New DXB tower/radar procedures - flightcrew please read
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New DXB tower/radar procedures - flightcrew please read
Greetings pilots of the Middle East. On March 10th at 00:00Z (04:00L) DXB tower and radar will implement new procedures that, with your co-operation, will greatly increase capacity and efficiency whilst maintaining a safe ATC service.
As a bit of background you guys often pick up delays at the holding point on departure as the tower controller is severely restricted in when they can issue a takeoff clearance in relation to the arriving traffic on the parallel runway. Dubai’s offset parallel runways are too close together for ICAO/GCAA approval to operate departures and arrivals independently. As such, in standard dual operations (dependant mode) the tower has to have the departure rolling by the time the inbound on the parallel runway is at 2 DME to ensure the departure passes the upwind end of the staggered parallel runway before the arrival crosses the threshold of the landing runway, to ensure separation in the event of a go around, eg departure 12R has to be passing abeam M13B airborne or rolling before arrival crosses threshold 12L or the controller is relieved of duty as a technical loss of runway separation has occurred. This results in huge inefficiencies on departure when tower marshalls aircraft at holding points to get north/south SID splits for radar but can’t issue a takeoff clearance as arriving traffic is now close to 2 miles from touchdown on the parallel. Furthermore, once you finally get airborne radar cannot give you expeditious turns until you climb out of very conservative altitudes dependant on the runway in use.
So what are the changes?
For the past few months we’ve been training hard to introduce early turns on departure at 1000’ but more importantly tactical turning missed approaches that will allow the tower to operate in a considerably more efficient independent runway mode. Both these two procedures are different though so I’ll explain them both in turn, however one thing remains constant at all times, from March 10th, all departures must remain on tower frequency until instructed to contact radar, without exception.
Omni directional departures
Tower may, following co-ordination with radar, issue departures with an instruction to turn onto a heading between 090-160 degrees off 12 L/R passing 1000’ and not before the upwind end of the departure runway, and heading 270–350 degrees off 30 R/L with the same above restrictions. It is most likely though that this early turn instruction shall come from the departures radar controller once tower has transferred you and you have reported your passing altitude (verified at above 1000’ on our radar screens).
Missed approach departure turning area
To facilitate independent departure operations and ensure seperation from any missed approaches from the parallel, the tower now have a section of airspace they can turn both the missed approach and the departures at low level to create the minimum ICAO/GCAA acceptable 30degree track seperation. In 12 ops , a missed approach off 12L can now be turned at 600’ onto a ‘track’ of between 090 and 120 and a departure off 12R can be turned at 800’ onto a ‘track’ of 120 and 150. In 30 ops, a missed approach off 30L can be turned at 800’ onto a ‘track’ of between 270 and 300 and a departure off 30R can be turned at 600’ onto a ‘track’ of 330 and 300. The key things being that it’s a track being flown not a heading here and that the level of turn is low but approved by the regulator for terrain clearance, hence the critical need for a track to be flown, also tower will not issue these turns prior to the missed approach crossing the landing runway threshold.
I hope from reading the above you can appreciate the critical need to remain on tower frequency at all times until instructed otherwise. Further, if tower does turn you onto a track then be aware that this is to be carried out immediately as it's to ensure seperation from other traffic, and will result in an earlier transfer to radar.
Also as Dubai is surrounded by a class D control zone we only have to provide traffic info to IFR vs VFR and vice versa, so early turn for seperation from IFR traffic may also get a ‘significant’ RT transmission in respect of VFR traffic, that said we’ll be restricting the levels at which the VFR operate and timing the turn of the IFR traffic to ensure that there should never be a chance of traffic getting too close and the increased RT will hopefully be the only headache.
As nothing in life is ever simple…..On 30 ops providing we have VMC we can operate independent departures 24/7, however on 12 ops the the full length (K1, K2, M4 and M5) take off points of 12R are too close to the touchdown point of 12L for ICAO/GCAA to permit independent operations. So if met conditions force us to operate in 12 mode we shall be expecting you to help us out and depart from the intersections K3,4,5 or M7, thereby ensuring we can remain efficient and continue idependant operations. If your performance does require full length 12R then you must advise GMP on first contact so the tower can plan ahead, be advised though that this request may incur a delay for your flight as it will be treated as an ‘arrival dependant’ departure. We understand that certain destination flights, especially in the summer, will have no choice but to request 12R full length, but please tell us in advance.
If you’ve read this far then congratulations, we hope you’ll agree the above new procedures will offer you a more expeditious, orderly and equally safe service and thanks in advance for helping to make them work.
