Rosters Today? + days off
Join Date: Jun 2006
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To answer the incredulous that don't work at Emirates;
We as pilots only get paid for the amount we fly in the seat and nothing more.
We do not get paid for holding , delays or strong headwinds.
We do not get paid for sims.
We don't get paid for ground duties.
We don't get paid for computer based modules that probably add up to 10 + hours a year in unpaid activity.
Yet there are still pilots lining up to join this rat hole.
Wait until the Jepp system comes on line. Even the Kool-Aid drinkers will come around and see the light for what EK is really about. No amount of indoctrination or drugs can hide the fact no matter how hard they try to convince themselves that they made the right decision to join Emirates.
We as pilots only get paid for the amount we fly in the seat and nothing more.
We do not get paid for holding , delays or strong headwinds.
We do not get paid for sims.
We don't get paid for ground duties.
We don't get paid for computer based modules that probably add up to 10 + hours a year in unpaid activity.
Yet there are still pilots lining up to join this rat hole.
Wait until the Jepp system comes on line. Even the Kool-Aid drinkers will come around and see the light for what EK is really about. No amount of indoctrination or drugs can hide the fact no matter how hard they try to convince themselves that they made the right decision to join Emirates.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Fifth straight month of "productivity". So pleased we're not short of pilots
... he just said he isn't losing sleep over it.
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"To answer the incredulous that don't work at Emirates;
We as pilots only get paid for the amount we fly in the seat and nothing more. "
Don't you get paid whilst you're in the bunk?
"We do not get paid for holding , delays or strong headwinds.
We do not get paid for sims.
We don't get paid for ground duties.
We don't get paid for computer based modules that probably add up to 10 + hours a year in unpaid activity. "
Who does these days?
I'm not incredulous, far from it, I believe what you're saying but it's pretty 5hite out there at most airlines!
I pay for my uniform, parking, water, food, sim, ID. I'm on a zero hour contract, based in the UK, I have a forced month off, November this year which means no Christmas presents for my kids and beans on toast for Christmas dinner.
100 hrs this month, next week 33 block hrs from 5 days, 16 sectors, sim on day 6 and have to drive, at my own expense, a 250 mile round trip for the pleasure of doing the sim - the cost of which is deducted from every hour I fly!
To top it all off as I'm based in UK with all my expenses in sterling. I'm paid in Euro so I'm taking a 20% hit on earnings due to the exchange rate at the moment.
Add in the uncertainty of where you and the family will be after a command and all of a sudden EK and at least knowing where you're going to be based seems quite appealing.
I accept that things agave gone downhill for you guys but it's still, in my opinion, better than many places out there at the moment.
We as pilots only get paid for the amount we fly in the seat and nothing more. "
Don't you get paid whilst you're in the bunk?
"We do not get paid for holding , delays or strong headwinds.
We do not get paid for sims.
We don't get paid for ground duties.
We don't get paid for computer based modules that probably add up to 10 + hours a year in unpaid activity. "
Who does these days?
I'm not incredulous, far from it, I believe what you're saying but it's pretty 5hite out there at most airlines!
I pay for my uniform, parking, water, food, sim, ID. I'm on a zero hour contract, based in the UK, I have a forced month off, November this year which means no Christmas presents for my kids and beans on toast for Christmas dinner.
100 hrs this month, next week 33 block hrs from 5 days, 16 sectors, sim on day 6 and have to drive, at my own expense, a 250 mile round trip for the pleasure of doing the sim - the cost of which is deducted from every hour I fly!
To top it all off as I'm based in UK with all my expenses in sterling. I'm paid in Euro so I'm taking a 20% hit on earnings due to the exchange rate at the moment.
Add in the uncertainty of where you and the family will be after a command and all of a sudden EK and at least knowing where you're going to be based seems quite appealing.
I accept that things agave gone downhill for you guys but it's still, in my opinion, better than many places out there at the moment.
Last edited by Mr Boombastick; 24th Jul 2015 at 20:38.
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And there ladies and gentlemen, perfectly surmises what is called "the race to the bottom".
Well done Boombastic for making the case.
Reminds me of a Monty python skit of the "Four Yorkshireman" and "living in a shoebox in the middle of the road". I expect you'd be aware of this being based in the U.K.
As long as we have Boombastic types in the industry, we will always be aware of the definition of regression.
Well done Boombastic for making the case.
Reminds me of a Monty python skit of the "Four Yorkshireman" and "living in a shoebox in the middle of the road". I expect you'd be aware of this being based in the U.K.
As long as we have Boombastic types in the industry, we will always be aware of the definition of regression.
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Regression leads to depression. Being an honest Yorkshire man moaning comes naturally.
