Lufthansa and Emirates ......
I would put levies on any goods coming form country whose salaries, social benefit and rights are susbstantially inferior from western standard.
Do you think the world can support a Western lifestyle for eveyone on Earth?
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At the end of the day you say EK pays the regular price for fuel and some including me just don' t believe it.
So we should stick with what we are paid for, flying Aircrafts and not politics!
So we should stick with what we are paid for, flying Aircrafts and not politics!
City,
But you didn't, did you? You made a statement of fact that is incorrect.
Who exactley is it that you think provides EK with cheap fuel and why?
The UAE does not produce fuel, it sells crude oil at the market price. The vast majority of this comes from Abu Dhabi, a very small amount from Dubai. Oil companies then refine it overseas and ship some of it back- why would they do this for any less than the going rate?
If EK gets cheap fuel in Dubai, why do we often tanker fuel in the other direction?
But you didn't, did you? You made a statement of fact that is incorrect.
Who exactley is it that you think provides EK with cheap fuel and why?
The UAE does not produce fuel, it sells crude oil at the market price. The vast majority of this comes from Abu Dhabi, a very small amount from Dubai. Oil companies then refine it overseas and ship some of it back- why would they do this for any less than the going rate?
If EK gets cheap fuel in Dubai, why do we often tanker fuel in the other direction?
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Bilateral Air Services Agreement (ASA) – country A sits down with country B and sets limits on what may be flown between the two. Assuming it’s not an Open Skies anything goes deal, the starting point is the size of the local market between country A and country B.
Germany is almost unique in Europe (along with Austria) in collecting true origin/destination data in its national air passenger statistics collection. So they know exactly how many EK passengers are destined for Dubai and how many are travelling onwards. Equally, they know how many passengers are travelling Germany-UAE via other transfer points.
So you can be sure that the rights available under the current bilateral pretty much reflect the true demand for Germany/UAE travel. If Emirates want the additional rights to serve markets beyond DXB, *shrug*. That’s not what’s on the table.
Germany is almost unique in Europe (along with Austria) in collecting true origin/destination data in its national air passenger statistics collection. So they know exactly how many EK passengers are destined for Dubai and how many are travelling onwards. Equally, they know how many passengers are travelling Germany-UAE via other transfer points.
So you can be sure that the rights available under the current bilateral pretty much reflect the true demand for Germany/UAE travel. If Emirates want the additional rights to serve markets beyond DXB, *shrug*. That’s not what’s on the table.
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Sorry Wizofoz you are right of course, you continue being a TRI/DEC in a shinny new jet and I 'll continue playing my FS98 in my windowless basement!
What is a Püsh Bütton???
They might do it for less than the market rate because it is all more or less Government/Family owned. My knowledge of accounting regulations is very very limited but if i see what differences we have in europe e.g. France vs. Ireland
I won' t imagine who many trickery is possible in a family runned country like the UAE or especially DXB. Who really knows who pays whos bills in DXB!
Even if the UAE need to import some refined oil I hardly doubt they import a large percantage.
What is a Püsh Bütton???
They might do it for less than the market rate because it is all more or less Government/Family owned. My knowledge of accounting regulations is very very limited but if i see what differences we have in europe e.g. France vs. Ireland
I won' t imagine who many trickery is possible in a family runned country like the UAE or especially DXB. Who really knows who pays whos bills in DXB!
Even if the UAE need to import some refined oil I hardly doubt they import a large percantage.
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Wiz... I definetely think so.
Just a matter of redistributing wealth more equally. Let's start by impeding the enrichment of managers with bonuses based just on financial performance and to get rid of Middle Age situation like UAE where a bunch of locals spend its time buying expensive cars and running around the world on private 744 while exploited labourers live on 200 dollars a month in concentration camps.
Just a matter of redistributing wealth more equally. Let's start by impeding the enrichment of managers with bonuses based just on financial performance and to get rid of Middle Age situation like UAE where a bunch of locals spend its time buying expensive cars and running around the world on private 744 while exploited labourers live on 200 dollars a month in concentration camps.
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no refineries????
The refinery in Jebel Ali, Dubai, has increased the total capacity of the UAE by about 60%. This refinery is the UAE's third refinery after Ruwais and Um al-Nar in the emirate of Abu Dhabi, which have a combined capacity of 200,000 barrels per day. The emirates of Sharjah and Fujairah also have refineries, each with a potential capacity of 80,000 barrels per day, but they have never been operational due to financial and technical problems. The refinery is operated by the Emirates National Oil Co. (ENOC) which is owned by the Dubai government.
The investment in the plant was $500 million. The plant took two and a half years to complete and covers 500,000 square metres. It involved the pouring of around 22,600 cubic metres of cement for foundations, structures and pre-cast pipe rack, as well as the installation of 15,000 tons of equipment and the laying of 223 kilometres of electric cables and 155 kilometres of instrument cables. The construction was completed on time and within budget.
The investment in the plant was $500 million. The plant took two and a half years to complete and covers 500,000 square metres. It involved the pouring of around 22,600 cubic metres of cement for foundations, structures and pre-cast pipe rack, as well as the installation of 15,000 tons of equipment and the laying of 223 kilometres of electric cables and 155 kilometres of instrument cables. The construction was completed on time and within budget.
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Forget LH and EK waving their knobs at each other.... Has anyone asked the German public? Seems to me that the answer is obvious - all flights in and out of Deutschland are usually full, ZO, the Germans seem happy enough heh
Sheik,
Thank-you for the info on UAE refining- nrews to me. It still stands that most of the oil refined and used in Dubai comes from Abu Dhabi, and they certainly wouldn't give it to EK any cheaper than market rate.
