EK Provident Fund: choices and why don't we have more?
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EK Provident Fund: choices and why don't we have more?
Gents,
I'm sorry to air this on the ME Forum, but I don't have access to the private Emirates one and I'd like a few questions answered.
I am in the A+B fund and the choice of funds available is criminally atrocious. If I'm stuck in this system, then why oh why can't I put my money in the other funds on offer in the 'C' fund? I can't find an answer anywhere on this. Can anyone help please?
And what is the "BlackRock Equity portfolio"? A portfolio of what equities?
Really, this is our money; can't we all just get together as a body (not anything Union related of course) and have more say as to where and how we allocate our hard earned money? Do we really have to accept what we're given?
I don't want this to be a bitchin' session please, but any positive posts would be much appreciated.
cheers
Keith
I'm sorry to air this on the ME Forum, but I don't have access to the private Emirates one and I'd like a few questions answered.
I am in the A+B fund and the choice of funds available is criminally atrocious. If I'm stuck in this system, then why oh why can't I put my money in the other funds on offer in the 'C' fund? I can't find an answer anywhere on this. Can anyone help please?
And what is the "BlackRock Equity portfolio"? A portfolio of what equities?
Really, this is our money; can't we all just get together as a body (not anything Union related of course) and have more say as to where and how we allocate our hard earned money? Do we really have to accept what we're given?
I don't want this to be a bitchin' session please, but any positive posts would be much appreciated.
cheers
Keith
Last edited by Keith Discovering; 22nd Jul 2011 at 10:34.
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Keith
Would I be right to assume you've not met with Mondial yet? If so, why not give them a call. It's a free service to us that Emirates pays for. We get 2 free consultations per year. They've been extremely helpful and I make full use of them. They can advise on many issue, from the content of equity funds to explaining why the selection of funds are so limited for the A & B accounts. It's to do with risk aversion and statutory UAE End Of Service Benefits. It is in Emirates interest to have a conservative pension fund to avoid paying out twice, the money they put in each month (12%) which could be lost if the market bombs and then having to give you 1 month in each year of service as the risky fund is now worth less than this amount.
If you're after more risk and have spare cash, use the C fund. Dollar cost averaging is a great way to build wealth, especially in a volatile market such as the one we are in now. The best bit of all is that they're free. 1-3% can be the going rate for yearly fund management and over 15-20 years, that can add up to one hell of a cost saving overall.
Would I be right to assume you've not met with Mondial yet? If so, why not give them a call. It's a free service to us that Emirates pays for. We get 2 free consultations per year. They've been extremely helpful and I make full use of them. They can advise on many issue, from the content of equity funds to explaining why the selection of funds are so limited for the A & B accounts. It's to do with risk aversion and statutory UAE End Of Service Benefits. It is in Emirates interest to have a conservative pension fund to avoid paying out twice, the money they put in each month (12%) which could be lost if the market bombs and then having to give you 1 month in each year of service as the risky fund is now worth less than this amount.
If you're after more risk and have spare cash, use the C fund. Dollar cost averaging is a great way to build wealth, especially in a volatile market such as the one we are in now. The best bit of all is that they're free. 1-3% can be the going rate for yearly fund management and over 15-20 years, that can add up to one hell of a cost saving overall.
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There is no annual fee attached to the C fund. Period.
If some of the funds you choose have fees attached, which they may well have as these funds are available to the public too, they are refunded. Take a look at the statement.
If some of the funds you choose have fees attached, which they may well have as these funds are available to the public too, they are refunded. Take a look at the statement.
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They may not have direct fees attached to them but there are management fees. These come from the companies/analysts that run the funds and usually amount to a few percentage points a year.
BUT---you don't see those fees. They come off the 'price' of the unit. So, if the fund goes up 5% in a year a 'fee' of around 2% (on avg) has already been deducted. You don't see it because the daily close price is adjusted to reflect the fees coming off.
But there are fees.
BUT---you don't see those fees. They come off the 'price' of the unit. So, if the fund goes up 5% in a year a 'fee' of around 2% (on avg) has already been deducted. You don't see it because the daily close price is adjusted to reflect the fees coming off.