If you have any questions by all means post them on here. DXB ATC operations would appreciate any feedback on the new procedures and you can do that by emailing us at the following address:-
atc-operations(at)dubaiairnav.gov.ae (substitute (at) for @) as it's not always displaying correctly below.
[email protected]
All the best Yellow Snow.
As a bit of background you guys often pick up delays at the holding point on departure as the tower controller is severely restricted in when they can issue a takeoff clearance in relation to the arriving traffic on the parallel runway. Dubai’s offset parallel runways are too close together for ICAO/GCAA approval to operate departures and arrivals independently. As such, in standard dual operations (dependant mode) the tower has to have the departure rolling by the time the inbound on the parallel runway is at 2 DME to ensure the departure passes the upwind end of the staggered parallel runway before the arrival crosses the threshold of the landing runway, to ensure separation in the event of a go around, eg departure 12R has to be passing abeam M13B airborne or rolling before arrival crosses threshold 12L or the controller is relieved of duty as a technical loss of runway separation has occurred. This results in huge inefficiencies on departure when tower marshalls aircraft at holding points to get north/south SID splits for radar but can’t issue a takeoff clearance as arriving traffic is now close to 2 miles from touchdown on the parallel. Furthermore, once you finally get airborne radar cannot give you expeditious turns until you climb out of very conservative altitudes dependant on the runway in use.
So what are the changes?
For the past few months we’ve been training hard to introduce early turns on departure at 1000’ but more importantly tactical turning missed approaches that will allow the tower to operate in a considerably more efficient independent runway mode. Both these two procedures are different though so I’ll explain them both in turn, however one thing remains constant at all times, from March 10th, all departures must remain on tower frequency until instructed to contact radar, without exception.
Omni directional departures
Tower may, following co-ordination with radar, issue departures with an instruction to turn onto a heading between 090-160 degrees off 12 L/R passing 1000’ and not before the upwind end of the departure runway, and heading 270–350 degrees off 30 R/L with the same above restrictions. It is most likely though that this early turn instruction shall come from the departures radar controller once tower has transferred you and you have reported your passing altitude (verified at above 1000’ on our radar screens).
Missed approach departure turning area
To facilitate independent departure operations and ensure seperation from any missed approaches from the parallel, the tower now have a section of airspace they can turn both the missed approach and the departures at low level to create the minimum ICAO/GCAA acceptable 30degree track seperation. In 12 ops , a missed approach off 12L can now be turned at 600’ onto a ‘track’ of between 090 and 120 and a departure off 12R can be turned at 800’ onto a ‘track’ of 120 and 150. In 30 ops, a missed approach off 30L can be turned at 800’ onto a ‘track’ of between 270 and 300 and a departure off 30R can be turned at 600’ onto a ‘track’ of 330 and 300. The key things being that it’s a track being flown not a heading here and that the level of turn is low but approved by the regulator for terrain clearance, hence the critical need for a track to be flown, also tower will not issue these turns prior to the missed approach crossing the landing runway threshold.
I hope from reading the above you can appreciate the critical need to remain on tower frequency at all times until instructed otherwise. Further, if tower does turn you onto a track then be aware that this is to be carried out immediately as it's to ensure seperation from other traffic, and will result in an earlier transfer to radar.
Also as Dubai is surrounded by a class D control zone we only have to provide traffic info to IFR vs VFR and vice versa, so early turn for seperation from IFR traffic may also get a ‘significant’ RT transmission in respect of VFR traffic, that said we’ll be restricting the levels at which the VFR operate and timing the turn of the IFR traffic to ensure that there should never be a chance of traffic getting too close and the increased RT will hopefully be the only headache.
As nothing in life is ever simple…..On 30 ops providing we have VMC we can operate independent departures 24/7, however on 12 ops the the full length (K1, K2, M4 and M5) take off points of 12R are too close to the touchdown point of 12L for ICAO/GCAA to permit independent operations. So if met conditions force us to operate in 12 mode we shall be expecting you to help us out and depart from the intersections K3,4,5 or M7, thereby ensuring we can remain efficient and continue idependant operations. If your performance does require full length 12R then you must advise GMP on first contact so the tower can plan ahead, be advised though that this request may incur a delay for your flight as it will be treated as an ‘arrival dependant’ departure. We understand that certain destination flights, especially in the summer, will have no choice but to request 12R full length, but please tell us in advance.
If you’ve read this far then congratulations, we hope you’ll agree the above new procedures will offer you a more expeditious, orderly and equally safe service and thanks in advance for helping to make them work.
If you have any questions by all means post them on here. DXB ATC operations would appreciate any feedback on the new procedures and you can do that by emailing us at the following address:-
atc-operations(at)dubaiairnav.gov.ae (substitute (at) for @) as it's not always displaying correctly below.
