.
Can you believe that there was even the consideration that all 380 landings were to be auto lands? There had been some high value customer complaints about some less than stellar landings, from their perspective. At least some saner heads prevailed on that one.
Back to controlled rest.
TU
Obviously, training for Boeing pilots lacking in some basic airmanship. Oh, but I bet the FMA was called correctly. Pilots trained on modern jet liners with only auto throttles. Despite some anomalies with regard to the Boeing AFDS, fly the frackin' machine one is in.
Can you believe that there was even the consideration that all 380 landings were to be auto lands? There had been some high value customer complaints about some less than stellar landings, from their perspective. At least some saner heads prevailed on that one.
Back to controlled rest.
TU
Join Date: Jun 2010
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If you carefully go though all the videos from the event those 3 statements that i copied from the report are wrong
because :
1: the aircraft was on the main landing gear, touching the runway with all tires on fire not on the engines.
2:within 1 minute after the full stop there was no evacuation initiated.
3: How the Captain will transmit My Day after the evacuation completed
4: the fire brigade was not there within 1 minute after they stopped
because :
1: the aircraft was on the main landing gear, touching the runway with all tires on fire not on the engines.
2:within 1 minute after the full stop there was no evacuation initiated.
3: How the Captain will transmit My Day after the evacuation completed
4: the fire brigade was not there within 1 minute after they stopped
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Do we see a common thread here? Turkish in Amsterdam-hands not on the throttles. Asiana in San Fran-hands not on the throttles. And now (very possibly), EK in DXB-hands not on the throttles.
Obviously, training for Boeing pilots lacking in some basic airmanship.
Obviously, training for Boeing pilots lacking in some basic airmanship.
There seems to be a very different paradigma originating from the respective companies. Maybe pilots trained on Airbus should simply stay on this equipment and vice versa.