EK - Variation 1!
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The OMA says.....prior to leaving the point of departure..... is when the captn must decide to extend the duty or not. So in this case you can't just take off hoping to make it and then extend if we can't. We all do it, but technically, have I got it wrong.
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Any chance when replying you guys could state you place of birth e.g. UK
Not so that EK can work out who you are, just for the rest of us to see if it's moaning Brits all the time or a cross section of the world
BYMONEK bet you never experienced this on the Twotter - did you ever fly with Dan Dan the Brymon man (Payne). Bet you turned up early for report then as well.....
NB If you didn't fly for Brymon then yes i'm even more of a complete prat
Not so that EK can work out who you are, just for the rest of us to see if it's moaning Brits all the time or a cross section of the world
BYMONEK bet you never experienced this on the Twotter - did you ever fly with Dan Dan the Brymon man (Payne). Bet you turned up early for report then as well.....
NB If you didn't fly for Brymon then yes i'm even more of a complete prat
A fella calls himself bymonek and you think you are a star for guessing where he worked before? Really?
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TOGA
Sat in the back of a car reading my paper, that's what I'm doing before report. Unlike 99% of the rest of the World's pilots who are actually driving themselves into work. Parking, getting the bus to crew report....Are you for real?
Twiggy
Yes, you are even more of a complete prat!
Sat in the back of a car reading my paper, that's what I'm doing before report. Unlike 99% of the rest of the World's pilots who are actually driving themselves into work. Parking, getting the bus to crew report....Are you for real?
Twiggy
Yes, you are even more of a complete prat!
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Great post TOGA! Some pilots just don't get it. Most of the world's international pilots have a 90 min check in time and guess what, that is when they come on duty even if they have to drive themselves to work. Plus they get 30 mins after the flight.
Recently before a flight I dropped off my laundry, went downstairs to pick up some mail and happened to run into a friend who was leaving the company. Before I knew anything my phone was ringing and the FDM was asking where I was. I told him I was downstairs. Now if it was the Turkish German FDM on duty the phone call probably wouldn't have been placed but the newest FDM (guess where he comes from) said in a raising voice the FAs need to briefed and the FO is wondering where I am. I said relax and then paused, I don't come on duty for another 20 mins. That rocked his world. He didn't know what to say. I said tell the crew I will see them in 10 mins. We still left 3 mins early.
Under the current company induced fatiguing conditions any pilot would be a fool to go into HIS discretion period. What do have to gain?
15 weeks profit share coming May 7.
Recently before a flight I dropped off my laundry, went downstairs to pick up some mail and happened to run into a friend who was leaving the company. Before I knew anything my phone was ringing and the FDM was asking where I was. I told him I was downstairs. Now if it was the Turkish German FDM on duty the phone call probably wouldn't have been placed but the newest FDM (guess where he comes from) said in a raising voice the FAs need to briefed and the FO is wondering where I am. I said relax and then paused, I don't come on duty for another 20 mins. That rocked his world. He didn't know what to say. I said tell the crew I will see them in 10 mins. We still left 3 mins early.
Under the current company induced fatiguing conditions any pilot would be a fool to go into HIS discretion period. What do have to gain?
15 weeks profit share coming May 7.
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Taking the piss in regards to which statement?
The 90 min check in allowance?
The 30 min check out allowance?
Running my errands before the flight?
Thinking we should get 15 weeks profit share?
They are all true!
The 90 min check in allowance?
The 30 min check out allowance?
Running my errands before the flight?
Thinking we should get 15 weeks profit share?
They are all true!
Join Date: Jul 2009
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330 did a pattern years ago hkg-bkk-dxb crew of two. It wasn't until you got the bkk-dxb flight plan in bkk that you realised the pattern required discretion to complete from the start. I told the bkk ground staff if we didn't push in 45 minutes from chocks on they would need to find about 300 hotel beds. We pushed in 45 no discretion required. There are not the letters 'EK' in the word discretion.
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AC
In another rare case of bonding, I agree with you 100%..........except the post duty. We are given 30 minutes. You're off duty 30 minutes after chocks, just not paid for it that's all.
Harry
In another rare case of bonding, I agree with you 100%..........except the post duty. We are given 30 minutes. You're off duty 30 minutes after chocks, just not paid for it that's all.
Harry
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Well we SHOULD get 30 weeks for what we put up with but if we get it, not only will I eat my hat but I will eat yours, the tag from my bag AND the snack trays, that includes eating that green, curly fruit that comes with it, whatever it may be!
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Harry,
No we are not. Not for legality purposes. Look it up.
FDP
A period which commences when a crew member is required to report for duty..........and which finishes when the aeroplane finally comes to rest at the end of the last flight on which he is a crew member.
No we are not. Not for legality purposes. Look it up.
FDP
A period which commences when a crew member is required to report for duty..........and which finishes when the aeroplane finally comes to rest at the end of the last flight on which he is a crew member.
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30 minutes
The 30 minutes after the duty is exactly the same as EASA. The FDP stops at chocks on, the duty period AT LEAST 30 minutes after that. If you are delayed at the aircraft for wheelchairs or so, just make a note on when your duty stopped.
It's really all in the OM-A chapter 7, and not too difficult. It might help if you actually read the chapter once in a while, it is the most important one in the book.
And BTW, we are not paid for any flown duty, we are paid for scheduled block time...