[email protected]
All the best Yellow Snow.
Last edited by Yellow Snow; 7th Mar 2011 at 14:15.
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Kamel thanks for the feedback.
glf - yep it's 24/7. and yep, increased capacity on departures due to greater efficiency mentioned and plans at an advanced stage to allow us to reduce spacing on final approach from the current standard 5 miles to 3 miles or vortex whichever is greater (subject GCAA approval), we're aware the runway exits aren't best positioned for mediums 3 miles apart but we'll see how things go.
glf - yep it's 24/7. and yep, increased capacity on departures due to greater efficiency mentioned and plans at an advanced stage to allow us to reduce spacing on final approach from the current standard 5 miles to 3 miles or vortex whichever is greater (subject GCAA approval), we're aware the runway exits aren't best positioned for mediums 3 miles apart but we'll see how things go.
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well done 
...
let's hope it works the way in real life as well....
the only thing i would love to see, is to improve the long taxiing after landing on RWY 12L.
Ek hasn't crossed 12R without clearance... It was FlyDubai... Why are we being penalized with the additional fuel burning?
Keep it up gents... You are doing a gr8 job.
THANKS FOR KEEPING US SAFE
...let's hope it works the way in real life as well....
the only thing i would love to see, is to improve the long taxiing after landing on RWY 12L.
Ek hasn't crossed 12R without clearance... It was FlyDubai... Why are we being penalized with the additional fuel burning?
Keep it up gents... You are doing a gr8 job.
THANKS FOR KEEPING US SAFE
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...and the others who have all crossed lit stopbars aswell at M10 and elsewhere around the airfield. It isn't just one operator who made the mistakes you are now all paying for, there is a fairly decent size list of them.
Stay safe!
Stay safe!
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Yellow Snow,
Thanks for taking the time to keep us informed of the changes. This is clearly a step in the right direction. It may not always appear so but most of us appreciate the work that you guys do for us.
Yardman
Thanks for taking the time to keep us informed of the changes. This is clearly a step in the right direction. It may not always appear so but most of us appreciate the work that you guys do for us.
Yardman
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ldg 30L, parking Jet Aviation
Re the taxi situation, if we in our puddle jumper are landing 30L, and as usually the case drop at Jet/Execujet, why must we clear left, and do the 20 min taxi ride, rather than the first right, and then cross...or is it to do with the incursions.
Several moons ago, this was the norm, but to be honest with the amount of hard surface,and so many yellow, and red stop bars, it was always confusing, but at lease it was safe, and speedy. I have never crossed a RED Stop Bar, but followed wrong yellows.........
Perhaps someone with the technology can post the ground chart in the facility of M10.
Is DXB a mandated taxi with tpr on airport as yet.
Hope to be back in town next week, to test the theory....
glf
Several moons ago, this was the norm, but to be honest with the amount of hard surface,and so many yellow, and red stop bars, it was always confusing, but at lease it was safe, and speedy. I have never crossed a RED Stop Bar, but followed wrong yellows.........
Perhaps someone with the technology can post the ground chart in the facility of M10.
Is DXB a mandated taxi with tpr on airport as yet.
Hope to be back in town next week, to test the theory....
glf
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what extra capacity will this generate, and is it good for night ops also....
Once everyone gets used to things, the potential is there to start tightening up the arrival sequence, as there will no longer be a requirement to provide gaps for departures. HOWEVER, this will be a complete waste of time if everyone keeps completely disregarding speed control instructions to fly what they like! A tight sequence can only be done if the speeds are flown. WE DO NOT HAVE THE DISPENSATION TO FORGET ABOUT VORTEX WAKE SEPARATION INSIDE 4NM THAT HEATHROW ET AL HAVE! That means that if you ignore the speeds and sep is going to be lost, YOU WILL BE SENT AROUND. It is either that or the radar guy is suspended / fired! PLease play the game gents and we'll be able to start making progress.
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Hi all,
Firstly, thanks to the mods for making this a sticky. And thanks to other posters for positive feedback.
Secondly, ladies and gents at the sharp end, we in ATC understand your pain about elongated taxi routes, and yes glf all traffic landing 30L must vacate left off the runway regardless because of too many runway incursions, and yes landing 12L and then taxing to M13B is a pain but it's all in response to a few extremely serious/close runway incursions where flightcrew crossed red stop bars and taxied onto the departing runway into the path of rolling aircraft without any clearance, it wouldn't be fair or right to say anymore than that on a public forum. Unfortunately we are allowed very little flexibility in regards to taxi routes for inbound aircraft, much to ours and your frustration.
