EK hiring DEC's for 2012.

[glofish]

Funny how it was portrayed that experienced T7 EK pilots would have a hell of a time to learn shaking that sidestick of the whale, although being familiar with the sops and the dealings of the company, but now some outsiders should be able to do that much better and faster.

Oh, I forgot, they would be looking only for 340 experienced astronauts.

That shouldn't be difficult, they run around in huge numbers ..... and those skippers would certainly be better suited than all our FOs already flying the 340.

Get real!

[fourgolds]

Perhaps at Qantas , fed up , looking for a change . They have 380, s

[glofish]

True. I forgot the decorated.

It certainly looked like a homecoming photo of a team of astronauts ....

[Boeing 777-300ER]

Reading this thread, or any other thread dealing with EK DEC's or any other airline for that matter, gets me really baffled and confused why people get so emotional.

When I joined my former airline (an EU and unionised airline) as a cadet and later as a F/O there was nowhere written down on the contract my right for upgrade or time frame. The only place where the minimum requirements for upgrade where written down was the training manual. Not in my contract or collective agreement.

When I was due for upgrade, they employed DEC's. When us guys ready for upgrade spoke to management in the presence of ALPA executives, the answer was a simple two word "company exigencies". As we were not really happy with the answer we appraoched an Industrial Relations lawyer and his answer was "You don't have a case here". Were we pissed off? Yes we were.

We got our upgrade and some of us by time left for a better salary or life style. And no we didn't join other airlines as F/O's because its the right and moral way to do. And I am sure that many EK F/O's will do the same when they are upgraded to the left seat and want to leave Dubai for greener pastures. They will apply for DEC positions and rightly so. One should never leave the left seat for a right seat, and if he or she does so it's at their own risk.

So I think its time for a reality check guys as airlines are competing in a cuthroat industry and their first priority is pounds/dollars/euros and not what is the right or correct or moral thing to please us employees.

[donpizmeov]

Didn't they stop hiring in the 2008/2009 financial year? I wonder if that is coming home to roost now as that would have been that magic 3yrs ago.
At least all the FOs in the company now knew to expect DECs when they joined. All the Fos that got shafted have been upgraded by now I think.

Time will tell. I do hope they use the fellas already in the company before looking outside.

New Tomcat you might get another chance after all.

the Don

[new tomcat]

Don, why would I want to work more hours for less pay to live in the sand?
Count me out but thanks for thinking of me.
I would think Emirates is going to have a tough time filling the DEC positions. Hardly any qualified, international, widebody captain is going to leave their airline to go to the middle east and slave 95 hours for Emirates. They will get the 2nd tier and the hard working FOs will have to babysit the pilots that took their jobs. That will be a site to see and I wish I could be a fly on the cockpit wall there.
The poor Emirates FOs get shafted again.

[Wizofoz]

I would think Emirates is going to have a tough time filling the DEC positions. Hardly any qualified, international, widebody captain is going to leave their airline to go to the middle east and slave 95 hours for Emirates.

Good money says you are wrong there, Tom. And the statement shows how out of touch you are with the reality of the Global job market.

[new tomcat]

Do you really think any widebody LH pilots are going to leave Germany to go slave for Emirates? How about Delta or Air France pilots?
For the record on the last round of DECs how many pilots came from top airlines that were flying international, widebodies as captains for top tier airlines? I know some pilots that Emirates got were flying at Delta but they were not flying internationally and some not even widebodies.
So Emirates is going to recruit DECs and I will bet you a month's salary that they will not get 10% of the total DECs that are currently flying international widebodies for a good airline. Care to take that bet Wizo?
We all know QF won't scab (DEC) after all they went through in 1989. Don't take our jobs but we can take yours.

[Wizofoz]

Do you really think any widebody LH pilots are going to leave Germany to go slave for Emirates? How about Delta or Air France pilots?

Arr...now the goal post shifting starts. Who said anything about Germany, Air France or Delta (though we have Pilots from all three).

For the record on the last round of DECs how many pilots came from top airlines that were flying international, widebodies as captains for top tier airlines?

Again, not what you said. You said:-

Hardly any qualified, international, widebody captain is going to leave their airline to go to the middle east and slave 95 hours for Emirates.

Was there a single mention of Europe, America or "Top Tier" in any statement you made?

Some of the best pilots i've come across fly here and are from places like Ethiopia,Malasia, Brazil and Uraguy, and there are many qualifed, experienced wide body pilots from those places who would gladly come here, and I have a feeling a boat load of QF guys will soon be following.

...Or don't they count??

So Emirates is going to recruit DECs and I will bet you a month's salary that they will not get 10% of the total DECs that are currently flying international widebodies for a good airline.

Not what you said, not what I bet. Are you willing to stick with your original statement, or is this an admission it was wrong?

And are you saying only pilots from what you define as a "Good" Airline qualify as "Good" pilots?

We all know QF won't scab (DEC) after all they went through in 1989.

QANTAS weren't involved in '89 (but you knew that, right?), and I have several QF freinds interested in coming here DEC.

Don't take our jobs but we can take yours.