It's really all in the OM-A chapter 7, and not too difficult. It might help if you actually read the chapter once in a while, it is the most important one in the book.
And BTW, we are not paid for any flown duty, we are paid for scheduled block time...
MR8
Actually MR8 there is no reference to the 30 min after chocks on in Ch 7 for pilots.
It is only in the CABIN crew section of chapter 7.
The FDP stops at chocks on, the duty period AT LEAST 30 minutes after that. If you are delayed at the aircraft for wheelchairs or so, just make a note on when your duty stopped.
It's really all in the OM-A chapter 7, and not too difficult.
It's really all in the OM-A chapter 7, and not too difficult.
It is only in the CABIN crew section of chapter 7.
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30 mins post chocks on are for your rest period calculation (ex: minimum rest )
At my previous airline , few miles east of here , captains who refused outrageous discirion received reduced bonus
I wish your posts here translate into reality and actually land the aircraft somewhere
At my previous airline , few miles east of here , captains who refused outrageous discirion received reduced bonus
I wish your posts here translate into reality and actually land the aircraft somewhere
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LAKER
"not for legality purposes"? Not sure what you meant by that comment as everything that's written in the OMA Chapter 7 is for legal purposes and I re affirm my statement that we do get the 30 minutes after chocks. That forms the basis for calculating post flight rest and is not part of the FDP which stops at chocks.
'Duty period' and 'Flight Duty Period' are different.
As someone has already alluded to, if we can't even work out the basics, what confidence will you have in discussing more complicated FDP issues. Refusing discretion when you're correctly interpreted the rules is one thing, refusing it because you read it wrong is another!
Be careful out there!
Harry
"not for legality purposes"? Not sure what you meant by that comment as everything that's written in the OMA Chapter 7 is for legal purposes and I re affirm my statement that we do get the 30 minutes after chocks. That forms the basis for calculating post flight rest and is not part of the FDP which stops at chocks.
'Duty period' and 'Flight Duty Period' are different.
As someone has already alluded to, if we can't even work out the basics, what confidence will you have in discussing more complicated FDP issues. Refusing discretion when you're correctly interpreted the rules is one thing, refusing it because you read it wrong is another!
Be careful out there!
Harry
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Rex Havoc: yes you are right about that, the reference of 'at least' can only be found in the cabin crew part. Having said that, as long as we share transport, the flight deck can't stop working before the cabin crew. As long as we are there, they do work under our authority, hence we are on duty as well, even if we are just waiting to get off the airplane. It is a point of view that I can defend easily towards our management in case of discussion.
Mullah: understanding what you read obviously isn't your forte.. Where did I mention that duty time is limiting? And the 30 minutes is not 'just the beginning of the subsequent rest period'. It IS the end of your DUTY period, which means it needs to be used for minimum rest calculation. It is also the reason why after a diversion where you run out of flight duty, the company can passenger you back to DXB with a relief crew if that was arranged. You might be out of FDP, but you are still on duty, and this time needs to be counted towards your rest and max DUTY periods as well. (55 in 7 etc...)
Flight Duty Period and Duty Period are two different things, one has strong limitations because they don't want you to flick switches after a certain time working, the other one is plain and simple your duty period...
Mullah: understanding what you read obviously isn't your forte.. Where did I mention that duty time is limiting? And the 30 minutes is not 'just the beginning of the subsequent rest period'. It IS the end of your DUTY period, which means it needs to be used for minimum rest calculation. It is also the reason why after a diversion where you run out of flight duty, the company can passenger you back to DXB with a relief crew if that was arranged. You might be out of FDP, but you are still on duty, and this time needs to be counted towards your rest and max DUTY periods as well. (55 in 7 etc...)
Flight Duty Period and Duty Period are two different things, one has strong limitations because they don't want you to flick switches after a certain time working, the other one is plain and simple your duty period...
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Harry,
I agree with you that Duty Period and FDP are two different animals. I am well aware of the basics. You have been here a long time. Has the 30 minutes of post flight duty ever been an issue with regards to your rest? 90% of EK layovers are 24 hours or longer.
The issues arise out of EK pushing the FDP to the max. Many of our turns are scheduled to the legal FDP limit. If you fly mach .85 and depart on time you often are forced into discretion due to the unrealistic taxi, flight, and turn around times provided by the commercial department. The unmentionable airline has made MLE and several of the South Indian destinations a layover due to the fact that they cannot be reasonably operated within the FTL limitations. All this tough talk about not accepting discretion but in 5 years I have never heard of a single EK crew refusing discretion and forcing a layover or DH back to Dubai.
I agree with you that Duty Period and FDP are two different animals. I am well aware of the basics. You have been here a long time. Has the 30 minutes of post flight duty ever been an issue with regards to your rest? 90% of EK layovers are 24 hours or longer.
The issues arise out of EK pushing the FDP to the max. Many of our turns are scheduled to the legal FDP limit. If you fly mach .85 and depart on time you often are forced into discretion due to the unrealistic taxi, flight, and turn around times provided by the commercial department. The unmentionable airline has made MLE and several of the South Indian destinations a layover due to the fact that they cannot be reasonably operated within the FTL limitations. All this tough talk about not accepting discretion but in 5 years I have never heard of a single EK crew refusing discretion and forcing a layover or DH back to Dubai.