AUH's Missing Hold
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Joined: Aug 2007
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From: AUS
AUH's Missing Hold
Has anyone seem the "standard (non) published holds" ATC keeps talking about when going into abu dhabi?
ATC are getting the arse because EY crews dont know about them yet they are not mentioned on the Jep approach charts that were just updated on 7th April.
Everyone is holding on different radials and getting vectors....would it not be easier to issue a NOTAM until they are clear on AUH approach charts?
Just a thought!
ATC are getting the arse because EY crews dont know about them yet they are not mentioned on the Jep approach charts that were just updated on 7th April.
Everyone is holding on different radials and getting vectors....would it not be easier to issue a NOTAM until they are clear on AUH approach charts?
Just a thought!
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: UAE
I hate to say this, cuz I missed it to, but there is a notam. Its buried away in the enroute section I think. But, it does seem kind of stupid to issue a hold on a waypoint that is not on your route of flight or on any chart.
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: UAE
Think it may be an en-route hold. You can find it on the sectional en-route chart. Undrerstand that OMAA Radar/App were not consulted by UAE Centre on the changes and knew nothing about it....
Me think co-ordination between UAE and OMAA/OMDB could be improved. Not sure why it is like this...
Me think co-ordination between UAE and OMAA/OMDB could be improved. Not sure why it is like this...
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From: Middle East
not mentioned on the Jep approach charts
Sounds like your company ops problem to me, Jeps are not the authority in UAE, the AIP is. Pretty fed up with that ol 'But it's not on the Jeps' malarkey when there is a niggly grizzle from the operator.
Local ANS ATC authorities and providers will make no reference to, or use JEPS (a wholly owned subsidiary of Boeing) in the UAE, and for that matter probably most of the FIR's!
A reminder of some of the Jeppesen caveats:
EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY PROVIDED TO THE CONTRARY IN A WRITING BY JEPPESEN, THE SITES, THE SITE MATERIALS AND THE SERVICES (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE CHART SERVICES AND ANY SOFTWARE OBTAINED THROUGH THE SITES) ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED.
WITHOUT LIMITING THE FOREGOING, JEPPESEN DOES NOT REPRESENT OR WARRANT THE DESIGN, ADEQUACY, ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, SAFETY, OR CONFORMANCE WITH STANDARDS OR REGULATIONS OF ANY FLIGHT PROCEDURE PRESCRIBED BY A GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY OR OTHER OUTSIDE SOURCE OR THAT THE SITES, THE SERVICES OR THE SITE MATERIALS (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE CHARTS AND ANY VIEWING/PRINTING SOFTWARE OR OTHER SOFTWARE OBTAINED FROM THE SITE) ARE ACCURATE, COMPLETE, RELIABLE, CURRENT OR ERROR-FREE.
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Planet Earth
XAKUM was causing so many problems the other night, I think they will re-name it XANAX... you would think after the 8th aircraft asked for the spelling and hold info ATC would be more accomodating just to save time on the frequency... "say again fix.... say again.... uhh.. can you spell that?" The guy was getting so pissy about it.
I found the published hold on the area chart, not the 7/8 ME... but it was so congested that it didn't have room to show the inbound course (317 i believe it ended up being)
I found the published hold on the area chart, not the 7/8 ME... but it was so congested that it didn't have room to show the inbound course (317 i believe it ended up being)
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From: South of the border
Hey foxsnapsh!t 
Pretty fed up with that ol 'as published' malarkey when quite clearly its not published or at least to hand in the doc's we have in front of us. The "Its in the AIP" argument is unfortunately of no help, it may as well be locked in a safe on the moon.
As drivers, we are reminded daily we are at the bottom of the food chain, and as such we can only work with what we have available to us.
In my opinion, as Pilots/Controllers we are side by side toiling at the coalface, and we have to help each other out at times to get the job done.
If this issue is a known threat, then those in the know,know they have to do something about it.