I would like to make the point that this race to the bottom is not just exclusive to this industry.
I spent over 10 years working in the public sector in the UK prior to taking up the self improver route and things have taken a very, very bad turn for the worse there.
Dr's, nurses, firemen, civil servants, police officers... Everyone seems to be taking a huge hit. Pensions, pay, working conditions, all being eroded. The only ones who seem to be doing well now are bankers and builders.
Sorry for the thread creep.
I would like to make the point that this race to the bottom is not just exclusive to this industry.
I spent over 10 years working in the public sector in the UK prior to taking up the self improver route and things have taken a very, very bad turn for the worse there.
Dr's, nurses, firemen, civil servants, police officers... Everyone seems to be taking a huge hit. Pensions, pay, working conditions, all being eroded. The only ones who seem to be doing well now are bankers and builders.
Sorry for the thread creep.
short flights long nights
The answer is break dancer......no. Well you could try, just see how far you get.
And Mr Boombastick, I assume you knew that all the things you listed were part of your job contract when you signed up for it.
The guys at EK however, signed a contract, and that contract just keeps getting altered constantly for the worse, and they have no right of reply. In fact if EK said tomorrow 'in leui if cash, we are now paying you in food stamps", there is nothing that could be done.
And that, Mr Boombastick, is where the difference is.
And Mr Boombastick, I assume you knew that all the things you listed were part of your job contract when you signed up for it.
The guys at EK however, signed a contract, and that contract just keeps getting altered constantly for the worse, and they have no right of reply. In fact if EK said tomorrow 'in leui if cash, we are now paying you in food stamps", there is nothing that could be done.
And that, Mr Boombastick, is where the difference is.
Last edited by SOPS; 25th Jul 2015 at 03:08.
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"Dr's, nurses, firemen, civil servants, police officers... Everyone seems to be taking a huge hit. Pensions, pay, working conditions, all being eroded. The only ones who seem to be doing well now are bankers and builders."
Don't forget politicians. They are doing very well with their salaries, pensions and perks.
The race to the buttom is in fact happening everywhere and is the wealthy's (politicians and other influencial people) attempt to marginalize the middle class.
Don't forget politicians. They are doing very well with their salaries, pensions and perks.
The race to the buttom is in fact happening everywhere and is the wealthy's (politicians and other influencial people) attempt to marginalize the middle class.
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Way too much
96 Hours and 16 unpaid hours for 2 days of ground school.
30 days of leave with more than 20 of them forced.
Way too much work, way too much greed from the company.
I have no problem working hard. However I expect my leave and I expect to have a say when the leave is used.
30 days of leave with more than 20 of them forced.
Way too much work, way too much greed from the company.
I have no problem working hard. However I expect my leave and I expect to have a say when the leave is used.
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SOPS et al
The only 'iffy' part of the contract not being honoured is the leave. 42 days leave per calendar year is what's stated in our contract. We are also 'bound' by rules and regulations in the HR employee handbook which are subject to change. However, whilst the hours, working conditions and other similar day to day issues have been altered, which are quite normal with most Companies, the fundamental contract has not. Just ask your friends and colleagues in BA if there have been changes over the last 10-15 years. EK is not unique, believe me. So, despite our protestations, I still get my Company Provident contributions of 15%, the housing allowance, education allowance, ALT, ELT, and all the other items listed on the contract renewal that's updated each year with my increase in pay, even if it is only a step increase....again. Correct me if I'm wrong but the above allowances have never been reduced, only increased, correct?
So, while many bemoan the ever eroding conditions, which for the record, I too find disgusting given such high profits, the basic contract itself remains the same as when we all joined. It never guaranteed rosters for commuting. It never guaranteed 75 hour per month. It never guaranteed credit for leave or sim or distance learning. These are lifestyle changes, not contractual changes. If the recruiters sold you that, blame them, not the Company. I was promised a 'fast track' command after 18 months during my interview. That was changed after Gulf Air 072 and changes to the upgrade policy in EK. It took 3 years instead.
In summary, I'm not agreeing at all with the current policy changes and hours we work. They're brutal, especially given the timings of many of our departures, the roster patterns and the 24hour layovers. Add to this the reduced days off, lack of stringing some together and the accepted norm of 30 days leave, we're well on our way to a train smash. Not a mechanical one I hope but a man power and motivation one. Basing their target for all pilots to achieve 30 days leave is shameful and disregards not only the contract but the welfare of those working a damn sight harder in productivity terms than those plodding through Costa at 0715 every morning.
Next time you're called in for a chat, go early and have a wonder around FLT OPS & Cabin Services. See how much work is actually done in between the coffees and checking their phones. Based on work ethics and what's expected, you might as well be working for an entirely different organisation!