But there are fees.
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Sorry guys, but still disagree. Reason being that management fees have to be declared and can't be 'hidden' within the trade price. They have to be transparent by law, otherwise they could not function and operate within those highly regulated markets.
I have a UK fund currently running which I no longer contribute to. Every year I receive a statement and it clearly shows a management fee of 1.5%. it's deducted regardless of whether the fund increases or decreases in value. This is not so with the C fund.
I have a UK fund currently running which I no longer contribute to. Every year I receive a statement and it clearly shows a management fee of 1.5%. it's deducted regardless of whether the fund increases or decreases in value. This is not so with the C fund.
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This from the Watson Wyatt site:
"The funds used by the Emirates Group Provident Scheme enjoy beneficial charges which are significantly better than the charges which apply to ordinary investors in the funds. As the majority of the funds used by the Scheme are mutual funds, used by other private and institutional investors, the fact sheets shown below are generic and show the standard charges not the improved terms available through the Scheme. For details of the actual improved Emirates specific management charges applying to each fund, please refer to the "Investment Summary Guide". This can be found in the "Literature and Forms" section of ePA."
All funds used in the Provident Scheme charge some management fees, usually around 0.5 to 0.75%.
"The funds used by the Emirates Group Provident Scheme enjoy beneficial charges which are significantly better than the charges which apply to ordinary investors in the funds. As the majority of the funds used by the Scheme are mutual funds, used by other private and institutional investors, the fact sheets shown below are generic and show the standard charges not the improved terms available through the Scheme. For details of the actual improved Emirates specific management charges applying to each fund, please refer to the "Investment Summary Guide". This can be found in the "Literature and Forms" section of ePA."
All funds used in the Provident Scheme charge some management fees, usually around 0.5 to 0.75%.
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Take all your money and buy a couple of Gold Bars, it'll beat any fund for return. And in any case the US is about to default on its debt and the entire dollar system is about to collapse and that's when people will realize they had put all their trust on useless paper that is really only backed by the US Foreign policy and their army and not much else.
For those who disagree, I'd tell you to put your money where your mouth is but you already have, so its just a matter of waiting it out and seeing how this crazy game of speculation plays out.
For those who disagree, I'd tell you to put your money where your mouth is but you already have, so its just a matter of waiting it out and seeing how this crazy game of speculation plays out.
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JET II
Thanks for the quote. I obviously stand corrected on that but not sure why Mondial said there were no charges. Maybe it was referring to the A & B funds which are specific to EK? That would be more logical.
I have not seen any management charges on the C statement. Trader could also be right but I understood that fees have to be stated for transparency. If it was a locally run fund then I could understand but for the regulated funds such as this, it seems odd.
Keith
You started the topic, any thoughts yet and have you spoken with Mondial? You say it's criminal as it's your money but I wonder how proactive you really are in getting answers?
Thanks for the quote. I obviously stand corrected on that but not sure why Mondial said there were no charges. Maybe it was referring to the A & B funds which are specific to EK? That would be more logical.
I have not seen any management charges on the C statement. Trader could also be right but I understood that fees have to be stated for transparency. If it was a locally run fund then I could understand but for the regulated funds such as this, it seems odd.
Keith
You started the topic, any thoughts yet and have you spoken with Mondial? You say it's criminal as it's your money but I wonder how proactive you really are in getting answers?
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Thanks for all your replies Gents,
Yes you're right Bymonek about EK's risk aversion regarding the A+B funds.I am still at a loss with this policy though. If its to do with EK not having to pay twice for EoSB, then they should have a fund that guarantees the minimum legal limit and don't give us any choice. I'm no financial wizard, but I know guys out there that have had a significant drop in their 'investments' using these very limited funds. If they retired or left today, these 'managed funds' won't meet the EoSB requirement you allude to.
I said the 'choice of funds was criminally atrocious' and i stand by that. Why can't we have more choice? The argument of risk aversion doesn't tally with the results of the funds.
