EK pilot number
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 213
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From: bahamas
EK pilot number
I am mid table. Since November 1 I have moved up 38 numbers. Since then we have hired 95 more people to the list. Thats a net gain of 57 pilots. I am sure a few people below me have left as well. But lets just presume that there are none. That means 40% of all new hires are replacing pilots who have left. How many airframes have arrived since November 1 and how many pilots do we staff per airplane at this wonderfully organised company?
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 426
Likes: 7
From: Dubai
I am mid table. Since November 1 I have moved up 38 numbers. Since then we have hired 95 more people to the list. Thats a net gain of 57 pilots. I am sure a few people below me have left as well. But lets just presume that there are none. That means 40% of all new hires are replacing pilots who have left. How many airframes have arrived since November 1 and how many pilots do we staff per airplane at this wonderfully organised company?
Joined: Nov 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 444
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From: Terra Firma
From the BBC regarding the crash of German Wings. Does this sound familiar?
"The newspaper reported that the aviation authority, the Luftfahrtbundesamt (LBA), was told in November to sort out problems including a lack of staff....."
and in the article, with EK being so multinational, the following must be taken very seriously.
"In light of investigators believing co-pilot Andreas Lubitz crashed the plane deliberately, the way airline crew are vetted has come under scrutiny."
J
"The newspaper reported that the aviation authority, the Luftfahrtbundesamt (LBA), was told in November to sort out problems including a lack of staff....."
and in the article, with EK being so multinational, the following must be taken very seriously.
"In light of investigators believing co-pilot Andreas Lubitz crashed the plane deliberately, the way airline crew are vetted has come under scrutiny."
J
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: us
factual #s
I am also in the middle and moved 12 numbers from Feb 1, 15 to Mar 31, 15.
6 a month. The most junior on same dates was number 3760 on SL moved to 3724. Thus 36 places in two months. hence 18 a month. At that rate 216 a year. 5.75%.
new joiners are 5-8 a week. (20) a few weeks of 12 and a few weeks of 3-4.
this includes the Cadets that slip in from time to time. SL list has 3772 today. net gain 12. / 2= 6 a month. total pilots has not been above 3776.
draw your own conclusions.
6 a month. The most junior on same dates was number 3760 on SL moved to 3724. Thus 36 places in two months. hence 18 a month. At that rate 216 a year. 5.75%.
new joiners are 5-8 a week. (20) a few weeks of 12 and a few weeks of 3-4.
this includes the Cadets that slip in from time to time. SL list has 3772 today. net gain 12. / 2= 6 a month. total pilots has not been above 3776.
draw your own conclusions.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 93
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From: Dubai
Told in wash up recently the seniority lists is not correct. It contains people that have left many moons ago, and is in no means a respectable means of trying to obtain a reasonable calculation of real pilots on the seniority list. Us having a published seniority list that is in no means correct as told by management.
Draw your own conclusions.
Draw your own conclusions.
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 83
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From: moon
They will never post the real seniority list anyway! How can they if the scenario is changing every month ... USA EU and other reality are calling ppl back and ready to be profitable for the next 10-15 years ...
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 172
Likes: 1
From: Michigan
2 pilots are still on the senority list even though they left 6 and 8 months ago.
However there are others that when they leave they are taken off the SL almost immediately. If you can figure out the differation please post it here.
However there are others that when they leave they are taken off the SL almost immediately. If you can figure out the differation please post it here.
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18
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From: Flylo head office
I was told the same thing at a useless wash up. Along with lies that the unmentionable, Qatar and the Chinese airlines are all working 90hrs+ stop wineing and be grateful as the other airlines don't give the benefits like the provident scheme, length of sick pay and wait for it..... 42 days holiday a year 😂😂 (most of the captains in the room fell off their chairs at this point).
