Lowered requirements Emirates
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dusty West
Age: 53
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pulk...
A very simple minded approach...but OK...lets go with it!
Apply to EK...please come here and enjoy the fruits of hard labour and 7 days off per month with most of your duties during the dark hours...actually you'd be flying to your home country so it'll feel like home! Have no fear of cancer, strokes or other diseases of the fatigued body....I'm sure there are thousands like you who would love to come here!
Yes...Ek is the place for you....please come...we need people like you to fill the ranks on the 330 fleet so that those who know what its really like can put forward a glimmer of hope to move to the 777 or 380.
To finish...people are leaving...to the tune of an attrition rate of 11% (these are the true figures, as opposed to the figures HR are told to put forward)...yes its that bad and will continue to be as the global market place for pilots suddenly changed and many can't leave here fast enough.
A very simple minded approach...but OK...lets go with it!
Apply to EK...please come here and enjoy the fruits of hard labour and 7 days off per month with most of your duties during the dark hours...actually you'd be flying to your home country so it'll feel like home! Have no fear of cancer, strokes or other diseases of the fatigued body....I'm sure there are thousands like you who would love to come here!
Yes...Ek is the place for you....please come...we need people like you to fill the ranks on the 330 fleet so that those who know what its really like can put forward a glimmer of hope to move to the 777 or 380.
To finish...people are leaving...to the tune of an attrition rate of 11% (these are the true figures, as opposed to the figures HR are told to put forward)...yes its that bad and will continue to be as the global market place for pilots suddenly changed and many can't leave here fast enough.
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Attic
Age: 59
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Funny now the word is FOs are resigning at a 3-1 clip more than the Emirates captains. This is real trouble for the airline down the road. Who is going to upgrade in 12-18 months? Hire the dreaded DECs and watch how many more FOs leave. What to do?
Many sectors now have 2 capts and 1 fo. PER, NRT and KIX.
Since there is a worldwide pilot shortage Emirates will very qucikly run out of TP pilots. Even the TP pilots will get sick of the treatment at Emirates after 2 years. Then what, can Emirates lower their standard or requriements any more?
Only slightly more than a month to go from this dump. It is time to go, how say you?
Many sectors now have 2 capts and 1 fo. PER, NRT and KIX.
Since there is a worldwide pilot shortage Emirates will very qucikly run out of TP pilots. Even the TP pilots will get sick of the treatment at Emirates after 2 years. Then what, can Emirates lower their standard or requriements any more?
Only slightly more than a month to go from this dump. It is time to go, how say you?
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Somehwere nowhere
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Things have changed. No doubt about that. But none of us can do anything about that. I have been reading for years on the forum and I know that it won't. They got lots of cash, they don't need to bend. They know they can get people to come for interviews and neither unions are allowed in ME3. So all in all, let's stop the rambling and focus our efforts on something productive. No point rambling here. People who will join will join and the 9th floor or the floors below them don't CARE.
Pilots have been rambling that there is crew shortage and they fly too much, so EK also knows they aren't getting talents. So leave it to them if they have to get turboprops or ATP holders or whatever. How does it matter to you all. If no one is joining them and they had to lower their requirements to ease all of your flying or new airplanes or whatever reason, so be it. Let's not get down that route that TP pilots or guys with low time cannot fly weather or don't have experience. People will do the exact opposite no matter what you say and all of you should know this by now.
Pilots have been rambling that there is crew shortage and they fly too much, so EK also knows they aren't getting talents. So leave it to them if they have to get turboprops or ATP holders or whatever. How does it matter to you all. If no one is joining them and they had to lower their requirements to ease all of your flying or new airplanes or whatever reason, so be it. Let's not get down that route that TP pilots or guys with low time cannot fly weather or don't have experience. People will do the exact opposite no matter what you say and all of you should know this by now.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In the seat
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It certainly sends a message to the crew, you ain't going to get a decent increase in years to come, I would state that this is the end of what is left of the rainbow!!! They use to have a pretty high entry level standard, this has slowly started a trip downhill - nothing against a TP pilot but, at entry level, they're actually not on par with an ex wide body pilot.