Harry
The only 'iffy' part of the contract not being honoured is the leave. 42 days leave per calendar year is what's stated in our contract. We are also 'bound' by rules and regulations in the HR employee handbook which are subject to change. However, whilst the hours, working conditions and other similar day to day issues have been altered, which are quite normal with most Companies, the fundamental contract has not. Just ask your friends and colleagues in BA if there have been changes over the last 10-15 years. EK is not unique, believe me. So, despite our protestations, I still get my Company Provident contributions of 15%, the housing allowance, education allowance, ALT, ELT, and all the other items listed on the contract renewal that's updated each year with my increase in pay, even if it is only a step increase....again. Correct me if I'm wrong but the above allowances have never been reduced, only increased, correct?
So, while many bemoan the ever eroding conditions, which for the record, I too find disgusting given such high profits, the basic contract itself remains the same as when we all joined. It never guaranteed rosters for commuting. It never guaranteed 75 hour per month. It never guaranteed credit for leave or sim or distance learning. These are lifestyle changes, not contractual changes. If the recruiters sold you that, blame them, not the Company. I was promised a 'fast track' command after 18 months during my interview. That was changed after Gulf Air 072 and changes to the upgrade policy in EK. It took 3 years instead.
In summary, I'm not agreeing at all with the current policy changes and hours we work. They're brutal, especially given the timings of many of our departures, the roster patterns and the 24hour layovers. Add to this the reduced days off, lack of stringing some together and the accepted norm of 30 days leave, we're well on our way to a train smash. Not a mechanical one I hope but a man power and motivation one. Basing their target for all pilots to achieve 30 days leave is shameful and disregards not only the contract but the welfare of those working a damn sight harder in productivity terms than those plodding through Costa at 0715 every morning.
Next time you're called in for a chat, go early and have a wonder around FLT OPS & Cabin Services. See how much work is actually done in between the coffees and checking their phones. Based on work ethics and what's expected, you might as well be working for an entirely different organisation!
Harry
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It's a great idea, one collective and cohesive voice but it comes with just one problem. What you refer to as a 'professional organisation' , Emirates would refer to as a union and in the UAE they're illegal.
Apart from that little stumbling block, perfect plan Bernoulli
Harry
Apart from that little stumbling block, perfect plan Bernoulli
Harry
short flights long nights
I agree Harry about the amount of work done in the office. Due to a medical issue, I had the joy of working in the office for a month. I was shocked at how little work was actually done!
It made me realise that the crew ( both flight deck and cabin) and the engineers are the only ones that actually work in the place. In fact if we produced the equivalent amount of 'work' that is produced in the office, we would do one flight a week!
On another matter, I can't see how the current rosters are sustainable. 96 hours, long haul, back of the clock. Something is going to snap. It's simply not safe, and I fear what it is doing to people's long term health.
It made me realise that the crew ( both flight deck and cabin) and the engineers are the only ones that actually work in the place. In fact if we produced the equivalent amount of 'work' that is produced in the office, we would do one flight a week!
On another matter, I can't see how the current rosters are sustainable. 96 hours, long haul, back of the clock. Something is going to snap. It's simply not safe, and I fear what it is doing to people's long term health.
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Next time you're called in for a chat, go early and have a wonder around FLT OPS & Cabin Services. See how much work is actually done in between the coffees and checking their phones. Based on work ethics and wh
Same sh1t as EK HQ, populated by sandal wearing oxygen thieves doing as much as possible to look busy...but doing very little or nothing.
lots of rain here yesterday, much nicer today, the stream is up a bit..but the apples look like they're just about ready to pick
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Unsustainable - safety case?
Perhaps time for the Wall Street Journal to revisit the situation...... At least the last time they went into print we had the small but joyous admission that the ridiculous 'time line for crew briefing' sheet could not continue. Oh and certain parts of the Curry Continent became three crew / layover destinations.
Is someone round here slowly waking up to the concept of corporate liability and the power of modern media? Or maybe just attempting to cover their tracks to shelter from what will be the eventual fallout, when the proverbial hits the fan?
Interesting days ahead me thinks .....
Is someone round here slowly waking up to the concept of corporate liability and the power of modern media? Or maybe just attempting to cover their tracks to shelter from what will be the eventual fallout, when the proverbial hits the fan?
Interesting days ahead me thinks .....
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Silence from WSJ is perhaps due to being emasculated by the powers that be from previously written article, or from Editor in Chief feeling the heat from powers above... hit a nerve I'm sure.
Follow on articles once in the works, seem to be sitting on the sidelines.
Follow on articles once in the works, seem to be sitting on the sidelines.