Can you help us and each other?
Yes, please do not cross red stop bars, challenge us on the RT, and refuse to move unless we switch it off, bear in mind though that if you are slow on the line up as EK 777 and 380's are for various reasons, then the stop bar will time out after 60 seconds and we will have to deactivate it again, we do try to be proactive with this. And just before there are any complaints, EK are very good at not crossing reds, but anecdotal evidence suggests that operators from other parts of the GCC and sub continent may be used to a slack approach to the reds at their base airports and as such there's a belief that it's ok to cross the red bar here at DXB.
Finally, can I ask you to maybe print off the original posting and show it to colleagues on your next trip so that we can get as much flight crew exposure to the theory of the new procedures.
Much appreciated,
Yellow Snow.
Firstly, thanks to the mods for making this a sticky. And thanks to other posters for positive feedback.
Secondly, ladies and gents at the sharp end, we in ATC understand your pain about elongated taxi routes, and yes glf all traffic landing 30L must vacate left off the runway regardless because of too many runway incursions, and yes landing 12L and then taxing to M13B is a pain but it's all in response to a few extremely serious/close runway incursions where flightcrew crossed red stop bars and taxied onto the departing runway into the path of rolling aircraft without any clearance, it wouldn't be fair or right to say anymore than that on a public forum. Unfortunately we are allowed very little flexibility in regards to taxi routes for inbound aircraft, much to ours and your frustration.
Can you help us and each other?
Yes, please do not cross red stop bars, challenge us on the RT, and refuse to move unless we switch it off, bear in mind though that if you are slow on the line up as EK 777 and 380's are for various reasons, then the stop bar will time out after 60 seconds and we will have to deactivate it again, we do try to be proactive with this. And just before there are any complaints, EK are very good at not crossing reds, but anecdotal evidence suggests that operators from other parts of the GCC and sub continent may be used to a slack approach to the reds at their base airports and as such there's a belief that it's ok to cross the red bar here at DXB.
Finally, can I ask you to maybe print off the original posting and show it to colleagues on your next trip so that we can get as much flight crew exposure to the theory of the new procedures.
Much appreciated,
Yellow Snow.
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Thank you Gulfstream Aviator.
I landed on 30L last night and did that 20 minute taxi. Since I'm not building time, and tested at proficiency for ability to taxi a G550, I found it somewhat a bother. How is it that the right turn at the high-speed is a runway incursion problem and doing the taxi drill is not?
FR
I landed on 30L last night and did that 20 minute taxi. Since I'm not building time, and tested at proficiency for ability to taxi a G550, I found it somewhat a bother. How is it that the right turn at the high-speed is a runway incursion problem and doing the taxi drill is not?
FR
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Repeat after me: I promise to stop at RED stop bars
nuff said.........
Re the taxi route, it does ensure that all post flight documentation is completed.
glf
Re the taxi route, it does ensure that all post flight documentation is completed.
glf
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When given a speed reduction how fast do you expect the A/C to reduce to that speed?
Note: 330/340 in descent can be seen to be taking a long time to slow when given a speed reduction.
Note: 330/340 in descent can be seen to be taking a long time to slow when given a speed reduction.
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Hi Yellow Snow,
Just worked the difference in figures out for a 380 departing from either K2 or K3 in winter weather. Can still get out at max weight but change from K2, which most calculate from currently, to K3 equates to a 3 degree difference in flex( assumed temperature ) for T/O. This applies equally to the ULR flights and the European departures.
I am not a performance expert, but we are informed those few degrees make quite a big difference in engine life expectancy.
Suspect you will still get requests for K2 in the morning unless there is going to be a big delay.
As others have said. Nice if we can all work together on this one!
Just worked the difference in figures out for a 380 departing from either K2 or K3 in winter weather. Can still get out at max weight but change from K2, which most calculate from currently, to K3 equates to a 3 degree difference in flex( assumed temperature ) for T/O. This applies equally to the ULR flights and the European departures.
I am not a performance expert, but we are informed those few degrees make quite a big difference in engine life expectancy.
Suspect you will still get requests for K2 in the morning unless there is going to be a big delay.
As others have said. Nice if we can all work together on this one!
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Yellow Snow, thanks very much for the info.
A quick check of our EK portal 5 minutes ago, reveals no company guidance regarding these new DXB procedures, just wondering if they have been official promulgated through the channels? Or is this more a suck it and see approach?
BTW anything would be an improvement on the clusterfu*k ATC environment here (no ones fault other that the idjit who designed the place with rwy's tooooo close together)
Lets hope it helps
A quick check of our EK portal 5 minutes ago, reveals no company guidance regarding these new DXB procedures, just wondering if they have been official promulgated through the channels? Or is this more a suck it and see approach?