I'm probably 2/5ths from the top of the FO seniority list and since September 2014 when the (inaccurate list) had approx 3690 pilots I've recorded the total pilots in the company rise and fall (everyone who joins seems to be put in the list???) and looks like we've gained 80 people. In the same time my seniority is up 65 places and through recording the list every couple of weeks I've noticed people below taken off the list (when they have left) The interesting thing is the list is inaccurate as people who have left several years ago are still on the list...... so that means the seniority list paints a worse picture for crewing 🙈
I'm probably 2/5ths from the top of the FO seniority list and since September 2014 when the (inaccurate list) had approx 3690 pilots I've recorded the total pilots in the company rise and fall (everyone who joins seems to be put in the list???) and looks like we've gained 80 people. In the same time my seniority is up 65 places and through recording the list every couple of weeks I've noticed people below taken off the list (when they have left) The interesting thing is the list is inaccurate as people who have left several years ago are still on the list...... so that means the seniority list paints a worse picture for crewing 🙈
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6
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From: on the moon
Solution: huge pay rise and profit share (which will not impact much the company budget) to attract more valuable candidates...then when numbers are here...more leave,more decent pay in line with our responsibilitites.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 283
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From: In the seat
I disagree, that's only part of the solution, it's now about lifestyle - no one can maintain 92 hrs of long haul for more than 5 yrs, it takes its toll!!!
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 302
Likes: 40
From: Building Site
How to fix this...
In my humble opinion, there is only one to way to fix the problem.
Let's first have a look at what the problem actually is: it is a lack of lifestyle. I don't hear anybody complaining about the money we get. Yes, we don't get enough for the amount of flying we are doing, sure enough, but if we would work a normal 80 hours roster with the current pay, nearly everybody would be happy or at least content.
The solution to this problem looks like a catch 22: we are suffering from these conditions because we don't have enough manpower, but we can't find enough people and people are leaving because we are suffering from these conditions.
The best way to overcome this problem is a massive change in basic conditions: we go back to 80 hrs/month for the basic pay, no restrictions on rostering and while we are at it, get rid of the flight pay and the bid groups... they complicate matters for no good reason whatsoever. Also, we introduce the old credit for duties again, 2.5 hrs for leave, 3.5 for STBY, minimum 3.5 for flights etc...
These actions would result in no lifestyle change initially, but a good pay rise due to the overtime. It would prevent people from leaving, because the pay at the current levels of work would be really good. It also sends a message as what the company is aiming for: back to 80 hrs contracts. Only this way will we be able to retain people and hire new guys at the same time. As more people will join EK, the overtime would slowly become less, so the money earned per month would come back towards what we are earning now, but this with a normal lifestyle and 80 hrs per month flying. Mission accomplished.
I do realise that this would take at least 2 years to accomplish, probably closer to 4 to get the right amount of crewing in. I also realise that short sighted managers at EK will never go for the long term solution, yet this is in my opinion the ONLY way to handle the current situation.
Let's first have a look at what the problem actually is: it is a lack of lifestyle. I don't hear anybody complaining about the money we get. Yes, we don't get enough for the amount of flying we are doing, sure enough, but if we would work a normal 80 hours roster with the current pay, nearly everybody would be happy or at least content.
The solution to this problem looks like a catch 22: we are suffering from these conditions because we don't have enough manpower, but we can't find enough people and people are leaving because we are suffering from these conditions.
The best way to overcome this problem is a massive change in basic conditions: we go back to 80 hrs/month for the basic pay, no restrictions on rostering and while we are at it, get rid of the flight pay and the bid groups... they complicate matters for no good reason whatsoever. Also, we introduce the old credit for duties again, 2.5 hrs for leave, 3.5 for STBY, minimum 3.5 for flights etc...
These actions would result in no lifestyle change initially, but a good pay rise due to the overtime. It would prevent people from leaving, because the pay at the current levels of work would be really good. It also sends a message as what the company is aiming for: back to 80 hrs contracts. Only this way will we be able to retain people and hire new guys at the same time. As more people will join EK, the overtime would slowly become less, so the money earned per month would come back towards what we are earning now, but this with a normal lifestyle and 80 hrs per month flying. Mission accomplished.
I do realise that this would take at least 2 years to accomplish, probably closer to 4 to get the right amount of crewing in. I also realise that short sighted managers at EK will never go for the long term solution, yet this is in my opinion the ONLY way to handle the current situation.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 314
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From: in a hotspot on that planet
MR 8
remember there was that quarterly update of STC....
it contained a direct link to him for feed back... Please forward that to him.
I 100% agree.... just one more thing i would ad.... No more condescending talks and threat emails from the middle management....
remember there was that quarterly update of STC....
it contained a direct link to him for feed back... Please forward that to him.
I 100% agree.... just one more thing i would ad.... No more condescending talks and threat emails from the middle management....
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 123
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From: charleroi
In my humble opinion, there is only one to way to fix the problem.
My take is that they are still working on means and methods of getting even more out of the crew for even less compensation.
Think of their bonuses if they (we) appear to do 100% of the work with only 90% of the crewing level of last year.