Pretty fed up with that ol 'But it's not on the Jeps' malarkey when there is a niggly grizzle from the operator.
As drivers, we are reminded daily we are at the bottom of the food chain, and as such we can only work with what we have available to us.
In my opinion, as Pilots/Controllers we are side by side toiling at the coalface, and we have to help each other out at times to get the job done.
If this issue is a known threat, then those in the know,know they have to do something about it.
Last edited by Dixons Cider; 19th April 2011 at 11:48.
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From: The World
It's amazing how BAW, DLH, etc etc can fly to this 'mystery hold' without any problems. If we get 'pissy' it's because we get frustrated with having to spell/repeat ourselves so many times. With increased numbers into AD, people need to start getting used to going to the hold and not questioning why every time?
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: AUS
i'm sure we dont want to go dwn the who is ot blame thing...we can all throw stines at each other, the simple facts are the main or only hold being used for AUH is not on the main airlines approach plates..its not ATC's fault, or indeed our as simple drivers..it does need fixing though.
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Hunched over a keyboard
There - added the missing words for you. 
Back on topic, I'm not that familiar with the airspace but is there a suitable "published" hold that could be used instead of this semi-secret one? By "published" I mean on the plates that the crew would have handy, not in some reference tome that is inconvenient to use in flight.
Back on topic, I'm not that familiar with the airspace but is there a suitable "published" hold that could be used instead of this semi-secret one? By "published" I mean on the plates that the crew would have handy, not in some reference tome that is inconvenient to use in flight.
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From: Between Vedex and Murag!
XAKUM
It was always on the SUPPL Enroute Jepp chart ME(HL)-7A...
And GADVO hold has been completely withdrawn
A0191/11 A0991/10
A)OMAE
D)H24
E)XAKUM RNAV5 HLDG PROC ESTABLISHED
AS FLW:
PSN XAKUM 245833N 0535222E
INBD LEG : 117 DEG MAG
TURN : RIGHT
OUBD : 1 MIN
SPEEDS : STD
UPPER LIMIT : FL260
LOWER LIMIT : 5,000 FT
NOTAMR
Q)OMAE/QPHCS/I/BO/E/045/999/2500N05430E999
B)1103060620
Happy holdings...
And GADVO hold has been completely withdrawn
A0191/11 A0991/10
A)OMAE
D)H24
E)XAKUM RNAV5 HLDG PROC ESTABLISHED
AS FLW:
PSN XAKUM 245833N 0535222E
INBD LEG : 117 DEG MAG
TURN : RIGHT
OUBD : 1 MIN
SPEEDS : STD
UPPER LIMIT : FL260
LOWER LIMIT : 5,000 FT
NOTAMR
Q)OMAE/QPHCS/I/BO/E/045/999/2500N05430E999
B)1103060620
Happy holdings...
Joined: Oct 2009
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From: out there
The whole concept that was introduced needs to be scrapped and started again. Consider that when the changes were brought in only half the atcos were trained to work the airspace, the other half (more critical) were not trained? Add to that, the changes were made by notam and not brought in through the normal airac cycle was even more moronic. A real feather in GCAA's cap.
EYZ
Quite correct, it's the pilots and atcs that end up trying to sort the cr@p out. One wonders why atc management did not take the lead and walk next door and give a briefing? Too busy admiring their offices no doubt?
EYZ
Quite correct, it's the pilots and atcs that end up trying to sort the cr@p out. One wonders why atc management did not take the lead and walk next door and give a briefing? Too busy admiring their offices no doubt?
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Between Vedex and Murag!
stand corrected
I believe this hold has been designed for W inbound traffic into the UAE...so inbound course 117°.
My post is a copy-paste from GCAA official monthly NOTAM release (here).
You're referring to ATBET (not sure of the spelling) hldg perhaps.
My post is a copy-paste from GCAA official monthly NOTAM release (here).
You're referring to ATBET (not sure of the spelling) hldg perhaps.
