EK Pay review
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Your money
So, the pay at EK didn't really go up and I hope your provident fund or other investments won't go down. Be careful out there...
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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could the Dubai bubble be about to burst.
You can't polish a turd and especially so when you try to make that turd out to be a shining diamond! An economic slowdown in some shape of form in Dubai is 100% guaranteed as recent growth simply isn't sustainable. Sadly fuelled by greed!
As for a future 'crash'.......... hopefully not!
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Came across this today:
"There is an apocryphal story about "photographer-to-the great" Yosuf Karsh (may have misspelled his name) who used to charge $10,000 a portrait against an old army blanket. He would place his subjects there, fiddle a minute with the lights, and shoot off a few photos (believe he used an 8 x 10 so had to change the plates) but in all, about 5 to 10 minutes. He would then tell his clients he had finished.
What? They would say, $10,000 and you just took 5 minutes?
Ah, came the answer, but it has taken me 40 (or maybe it was 50) years to be able to take a beautiful portrait in 5 minutes....
Same as the famous surgeon called into the operating room, who examines the patient carefully, reviews the x-rays and steps up to the table and makes his incision. He then turns to the other surgeons, says "You may continue" and walks out. The patient, aghast at the $10,000 invoice for 5 minutes and one cut, complains. The surgeon replies, "The $10,000 is for knowing where to cut.
This does apply to many of us. Most of us are quite dedicated to our profession, craft or trade. We work very hard to stay up-to-date, remain knowledgeable and creative. We do a great deal 'behind the scenes' to be able to make our work look effortless."
I've been in this Industry and flying for over 20 years. The only thing that has been predictable, has been the degradation in remuneration, the greed and total lack of disrespect from "Management", and the division between professionals who should have been sticking together and making sure that the Public know that they will suffer if the greed of people who do not have any idea about our profession, continue to be able to "sell" the ideal that Pilots are not worth much or productive enough. All of us have sat there listening to them sell some new idea as "better for us" and "allowing more training" when we all know that it means they have found a route to saving money, that will cost us somehow. We, at the end of the day, are merely viewed as an expense.
Imagine if we performed only at the level of ineptitude that we regularly see from those at the bouncy castle?
Imagine if we stuck together like Doctors and Lawyers, even Nurses, Firemen, School Teachers and the list goes on?
Remember, a good Pilot knows when to SuckItup....right?
"There is an apocryphal story about "photographer-to-the great" Yosuf Karsh (may have misspelled his name) who used to charge $10,000 a portrait against an old army blanket. He would place his subjects there, fiddle a minute with the lights, and shoot off a few photos (believe he used an 8 x 10 so had to change the plates) but in all, about 5 to 10 minutes. He would then tell his clients he had finished.
What? They would say, $10,000 and you just took 5 minutes?
Ah, came the answer, but it has taken me 40 (or maybe it was 50) years to be able to take a beautiful portrait in 5 minutes....
Same as the famous surgeon called into the operating room, who examines the patient carefully, reviews the x-rays and steps up to the table and makes his incision. He then turns to the other surgeons, says "You may continue" and walks out. The patient, aghast at the $10,000 invoice for 5 minutes and one cut, complains. The surgeon replies, "The $10,000 is for knowing where to cut.
This does apply to many of us. Most of us are quite dedicated to our profession, craft or trade. We work very hard to stay up-to-date, remain knowledgeable and creative. We do a great deal 'behind the scenes' to be able to make our work look effortless."
I've been in this Industry and flying for over 20 years. The only thing that has been predictable, has been the degradation in remuneration, the greed and total lack of disrespect from "Management", and the division between professionals who should have been sticking together and making sure that the Public know that they will suffer if the greed of people who do not have any idea about our profession, continue to be able to "sell" the ideal that Pilots are not worth much or productive enough. All of us have sat there listening to them sell some new idea as "better for us" and "allowing more training" when we all know that it means they have found a route to saving money, that will cost us somehow. We, at the end of the day, are merely viewed as an expense.
Imagine if we performed only at the level of ineptitude that we regularly see from those at the bouncy castle?
Imagine if we stuck together like Doctors and Lawyers, even Nurses, Firemen, School Teachers and the list goes on?
Remember, a good Pilot knows when to SuckItup....right?
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Dubai
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baby boomer pilots...