Good luck to all the TP pilots, it's certainly an opportunity but do your homework first.
Has the race to the bottom been won yet?
Good luck to all the TP pilots, it's certainly an opportunity but do your homework first.
Has the race to the bottom been won yet?
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Global
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love the hate Emirates gets. In all honesty there is no perfect airline. You cant trust half the posts here about Emirates because either they're just jealous for some reason or they're expats who want to go home for various reasons.
From my memory, Emirates emerged as the first middle eastern global superpower and still is today, they even got the US airlines scratching their heads!. Their safety record speaks for itself. If you are an Emirates pilot and dont like it, leave lol. The airline is one of the most profitable today, you cant fault their business model, whether you work 40 hrs a month or 96.
From my memory, Emirates emerged as the first middle eastern global superpower and still is today, they even got the US airlines scratching their heads!. Their safety record speaks for itself. If you are an Emirates pilot and dont like it, leave lol. The airline is one of the most profitable today, you cant fault their business model, whether you work 40 hrs a month or 96.
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Global
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll also mention that EK is also a fully widebody fleet oriented airline, every other airline Etihad, Qatar, Saudia etc, have an element of narrow body fleets as well. So pilots entering the airline have an option, i.e. they can choose whether they want to go from an a320 to an a380. Emirates does'nt have this option and its up to you when you fill out the application whether you want that lifestyle. Whether they ask for 1500 hrs or 4000 is meaningless. Its your choice.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Striker, actually EK's profitability was better a few years ago than this so called "record" year.
Interestingly the legacy carriers in the US posted larger profits whilst having much higher overheads.
Nothing and I do mean nothing, would make me happier to be proud of the airline I work for, as I was when I joined 9 years ago.
We were motivated and rewarded accordingly. Today we are neither.
As to your belief that all expats want to go home, well no actually, many of us left for good reasons. Going back is a last resort when health and the bigger picture of as long a life as possible become issues.
Leave? You bet! We are and in ever increasing numbers. Many are leaving aviation completely even though short of anything like viable pension.
Highly respected and talented Trainers are leaving too. In real terms EK has a real problem.
I take absolutely no pleasure in stating the above but your BS had to be answered.
Interestingly the legacy carriers in the US posted larger profits whilst having much higher overheads.
Nothing and I do mean nothing, would make me happier to be proud of the airline I work for, as I was when I joined 9 years ago.
We were motivated and rewarded accordingly. Today we are neither.
As to your belief that all expats want to go home, well no actually, many of us left for good reasons. Going back is a last resort when health and the bigger picture of as long a life as possible become issues.
Leave? You bet! We are and in ever increasing numbers. Many are leaving aviation completely even though short of anything like viable pension.
Highly respected and talented Trainers are leaving too. In real terms EK has a real problem.
I take absolutely no pleasure in stating the above but your BS had to be answered.
Does this mean a SE Instructor with an ATPL can apply too? Not that there's anything wrong with that....EK had the requirements to obviously select the best candidates. Can't anyone see how desperate they are if they are opening the doors to everyone with an ATPL? Having an ATPL to me, is just a tick in the box. You can't beat experience. Good luck to anyone who applies and I hope to not read your posts on here in a few years time complaining....
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PH 298/7.4DME
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
120 feet
Props are not the issue
There appears to be some confusion about what the guys are concerned about here. Flying the airplane is a very very small part of the job. At EK it's about 1% of the time. So it is not that they hate TP guys nor think them inferior pilots. The same concern would be levied against a Red Bull air racer. The simple fact is most props are limited to a very tiny region of the globe, and hence so is your TP experience. Yes, there are exceptions. I am saying most. Now, you are a captain on your 7th day in a row, flying a trip that has been reduced from three pilots to two pilots. (Due to lack of crew.) You have a TP guy with 2000 hours sitting next to you over deepest darkest Africa, in an airplane that may be 100 times heavier, fly 3 times faster and take 10 times the runway to stop then what he just stepped out of, and facing weather he has never seen. As a TP he will have very little to offer except SOP regurgitation, which will get you through 95% of it. But when it counts, really counts, and things are going pear shaped, there are safety issues that need to be addressed. The TP pilot may very well may end up adding stress to the problem. The concerns have very little to do with flying the airplane it has to do with experience. This is not an offense, many of us started there, myself included. However, I can tell you there is a legitimate concern. Now, if EK wants to do 50 sectors with the TP guys and let them fill their boots, then no worries. Or hey, better the T&C and keep the guys you have. All this IMHO.....