What have I proactively done to get answers? Well, for a start i wrote this post. I tried to get some interest in us, as pilots, to have greater choice in what is available. Nearly 1400 views, and no one thinks like I do? I guess everyone else has visited Mondial and got great advice and is happy with their A+B fund. Best I get a visit quickly...
Yes you're right Bymonek about EK's risk aversion regarding the A+B funds.I am still at a loss with this policy though. If its to do with EK not having to pay twice for EoSB, then they should have a fund that guarantees the minimum legal limit and don't give us any choice. I'm no financial wizard, but I know guys out there that have had a significant drop in their 'investments' using these very limited funds. If they retired or left today, these 'managed funds' won't meet the EoSB requirement you allude to.
I said the 'choice of funds was criminally atrocious' and i stand by that. Why can't we have more choice? The argument of risk aversion doesn't tally with the results of the funds.
What have I proactively done to get answers? Well, for a start i wrote this post. I tried to get some interest in us, as pilots, to have greater choice in what is available. Nearly 1400 views, and no one thinks like I do? I guess everyone else has visited Mondial and got great advice and is happy with their A+B fund. Best I get a visit quickly...
Last edited by Keith Discovering; 28th Jul 2011 at 09:44.
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Any Americans here at EK on this forum?
Hello guys,
Just trying to do my homework. I'm an American going through the recruitment process.
I'm through phase 1 and waiting for Sim Eval time/date so I want to do my homework in advance so if I get an offer, I'm not scrambling to find info and make a choice base on bad info.
I have some specific questions regarding issues and items for American's over in Dubai so we can take it on a private nature if needed.
Thanks,
MS
Just trying to do my homework. I'm an American going through the recruitment process.
I'm through phase 1 and waiting for Sim Eval time/date so I want to do my homework in advance so if I get an offer, I'm not scrambling to find info and make a choice base on bad info.
I have some specific questions regarding issues and items for American's over in Dubai so we can take it on a private nature if needed.
Thanks,
MS
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FYI: Newbies considering ME.
EY doesnt have a provident fund.
Im not saying the co is better or worse but EK has it, EY doesnt. Among a few other things like this years 14 week bonus!
Makes a big difference if your going for 5 years or more.
EY doesnt have a provident fund.
Im not saying the co is better or worse but EK has it, EY doesnt. Among a few other things like this years 14 week bonus!
Makes a big difference if your going for 5 years or more.
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If you end up joining the company then the Provident Fund choices are going to be way down the list of issues. When you first start you are automatically placed in a very conservative fund, then when you have time and a bit more information you can make any changes you want. You are allowed 8 changes for free in any year so I wouldn't even think about the Provident Fund until you are settled in.
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Hi, considering the chaos that the American politicians have recently created and the way they have rattled the markets with their indecision it clearly shows they have NO IDEA how to get together and pay off the 1.2million dollars PER HEAD of unfunded liabilties in the US.
The US$ will implode in the coming near future (3>10 years max) and all asset classes being held in the dollar will become worthless. In-fact the way that global trade has been run in the last 2 decades has been shocking and fiat money ie paper based on nothing that governments would trade it in for except more printed money, or more worthless paper. Just look at gold silver and the commodity markets over the last 10 years, if you don't understand whats going on, DO understand that these increasing commodity values are due to a process in the US hellbent on destroying the dollar.
What concerns me is everywhere on the planet will be affected by a US$ collapse (a matter of when not if) and if you stayed in EK, the provident fund will become worthless no matter what have invested in as the funds are all non commodity based. By that I mean if you invest in bonds or equities they will become a worthless asset when the dollar is worthless. A lot of shares or trust units of a worthless currency = alot of nothing. A lot of commodity despite a depreciating US$ will still be alot of commodity valued even more as the dollar devalues.
I am shocked to understand why EK pilots don't somehow push the company into action on the provident fund and allow a commodity based asset to be purchased in the funds.
5kgs gold silver copper etc will always be 5kgs or a quantity of a desired commodity to be traded in any strong currency and retains its purchasing power no matter. 200kUS$ of an equity or bond or fund will be worthless when the $ becomes a retired global currency and greatly depreciates against the worlds new global currencies.