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Serious question
When the Dubai boom collapses again will the AED be devalued against the USD?
Reminder to self: must sort out my USD account. Currently I move all I can via smartcurrencyexchange dot com but it still sits in AED.
Answered my own question - click MAX
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=USDAED=...=on&z=m&q=l&c=
Judge for yourself
Reminder to self: must sort out my USD account. Currently I move all I can via smartcurrencyexchange dot com but it still sits in AED.
Answered my own question - click MAX
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=USDAED=...=on&z=m&q=l&c=
Judge for yourself
Last edited by DCS99; 28th Jun 2014 at 06:54. Reason: google
Join Date: May 2006
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Watching this thread over the last few weeks, maybe we are part of a social experiment. It is the 5 stages of EK pay rises:
Denial - belief we will actually get one
Anger - when any email about T&Cs is received
Bargaining- skip this one as not allowed
Depression - on realising there is nothing you can do
Acceptance - don't like it but don't leave
I only just realised where we sit compared to back home. How many wide bodied Captain's cannot afford to buy a house where they live? No I am not talking about a 3 bed townhouse, a proper house reasonably near where they work. Unless you have 2 million AED in the bank, I don't see how it can be done. The worry is what I will have when I leave and how I will do in a high cost base country. Retirement might be a challenge.
Denial - belief we will actually get one
Anger - when any email about T&Cs is received
Bargaining- skip this one as not allowed
Depression - on realising there is nothing you can do
Acceptance - don't like it but don't leave
I only just realised where we sit compared to back home. How many wide bodied Captain's cannot afford to buy a house where they live? No I am not talking about a 3 bed townhouse, a proper house reasonably near where they work. Unless you have 2 million AED in the bank, I don't see how it can be done. The worry is what I will have when I leave and how I will do in a high cost base country. Retirement might be a challenge.
Last edited by ekwhistleblower; 1st Jul 2014 at 06:04. Reason: Sp
Join Date: Sep 2011
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I only just realised where we sit compared to back home. How many wide bodied Captain's cannot afford to buy a house where they live? No I am not talking about a 3 bed townhouse, a proper house reasonably near where they work. Unless you have 2 million AED in the bank, I don't see how it can be done. The worry is what I will have when I leave and how I will do in a high cost base country. Retirement might be a challenge.
Providing employees with accommodation, even an adequate one, only deepens his dependency of the company and still leaves him unable to build up fortune for retirement.
In case of EK the pay-fortune build up ratio has changed to negative around 2006/7, softening during the 2008 depression, but caught up in a typical ME-greed-way as soon as the world economy recovered. Today a normal house/apartment with 3 to 4 bedrooms in an adequate location costs AED 4 million+, a captains housing allocation will be AED 192000 pa. Now take out your calculator .......
However the line of applicants is still long enough for EK to disregard that problem.
But as eventual newbee you need to know: You will get older and eventually retire.
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Contacted
This sounds reasonable.
Today's applicants however (apart from the rare DEC) will not fit your profile.
The average RyanAir pilot joining EK will be in his 30ies, still paying off his 100k debt he spent achieving all the licences.
It's no longer our shoes, guys in their 40ies/50ies on the LHS.
It's a new world of applicants and we're writing here to give them the whole picture, even if they don't really want to face reality.
This sounds reasonable.
Today's applicants however (apart from the rare DEC) will not fit your profile.
The average RyanAir pilot joining EK will be in his 30ies, still paying off his 100k debt he spent achieving all the licences.
It's no longer our shoes, guys in their 40ies/50ies on the LHS.
It's a new world of applicants and we're writing here to give them the whole picture, even if they don't really want to face reality.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Glofish
Contacted has summed it all up in one post. Guys that expect to afford a 4-5 bed villa without putting some equity in from a previous sale are either naive, stupid or both. There's no doubt housing is expensive here, but compared to New York, London, Singapore, Paris or in fact any major city, is it not to be expected? Forget the 'can't compare' arguments. Whether we like it or not, Dubai is now a major and expensive city to live in.
So, for all the newbies paying off their debts, take the accommodation provided. No bills, no mortgage, no hassle and a great way to clear debt quickly. Hardly rocket science. For others, such as Whistleblower, buy a place back home and rent it, then you will have something at the end of your time here. Not many other airlines out there give you a free place to live while you can have a mortgage paid off buy someone else back home. Third option is take the plunge and buy somewhere here. Having over $50,000 a year additional cash to help pay off a mortgage is one hell of an incentive to take the plunge. In the UK you'd need to earn an extra $90,000 before tax to get that amount. Think about that!