Years ago a CRJ 70 was not good enough but a CRJ 90 was. Same plane. The things EK does rarely make sense.
There appears to be some confusion about what the guys are concerned about here. Flying the airplane is a very very small part of the job. At EK it's about 1% of the time. So it is not that they hate TP guys nor think them inferior pilots. The same concern would be levied against a Red Bull air racer. The simple fact is most props are limited to a very tiny region of the globe, and hence so is your TP experience. Yes, there are exceptions. I am saying most. Now, you are a captain on your 7th day in a row, flying a trip that has been reduced from three pilots to two pilots. (Due to lack of crew.) You have a TP guy with 2000 hours sitting next to you over deepest darkest Africa, in an airplane that may be 100 times heavier, fly 3 times faster and take 10 times the runway to stop then what he just stepped out of, and facing weather he has never seen. As a TP he will have very little to offer except SOP regurgitation, which will get you through 95% of it. But when it counts, really counts, and things are going pear shaped, there are safety issues that need to be addressed. The TP pilot may very well may end up adding stress to the problem. The concerns have very little to do with flying the airplane it has to do with experience. This is not an offense, many of us started there, myself included. However, I can tell you there is a legitimate concern. Now, if EK wants to do 50 sectors with the TP guys and let them fill their boots, then no worries. Or hey, better the T&C and keep the guys you have. All this IMHO.....
Years ago a CRJ 70 was not good enough but a CRJ 90 was. Same plane. The things EK does rarely make sense.
You could argue that both ways. For me, the phase with the most legitimate concerns tend to be for the first and last few minutes of the flight. If you consider that most accidents and incidents occur during takeoff and/or landing, then the experience of the turboprop guy is far greater than a long haul pilot of the same total time. Some of those turboprop guys will do 6 landings a day, whereas long haul wouldn't even do that in a month in some cases.
I think most turboprop-come-jet pilots will agree that the jet flying is considerably less demanding than flying turboprops, as far as the flying itself goes. The concepts involved with jets come quickly to most with exposure.
In my own experience, the Captains who came from turboprops or other non-airliner types tend to think in a lot more broader terms than those who've been on jets for a long time or solely.
Just my 2 cents...
520.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: earth
Posts: 1,098
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a huge misinterpretation of our many critics about lowering the requirements. The most suitable applicant would be a 777/380 FO with 2500h on type. The least suitable, however possible, is an ab initio candidate. The difference between the two is the amount, time and quality of training reqired to bring him up to a level that skippers can go to the isolation cell in the most remote part of the aircraft for rest without their heart racing. And this is where EK is failing miserbly. The erosion of training quality by delegating almost everything to distant learning, the ever less experienced trainers who can basically only rely on books and sops, but very little real experience, is paired with the need of hiring less experienced candidates due to the suitable ones shunning the gulag.
Nothing against TP pilots, their basic capacity is the same, but many of us have experienced the integration of lesser experiend pilots with an inadequate syllabus and training department, always considering their basic skills. They need more and different modules and most importantly more line training. That is expensive and man-intensive and will therefore not happen. The burden and even some incurring risk is shoved down the exhausted and frustrated line pilots just for the sake of profit and greed, victim is safety.
I just wonder how the insurance companies look at this evolution. The regulator is corrupt and the customers lured in a constant rose tinted bubble.
Brace for a serious incident and it will be BAH all over again and all the responsible crooks will put on an innocent face and pretend that no one could have seen this coming. Like LH ....
