EK - Variation 1!
 

From the week's safety roundup...Variation 1 will be reintroduced in May rosters for ops flex.

How can it simply be reintroduced (And yes, I know how, it's a rhetorical question!)?!

This place is, as our esteemed leadership would be delighted to hear, unbelievable!!!

Wheels, off, falling?

What gets me is that some flights are planned to the max FDP, well knowing you will have to go into discretion. As always, max allowed ist the target at EK.

I really don't understand this problem of discretion.
It is Cpt decision, so simply do not go into discretion.......

Whats variation 1??

Exactly flare!!!!! For me it is very simple. I can't and will not go into discretion on a night flight/turn, leaving Dubai knowing we can't make it. Pushing 900 hours and max flying/duty each month does not leave enough capacity for the body to be pushing even harder.

Invariably, the worst flights from that point of view are the India turns which also have to fly through Muscat and their congestion. So we get delayed BEFORE even leaving. This is why the unmentionable airline flies those routes as layovers.

But pilots keep doing it and, one day when something happens, they will be held to account for it. To be blunt--quite rightly! You have a choice and if you choose to push the limits then you may well get bitten.

Commander's Discretion
 

Dear All,

Commander's discretion it is, nobody else's. There can be no assumption that the Commander will grant it.......

Technically of course, one doesn't need discretion to get to Chennai, or wherever 4 hours eastbound in the middle of the night, but one may well need it to get home again. So therefore, before you leave DXB, call up company and confirm that they wish for you to proceed, on the basis that the next call they receive from you may well be after you have run out of hours and lobbed into Muscat on your way home...........

Any time you go into discretion on a variation 1 a report is sent to GCAA. Make sure you fill it out if you do it. Also, technically, if you read the lines, do you not have to decide to go into discretion before you leave?

No, it's as plank says: You have to go from Dubai, as long as there is the chance that with a 5' turnaround you could still remain within the FDR.
Once you realise that you will definitely exceed normal hours, at that time ask them where they want you to land. That'll make them jump and learn.

I repeat an earlier request:
Do not deal with them for going into any discretion or work on a day off by them removing a nasty turn on your roster, please.
It might suit you and definitely them, but you'll just shove down a nasty turn to one of your peers, no lesson learnt for the company and giving them the ticket to continue to abuse us.

By going into Commanders Discretion for regular operations, you are exposing your self to great liability. You are effectively saying "I agree to extend the duty period having taken consideration my fitness and the fitness of the crew".

Everyone knows that our hours are now excessive and hazardous, especially the cabin crew's. Increasing exposure to that hazard during regular operations is asking for trouble.

If you or any other crew member have an incident/accident in discretion, fatigue will most likely be the main contributing factor but by going into it you are effectively disregarding fatigue. You are accepting sole blame for anything that happens. Therefore if there is an incident/accident in discretion it will be looked at no differently than intentionally busting minimums or any other violation because you could have prevented an incident/accident by not excercising discretion.

The company loves this because people don't understand the rules and happily sit there at .82 (777) flying into discretion because they are afraid of getting into trouble. The company walks away from any liability free as you signed for it. Protect yourself, your crew and your passengers..Be a COMMANDER!

Go as fast as you can outbound, board extra fuel if required at destination to fly home as fast as you can. Disregard company notam about departing early inbound to DXB, do everything possible to avoid discretion. Variation is already a let by the GCAA to extend the duty day, effectively flying you into discretion without your permission.

Remember this order:
ASS
LICENCE
JOB

PS.. SOPS you better get a load of beer cooled off, I think your going to have lots of company in the next year!

Roger that Low, larger fridge on order:ok:

Not sure what your (UAE)FTL is like, but according EU-FTL discretion is supposed to be used only on outstations.. That would settle it for half the flights.

Depending how you view the word "should"

TOGA

I hope you're not taking the classes as you might need to brush up on the rules yourself before you lecture others. The 60 minutes report time before departure is included as part of the FDP calculations!

My beef, however, is the 23 minutes before that when we're required to 'brief' the cabin crew. That's the joke.

golfyankeesierra

Discretion does not differentiate between outstations or home base. EK's FTL's rules and regulations are based on the UK Cap371 with a few amendments specifically incorporated for our operations, including ULR's.

More reasons for political pressure to at least level the FTL's in all countries..

Just like the max flight hours, in other threads the max hours in Europe are mentioned to be 1000, but thats in a rolling year.
Max hours in Europe in a Calendar year is 900. I guess you go over that number easily if you make 90+ month after month...

I heard something during a recent CRM session which I took an instant dislike to, given our rosters at present. That is that one of our management pilots has said that we should always be reporting for duty in a condition, where we feel rested enough at the outset to foresee us being able to conduct a full FDP plus discretion.

Heard a similar thing Emma, 6 months or so ago during CRM, it was pointed out to the higher up, that discretion is just that, discretionary and never planned. It was lost in translation me thinks as all things get solved by VPNC dontcha know...

when I check in for duty I know that I might have to go to its limit so i always try to be well rested.
For discretion it is exactly the same........ I am always prepared no to go into it....... As simple as that.........
The problem is that many others don't and the company knows that

And at the risk of being told to go away again...that is the sort of thing that made me decided enough is enough. EK is just pushing people to push limits at every turn. Led by a overriding factor of fear management, they think they are being very clever.....but something is going to break.

TOGA find your way to the airplane and be there 1 hr prior, nothing stopping you.

Secure a job somewhere else beforehand tho