Whatever you decide, the options are there, just decide what works for your individual circumstance and get on with it. Stop blaming others for apathy or poor financial decisions. For so called intelligent professionals it's embarrassing to read some of these sad and rather pathetic posts.
Harry
Contacted has summed it all up in one post. Guys that expect to afford a 4-5 bed villa without putting some equity in from a previous sale are either naive, stupid or both. There's no doubt housing is expensive here, but compared to New York, London, Singapore, Paris or in fact any major city, is it not to be expected? Forget the 'can't compare' arguments. Whether we like it or not, Dubai is now a major and expensive city to live in.
So, for all the newbies paying off their debts, take the accommodation provided. No bills, no mortgage, no hassle and a great way to clear debt quickly. Hardly rocket science. For others, such as Whistleblower, buy a place back home and rent it, then you will have something at the end of your time here. Not many other airlines out there give you a free place to live while you can have a mortgage paid off buy someone else back home. Third option is take the plunge and buy somewhere here. Having over $50,000 a year additional cash to help pay off a mortgage is one hell of an incentive to take the plunge. In the UK you'd need to earn an extra $90,000 before tax to get that amount. Think about that!
Whatever you decide, the options are there, just decide what works for your individual circumstance and get on with it. Stop blaming others for apathy or poor financial decisions. For so called intelligent professionals it's embarrassing to read some of these sad and rather pathetic posts.
Harry
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Whatever you decide, the options are there, just decide what works for your individual circumstance and get on with it. Stop blaming others for apathy or poor financial decisions. For so called intelligent professionals it's embarrassing to read some of these sad and rather pathetic posts.
here here.
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Here's an idea that I'd like to put forward.
Please don't let it blow your mind.
(1) Take the company villa in the generic location with all bills and maintenance paid.
(2) Keep your house in your home country, pay it off as quickly as possible by saving as much money as possible in Dubai - and if you have any left over invest in a buy-to-let property in a 'traditional' country where your value is secure in the long-term and not subject to speculation bubbles and nearby wars.
(3) Go home when fed up and paid up.
Or am I being too safe and boring?
Please don't let it blow your mind.
(1) Take the company villa in the generic location with all bills and maintenance paid.
(2) Keep your house in your home country, pay it off as quickly as possible by saving as much money as possible in Dubai - and if you have any left over invest in a buy-to-let property in a 'traditional' country where your value is secure in the long-term and not subject to speculation bubbles and nearby wars.
(3) Go home when fed up and paid up.
Or am I being too safe and boring?
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Just look at Dubai's property history--major swings. It is not for the faint hearted and carries a large amount of risk compared to other countries.
Dubai/UAE is an emerging economy and, as such, caries risk. Look at the stock market this week. 20% drop. Regardless of whether or not it is sparked by one company the INDEX itself, which represents the economy, took a major hit and nicely represents the risk of ANY investment here.
Add to the fact that for most people Dubai is temporary - ie. not spending the rest of your life here - and the level of risk amplifies due to the fact that the house value will swing and those swings may not coincide with your planned leaving date.
Back 'home' if the value declines it is usually not as risky since is your residence and a sale of it to move house means the other properties have declined as well. Or you can continue to live in the home.
Anyway, there are lots of threads on here with various opinions about property in Dubai.
I'll say this though--Dubai is not even close to being comparable to any other major city in the West. Period. With that comes immense risk.
Dubai/UAE is an emerging economy and, as such, caries risk. Look at the stock market this week. 20% drop. Regardless of whether or not it is sparked by one company the INDEX itself, which represents the economy, took a major hit and nicely represents the risk of ANY investment here.
Add to the fact that for most people Dubai is temporary - ie. not spending the rest of your life here - and the level of risk amplifies due to the fact that the house value will swing and those swings may not coincide with your planned leaving date.
Back 'home' if the value declines it is usually not as risky since is your residence and a sale of it to move house means the other properties have declined as well. Or you can continue to live in the home.
Anyway, there are lots of threads on here with various opinions about property in Dubai.
I'll say this though--Dubai is not even close to being comparable to any other major city in the West. Period. With that comes immense risk.