Nothing against TP pilots, their basic capacity is the same, but many of us have experienced the integration of lesser experiend pilots with an inadequate syllabus and training department, always considering their basic skills. They need more and different modules and most importantly more line training. That is expensive and man-intensive and will therefore not happen. The burden and even some incurring risk is shoved down the exhausted and frustrated line pilots just for the sake of profit and greed, victim is safety.
I just wonder how the insurance companies look at this evolution. The regulator is corrupt and the customers lured in a constant rose tinted bubble.
Brace for a serious incident and it will be BAH all over again and all the responsible crooks will put on an innocent face and pretend that no one could have seen this coming. Like LH ....
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
I can't believe some of this pompous horse manure I'm reading here. The US majors hire just about all their guys from turboprop / RJ / ex mil / bizjet backgrounds. Same with a few other dodgy amateur operators like Cathay, Qantas, Virgin 
In fact the exact opposite argument is flying around in Cathay at the moment, I had some beers with one of their checkies a few weeks back, and he was weeping and wailing about how the standards have massively fallen in recent years, since they went away from the policy of recruiting most of their guys from those kind of experienced backgrounds, and more towards hiring local cadets.
Also, it's never been easier these days for a kid to go buy a job and a couple thousand hours with a crappy third world 737/A320 operator, and not learn a bloody thing in that time except how to be a lazy useless SOP cowboy. And I would argue it's much much easier to get away with being lazy and useless in a modern jet as opposed to a turboprop, because 99% of the time the systems on the jet will save you from your own stupidity.
If a guy is still alive and incident free after a few years of turboprop command, then you can at least have some confidence that he knows how to do things like land in a max crosswind, execute a go round at minimums, correctly identify icing conditions and so on. There are plenty of narrowbody jet F/O's out there who still struggle with that stuff believe me.
In fact the exact opposite argument is flying around in Cathay at the moment, I had some beers with one of their checkies a few weeks back, and he was weeping and wailing about how the standards have massively fallen in recent years, since they went away from the policy of recruiting most of their guys from those kind of experienced backgrounds, and more towards hiring local cadets.
Also, it's never been easier these days for a kid to go buy a job and a couple thousand hours with a crappy third world 737/A320 operator, and not learn a bloody thing in that time except how to be a lazy useless SOP cowboy. And I would argue it's much much easier to get away with being lazy and useless in a modern jet as opposed to a turboprop, because 99% of the time the systems on the jet will save you from your own stupidity.
If a guy is still alive and incident free after a few years of turboprop command, then you can at least have some confidence that he knows how to do things like land in a max crosswind, execute a go round at minimums, correctly identify icing conditions and so on. There are plenty of narrowbody jet F/O's out there who still struggle with that stuff believe me.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Camel jockey
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't believe some of this pompous horse manure I'm reading here. The US majors hire just about all their guys from turboprop / RJ / ex mil / bizjet backgrounds. Same with a few other dodgy amateur operators like Cathay, Qantas, Virgin
Also, it's never been easier these days for a kid to go buy a job and a couple thousand hours with a crappy third world 737/A320 operator, and not learn a bloody thing in that time except how to be a lazy useless SOP cowboy. And I would argue it's much much easier to get away with being lazy and useless in a modern jet as opposed to a turboprop, because 99% of the time the systems on the jet will save you from your own stupidity.
jet guys 
As for your statement that 99% of the time the system will save us, perhaps a look at the last few hull losses you discover the system did nothing but confuse the crews!
If a guy is still alive and incident free after a few years of turboprop command, then you can at least have some confidence that he knows how to do things like land in a max crosswind, execute a go round at minimums, correctly identify icing conditions and so on. There are plenty of narrowbody jet F/O's out there who still struggle with that stuff believe me.
This argument has bounced around the airline industry for years, but it has to be said emirates operation is like no other and at the moment it and the crews are being pushed to there limits, this sh&t has got serious!
Mighty jet's RHS is absolutely inappropriate place for ex-TP captain!
If I were TP skipper these days, I would settle for nothing less than jet NTRDEC.
Because there are worse places than EK.
If I were TP skipper these days, I would settle for nothing less than jet NTRDEC.
But why would anybody with any common sense really want to come to such an unhappy company as Ek is at the moment!