Trying to preserve the fund is important and I feel that EK pilots are unaware of the impending loss of their funds value or are just too stupid to campaign to get EK to at least offer a new investment vehicle within the fund to protec the value of your fund.
I have no idea how to get EK to ask the fund provider to offer commodity based investments, I write this in hope that several (100's would be nice) people might email the provident fund manager in EK and push for this change. Good Luck if you do try to help change the fund asset allocation, do email them, its for retention of all (Y)our cash and we should all be pressing them to do it asap.
The US$ will implode in the coming near future (3>10 years max) and all asset classes being held in the dollar will become worthless. In-fact the way that global trade has been run in the last 2 decades has been shocking and fiat money ie paper based on nothing that governments would trade it in for except more printed money, or more worthless paper. Just look at gold silver and the commodity markets over the last 10 years, if you don't understand whats going on, DO understand that these increasing commodity values are due to a process in the US hellbent on destroying the dollar.
What concerns me is everywhere on the planet will be affected by a US$ collapse (a matter of when not if) and if you stayed in EK, the provident fund will become worthless no matter what have invested in as the funds are all non commodity based. By that I mean if you invest in bonds or equities they will become a worthless asset when the dollar is worthless. A lot of shares or trust units of a worthless currency = alot of nothing. A lot of commodity despite a depreciating US$ will still be alot of commodity valued even more as the dollar devalues.
I am shocked to understand why EK pilots don't somehow push the company into action on the provident fund and allow a commodity based asset to be purchased in the funds.
5kgs gold silver copper etc will always be 5kgs or a quantity of a desired commodity to be traded in any strong currency and retains its purchasing power no matter. 200kUS$ of an equity or bond or fund will be worthless when the $ becomes a retired global currency and greatly depreciates against the worlds new global currencies.
Trying to preserve the fund is important and I feel that EK pilots are unaware of the impending loss of their funds value or are just too stupid to campaign to get EK to at least offer a new investment vehicle within the fund to protec the value of your fund.
I have no idea how to get EK to ask the fund provider to offer commodity based investments, I write this in hope that several (100's would be nice) people might email the provident fund manager in EK and push for this change. Good Luck if you do try to help change the fund asset allocation, do email them, its for retention of all (Y)our cash and we should all be pressing them to do it asap.
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any way you look at it the usd is not going anywhere fast where we would want it to be so as far pf or salary is concerned it will continue to be less in value as the aed is pegged to the dollar and no signs of it being otherwise. the usd is trending down even though it seems now going up in the short term
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Regarding the death of the dollar, here is the backup proof and case for the dollarsdeath. Listen to the Aug 9th 2 videos from Bob Chapman.
SGTreport.com
SGTreport.com
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I do not have a big gripe with the fund choices for the A and B accounts. They have to be conservative as it's more about capital protection than it is about capital appreciation.
What I do have a major problem with is both the timing of switches, and the lack of transparency that the process has. I have lost thousands of dollars during switches because of the timing of the currency exchange or the day of sale/buy differential. I just had another one that I am currently investigating. They gave me the closing price for the fund on the day before the order was made!!!
If that is in fact the way that some fund switches can occur then I will start gaming the market. All I would need to do is watch the Asian market afternoon performance and then place an order to switch cash to an equity fund prior to 7am UK time in order to get a nice pop. Do that 3-4 times a year switching between equities and cash on those days that there is a 5% jump in Asia and one would stand to increase returns significantly during the course of a full year.
Typhoonpilot
What I do have a major problem with is both the timing of switches, and the lack of transparency that the process has. I have lost thousands of dollars during switches because of the timing of the currency exchange or the day of sale/buy differential. I just had another one that I am currently investigating. They gave me the closing price for the fund on the day before the order was made!!!
If that is in fact the way that some fund switches can occur then I will start gaming the market. All I would need to do is watch the Asian market afternoon performance and then place an order to switch cash to an equity fund prior to 7am UK time in order to get a nice pop. Do that 3-4 times a year switching between equities and cash on those days that there is a 5% jump in Asia and one would stand to increase returns significantly during the course of a full year.
Typhoonpilot