I have no idea what that means in this context.


That being said, I repeat-EK would not need DECs if it simply changed it's upgrade policy. I am not supporting hiring DECs, I'm just pointing out that New Tomcat is mistaken if he thinks we wouldn't recieve enough qualified applicants.

[motley flight crue]

Just because they are QF captains, doesn't mean they'll just walk in as DEC. our network is far more challenging then they're pathetic repetitive network. They aren't as fantastic as they think, DEC here is tougher than anything they have done in QF.

[virginexcess]

Bit harsh.

Not their fault that they have a "pathetic" network. There was a time when Emirates had the pathetic network. Karachi and back if i recall. That was it. Despite their pathetic network, those guys managed to lay the groundwork for the airline that you inherited.

I agree that EK network is quite challenging, but equally I would challenge most EK drivers to deliver the result that the A380 crew did in Singapore.

I don't think too many QF Captains would be found wanting at EK, once they were exposed to the network. QF have a rigorous upgrade course as well you know. And once they got over the culture shock, like most EK pilots, they would be extremely capable crew members.

[Flying Spag Monster]

That would be the same QF captains recently involved in Industrial Action to guarantee their job security then... EK was founded on DECs, no secret no complaints.

[Schnowzer]

VE,

Just asking! If the QF crew had blown off all the ECAMs and put the wheels and as much high lift devices out as possible then landed would the result have been the same? Or did they do something clever that changed the situation?

Szr

[woofer]

Emirates network far more challenging

EK's network is far more challenging

Can anyone explain why it's far more challenging or demanding?

Thanks

[donpizmeov]

I think its got to do with trying to stay awake.

The Don

[White Knight]

Originally Posted by virginexcess

I agree that EK network is quite challenging, but equally I would challenge most EK drivers to deliver the result that the A380 crew did in Singapore

Well Mr VE, I'm sure the QF crew did a marvellous job; but why tw@t around in the air when you can drop the wheels, lay on some flap and land!!!! Oh yeah - schnowzer pointed that out, but I thought the same

Get it on the ground................... It's not rocket-science. Except to some of the Oz-mates I guess

[glofish]

I'm definitely in with Schnowzer and WK.

It's losing control airborne (CG et al.) versus landing distance that was a little critical.
I'd rather overrun a bit (in SIN not really lethal) than lose control at 6000 feet.

I know, thread creep.

But going back to the original thread:
Why don't you decorated QF astronauts come over as DEC! You could teach us all how it's really done.
Wouldn't that be win - win??

[Tankengine]

So, after you ran off the runway [and at the weight just after T/O it would have been well off!] and the company asked why you did not do any ecams or check runway length required you would say what exactly?

Regarding DECs:

I think you will find most QF Captains would prefer to stay at home.

If required though, they would do a fine job, just like current EK Pilots.

[glofish]

So, after you ran off the runway [and at the weight just after T/O it would have been well off!] and the company asked why you did not do any ecams or check runway length required you would say what exactly?

Regarding DECs:

I think you will find most QF Captains would prefer to stay at home.

If required though, they would do a fine job, just like current EK Pilots.

To flatten the waves a bit:

Probably the majority of EK pilots would have preferred to stay at home, but couldn't.
It looks different with a cosy contract at home. Just wait until yours gets joyced or scrapped for good. You might start liking to come to the pit.

If you come, I am certain you would do a fine job. We need pilots, maybe not necessarily DECs.
If though, just be aware that coming as DEC is not a walk in the park.





(now as a continuation of the thread creep, you don't have to read that:
The QF chaps did a good job bringing the aircraft down in one piece. It is however more than legitimate to analyze the accident and maybe come to a different conclusion.
- Remember SR111 at Halifax. The crew went down the same road, trying to work the checklist and dump fuel. Unfortunately the aircraft gave it up before they could realize their plan. Some then pretended it would have been more appropriate to land directly, even taking into consideration an overrun on that short runway. When is what plan more successful? QF32 could have gone awfully wrong staying airborne just as SR111 could have gone well with an overrun. It's hard to judge in the aftermath, but it leaves both plans open to debate.
- QF32 had a five men crew. How often do you get that? Isn't the modern airliner set up for a two man crew? Would two men have been able to go and do a visual check? Would they have been able to interpolate between various tables to assess some landing distance? I guess not. Remember the captain was basically a sidestick operator and the FO a ECAM operator. No time for additional stuff! They might just have gone for plan B under such circumstances. Now, should we never board a 380 if less than five crew on board?
- I took the configuration of QF32 and worked the landing distance of a T7 with MTOW. No overrun in SIN. Should we not board a 380 with MTOW, because it has this huge LD requirement?

Again, they did a good job, kudos.
But it seems that today we make heroes of about any pilot who gets the aircraft down in one piece and then pretend he would have been the rare one succeeding (implementing that we all, the others, might have not) and that his choice was the only viable one.

If it's not open to debate, we do not really learn, we only copy.)

[donpizmeov]

The transfer of 58 CAs from the 330 to the 777 should get rid of the need for DECs. FCI says it starts FEB 12, so get em while they are hot.

the Don