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Global
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
alwayzinit - i respect your opinion completely im just saying that if one doesn't like it shouldn't you move on like you stated? 9 years yes that's a lot of time for things to change for better or worse. If its worse now leave and let the airline suffer, give your services to a company you'd appreciate, that's all.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 54
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is an awfully big move don't you agree Striker?
If you don't like it leave argument? You will be perfect in the Middle East. Come and give it a try.
You'll like the pay here especially to what you make in Canada.
What posts here on prune is not true in your expert opinion? You seem to know everything about the industry and Emirates so please enlighten us.
Good news for you is that EK is hiring TP pilots so you can now get hired.
Good luck!
If you don't like it leave argument? You will be perfect in the Middle East. Come and give it a try.
You'll like the pay here especially to what you make in Canada.
What posts here on prune is not true in your expert opinion? You seem to know everything about the industry and Emirates so please enlighten us.
Good news for you is that EK is hiring TP pilots so you can now get hired.
Good luck!
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Global
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Im not an expert, i will be honest that i am bias because i was born there, only came to Canada because of my parents and education. Im just saying i see so many people upset with ME airlines, if you are working there you obviously have experience, at least try to apply elsewhere maybe to find better now?
If you made the decision to go their in the first place, whats to say you cant move on? If its this bad why endure it. I'm not saying its easy, but you made the life changing decision to go there in the first place, you can make another to move on if the airline isn't fulfilling what it used to.
We all work so hard to get to to where we are, it wouldn't be fair if it wasn't worthwhile. If Emirates reduces your worthiness im not saying quit, im saying look for other opportunities you obviously have experience! Sorry if i offended you in any way, honestly i do respect any pilot and their opinion, just don't want you to be miserable!
If you made the decision to go their in the first place, whats to say you cant move on? If its this bad why endure it. I'm not saying its easy, but you made the life changing decision to go there in the first place, you can make another to move on if the airline isn't fulfilling what it used to.
We all work so hard to get to to where we are, it wouldn't be fair if it wasn't worthwhile. If Emirates reduces your worthiness im not saying quit, im saying look for other opportunities you obviously have experience! Sorry if i offended you in any way, honestly i do respect any pilot and their opinion, just don't want you to be miserable!
Last edited by striker26; 29th Jul 2015 at 19:00.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 149 Mil. Km from the sun
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stryke, you have a long way to go before you understand the realities of this industry... keep cleaning those rose colored glasses ... good luck... you'll need it.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Somehwere nowhere
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most of everything that everyone is saying is true. its not easy to move on to a different country and start over again. Also it isn't easy for everything happening at EK to change when the ball is not even in the pilot's court.
Real life example outside flying : I also shoot Electronic Dance Music Festivals around the world apart from flying, and the pay is so low that most of the top 5 photographers including me walked away from them. Guess what, the festival organisers are still getting great shots for free from newbies who want to create a portfolio and be popular. It's the same in almost every industry. It's best not to leave EK because ultimately the loss was mine at the EDM shows. In fact their never used to pay on time, we staged and walked and never came back and now they pay all the photographers (newbies) after every show. We made the difference but who were the gainers : Those newbies!!!
Stick around and fight it out. Don't leave. But also please don't vent. No one who wants to have a piece of that glamour (Joining EK) will listen to any of you. They will go through the grind and then understand. I find the whole activity just increases your frustration and blood pressure.
Real life example outside flying : I also shoot Electronic Dance Music Festivals around the world apart from flying, and the pay is so low that most of the top 5 photographers including me walked away from them. Guess what, the festival organisers are still getting great shots for free from newbies who want to create a portfolio and be popular. It's the same in almost every industry. It's best not to leave EK because ultimately the loss was mine at the EDM shows. In fact their never used to pay on time, we staged and walked and never came back and now they pay all the photographers (newbies) after every show. We made the difference but who were the gainers : Those newbies!!!
Stick around and fight it out. Don't leave. But also please don't vent. No one who wants to have a piece of that glamour (Joining EK) will listen to any of you. They will go through the grind and then understand. I find the whole activity just increases your frustration and blood pressure.