BTW anything would be an improvement on the clusterfu*k ATC environment here (no ones fault other that the idjit who designed the place with rwy's tooooo close together)
Lets hope it helps
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Taxi routes and speed control
As stated before all, ATC's hands are tied with regard to taxi routes, applying common sense and giving shortened routes at times of low workload/risk simply isn't allowed for inbounds. If you're unhappy about it then complain to the airport authority, they are the only one's who can authorise the change.
Fatbus, hopefully a radar bod will come on to answer properly, but the earlier post refers to crews not flying the instructed 160 to 4 dme, some do not start to reduce to 160 for a few miles and some reduce reduce from 160 to VREF well before 4 DME destroying the sequence creating losses of wake and getting radar controllers suspended!
Cheers,
YS
Fatbus, hopefully a radar bod will come on to answer properly, but the earlier post refers to crews not flying the instructed 160 to 4 dme, some do not start to reduce to 160 for a few miles and some reduce reduce from 160 to VREF well before 4 DME destroying the sequence creating losses of wake and getting radar controllers suspended!
Cheers,
YS
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Sandblasted thanks for that info, definitely gonna be some issues with the big 'uns but we will try to stay 30 ops whenever possible....
Falcon your post made me smile. We decided to use PPRUNE for this to not only get the message out to non EK but also reinforce the crew brief's that EK have produced for you guys on this. I know they've been written would've hoped they'd been sent out by EK already, any chance one of you could nudge your flight safety department.......
Falcon your post made me smile. We decided to use PPRUNE for this to not only get the message out to non EK but also reinforce the crew brief's that EK have produced for you guys on this. I know they've been written would've hoped they'd been sent out by EK already, any chance one of you could nudge your flight safety department.......
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@Yellow Snow
Thanks for the head up. I had one query / crib. We are a 737 operator from the sub-continent and a frequent sight at DXB. During night times, there are occasions when we are #2 behind a A380. At times we have to ask for extra separation from the super as the APP tends to position us about 4-5 NM behind. Now the problem we face is that our approach speed are higher [typically 155 KIAS] than the A380 and closer to the runway we end up catching up with the wake and it is no fun at 100 feet. Could it be possible for the APP guys to keep this in mind the next time they vector us behind a Super??
Cheers
Thanks for the head up. I had one query / crib. We are a 737 operator from the sub-continent and a frequent sight at DXB. During night times, there are occasions when we are #2 behind a A380. At times we have to ask for extra separation from the super as the APP tends to position us about 4-5 NM behind. Now the problem we face is that our approach speed are higher [typically 155 KIAS] than the A380 and closer to the runway we end up catching up with the wake and it is no fun at 100 feet. Could it be possible for the APP guys to keep this in mind the next time they vector us behind a Super??
Cheers
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Notwithstanding all the above I wish all Dubai controllers could be rotated through London area control to see how it should and can work.
It seems to me we have too many here who are linked to the second best ATC in the world.
It seems to me we have too many here who are linked to the second best ATC in the world.
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I think the majority of controllers in Dubai do a BETTER job in their profession than the majority of EK pilots do in ours. Perhaps we should rotate our pilots somewhere instead? Oh we do...never mind. I agree, London is great. But then again, how far apart are the runways, how big is the airspace and they also aren't quite as "open skies" as we are...if you get my drift.
We need to get behind these controllers and support them as best we can, i.e. standard calls, give them the exact speed when & where they want it, minimise runway occupancy on line up etc.
To the controllers, there are just as many frustrated pilots, either in one of the seats or listening in on the airwaves. "Can we do 185 instead of 180", releasing the park brake only as the landing traffic passes by, the long blurb on first contact with director.
EK is one of the largest airlines in the world and TC attempts to squeeze us all into a relatively small piece of airspace at the same time. Great work given the resources you have and the straight jacket you wear. We know its not easy so thank you for the feedback on the new procedures.
We need to get behind these controllers and support them as best we can, i.e. standard calls, give them the exact speed when & where they want it, minimise runway occupancy on line up etc.
To the controllers, there are just as many frustrated pilots, either in one of the seats or listening in on the airwaves. "Can we do 185 instead of 180", releasing the park brake only as the landing traffic passes by, the long blurb on first contact with director.
EK is one of the largest airlines in the world and TC attempts to squeeze us all into a relatively small piece of airspace at the same time. Great work given the resources you have and the straight jacket you wear. We know its not easy so thank you for the feedback on the new procedures.