B777 Emergency DXB
Join Date: Jun 2005
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falcon10
Still employed and on full pay.
olster
Whilst I do agree that calling and understanding the FMA is important, it's also worth noting several studies that have involved SOP call outs. Eye tracking devices have shown how pilots will often give a 'standard' response without actually checking the action has been completed or that the stated action is correct. Over 50% in many cases. It becomes a rote response and that's where the threat lies. Perhaps the answer is a compromise between learning and understanding the automation, combined with a healthy dose of suspicion and basic airmanship.
I wonder how many G/A's now being undertaken in the sim will have either pilot checking or the instructor teaching 'verify thrust increasing' before the call of positive rate. Probably a lot more than before the accident.
Harry
Still employed and on full pay.
olster
Whilst I do agree that calling and understanding the FMA is important, it's also worth noting several studies that have involved SOP call outs. Eye tracking devices have shown how pilots will often give a 'standard' response without actually checking the action has been completed or that the stated action is correct. Over 50% in many cases. It becomes a rote response and that's where the threat lies. Perhaps the answer is a compromise between learning and understanding the automation, combined with a healthy dose of suspicion and basic airmanship.
I wonder how many G/A's now being undertaken in the sim will have either pilot checking or the instructor teaching 'verify thrust increasing' before the call of positive rate. Probably a lot more than before the accident.
Harry
Very good point, Harry - I cannot disagree.
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Harry, absolutely right.
On the same note. Picture this.
Put a Cessna pilot in that 777, at the same spot they "did" the G/A.
Now, tell him to G/A . I bett he would have used his basic skills like pitch and power.
I do think the big picture has been lost.
On the same note. Picture this.
Put a Cessna pilot in that 777, at the same spot they "did" the G/A.
Now, tell him to G/A . I bett he would have used his basic skills like pitch and power.
I do think the big picture has been lost.
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I don't know about Boeing but in Airbus, FMA callouts are an integral part of flying.
Airbus golden rule no 5 - Know your FMA at all times.
From A320 FCOM -
Airbus golden rule no 5 - Know your FMA at all times.
From A320 FCOM -
The PF should call out any FMA change, unless specified differently (e.g. CAT II & III task sharing. Therefore, the PF should announce:
‐ All armed modes with the associated color (e.g. blue, magenta): “G/S blue”, “LOC blue”.
‐ All active modes without the associated color (e.g. green, white): “NAV”, “ALT”.
The PNF should check and respond, “CHECKED” to all FMA changes called out by the PF.
‐ All armed modes with the associated color (e.g. blue, magenta): “G/S blue”, “LOC blue”.
‐ All active modes without the associated color (e.g. green, white): “NAV”, “ALT”.
The PNF should check and respond, “CHECKED” to all FMA changes called out by the PF.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sandy Surroundings!
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Any truth in the rumour that both individuals involved "left" EK on the 25th?
If this is true, I would be very surprised, as I had the feeling that management attitudes have softened towards incidents.
If this is true, I would be very surprised, as I had the feeling that management attitudes have softened towards incidents.
Twin jock. Not true.
piratepete also not true.
He should have been busy doing a Indian turn around. Sorry he disturbed you. Fatigue should prevent this happening again.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Just heard that the UAE National Captain involved has "retired" at the age of thirty something. With full benefits. He can now open a Shawarma stall or a tinting business for Land Cruisers. A huge loss to EK no doubt.
Our Aussie friend will be heading back to QF. A lot wiser, I am sure.
Why do I have such a bad feeling about the GCAA investigation and its findings??
I'm so glad everyone walked away with the exception of the firefighter. My thoughts are with his family.
Our Aussie friend will be heading back to QF. A lot wiser, I am sure.
Why do I have such a bad feeling about the GCAA investigation and its findings??
I'm so glad everyone walked away with the exception of the firefighter. My thoughts are with his family.