City,
Please point out where my post was insulting or de4meaning to you, and explain why you felt the need to respond like this.
I pointed out a factual error you made, why is this a trigger for personal attacks?
Who, exactley, is "They"??
Do you know what "Tax" is?
Apparently you do, or else what reason would you have for saying that EK pays market rates is a joke?
The UAE is a federation. EK is owned by the Dubai Government, which is one member state, not the seat of the Federal Government, and has precious little oil.
Thank-you for the info on UAE refining- nrews to me. It still stands that most of the oil refined and used in Dubai comes from Abu Dhabi, and they certainly wouldn't give it to EK any cheaper than market rate.
City,
Sorry Wizofoz you are right of course, you continue being a TRI/DEC in a shinny new jet and I 'll continue playing my FS98 in my windowless basement!
I pointed out a factual error you made, why is this a trigger for personal attacks?
They might do it for less than the market rate because it is all more or less Government/Family owned.
My knowledge of accounting regulations is very very limited but if i see what differences we have in europe e.g. France vs. Ireland
Who really knows who pays whos bills in DXB!
Even if the UAE need to import some refined oil I hardly doubt they import a large percantage
Wiz... I definetely think so.
Just a matter of redistributing wealth more equally. Let's start by impeding the enrichment of managers with bonuses based just on financial performance and to get rid of Middle Age situation like UAE where a bunch of locals spend its time buying expensive cars and running around the world on private 744 while exploited labourers live on 200 dollars a month in concentration camps.
Just a matter of redistributing wealth more equally. Let's start by impeding the enrichment of managers with bonuses based just on financial performance and to get rid of Middle Age situation like UAE where a bunch of locals spend its time buying expensive cars and running around the world on private 744 while exploited labourers live on 200 dollars a month in concentration camps.
may I assume you take fuel in the other direction because in flight refueling is not a viable solution?
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@WK
If we ask ze schtooopit averatsch Kraut, they vill go for the cheapest and the nice facade of an airline because zey have no clue vot's going on behind it.
Like the Lemmings worldwide they buy everything that's cheap...including poisonous chinese toys
Btw. ze LH flights are also fully booked!
My wise 78 year old mother rather spends a hundred Euro more and fly SQ or LH to visit me...flew with EK before!
Like the Lemmings worldwide they buy everything that's cheap...including poisonous chinese toys
Btw. ze LH flights are also fully booked!
My wise 78 year old mother rather spends a hundred Euro more and fly SQ or LH to visit me...flew with EK before!
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Dear Wiz..the world will change willing or not.
This rate of consumption of the planet reserves is unstainable. Global warming is a fact. Million of square meter of ice on polar caps has already melted and 2010 has had the second highest temperature average since 1880.
I believe you are from Australia... look what happen in Queensland.
The only way is to cut eccess and the only solution is social ( less disequality, more education) technological ( alternative energies and more specifically alternative fuel for aviation) and economical ( excess of freedom in markets will bring mankind to self extinction). Emergering country should start thinking of controlling demographic growth and to increases wages and and rights to boost internal consumption instead of flooding the markest with cheap products.
UAE is an absurd mix of first and third world with the highest procapita green house emission on the planet. Sorry but the solution is less billionairs around.
Rockfeller that for sure is not a socialist is spending a huge amount of his wealth along with many other capitalist to curb demographic growth in emerging countries. Does this rings a bell?
This rate of consumption of the planet reserves is unstainable. Global warming is a fact. Million of square meter of ice on polar caps has already melted and 2010 has had the second highest temperature average since 1880.
I believe you are from Australia... look what happen in Queensland.
The only way is to cut eccess and the only solution is social ( less disequality, more education) technological ( alternative energies and more specifically alternative fuel for aviation) and economical ( excess of freedom in markets will bring mankind to self extinction). Emergering country should start thinking of controlling demographic growth and to increases wages and and rights to boost internal consumption instead of flooding the markest with cheap products.
UAE is an absurd mix of first and third world with the highest procapita green house emission on the planet. Sorry but the solution is less billionairs around.
Rockfeller that for sure is not a socialist is spending a huge amount of his wealth along with many other capitalist to curb demographic growth in emerging countries. Does this rings a bell?
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I am not talking about taxes which I know quite well because I have to pay them each month.
I meant what you can hide or move to another costposition on your balance sheet.
GCAA is a gov agency airport operator, airport handling and the airlines ist government owned and you seriously say there is no advantage out of this position for EK?
I simply don' t think so!
I am out of here need to do traffic pattern in a c172 around Meigs field!
nice day to all
I meant what you can hide or move to another costposition on your balance sheet.
GCAA is a gov agency airport operator, airport handling and the airlines ist government owned and you seriously say there is no advantage out of this position for EK?
I simply don' t think so!
I am out of here need to do traffic pattern in a c172 around Meigs field!
nice day to all
Sheik,
By far the biggest component of green-house emissions comes from the rising average wealth of places like China and India.
Billionaires tend to have 747s parked in front of their mansions, with their 26 Ferraris safely locked away in the garage- the actual output of environmentally harmful substances as a result of this tiny portion of the worlds population is nothing compared to hundreds of new coal-fired electrical plants in China, or millions of Tatas in Dehli and Mumbai.
But what to do? Deny billions the chance of a better life? As you say, the world will change without any help from us! Much more sensible to come up with better alternatives (WHEN will we get real about Nuclear!!)
Global trade is pulling billions out of poverty. Philanthropists like Rockefeller and Gates aren't just giving out bowls of rice- their strategy is to improve the health and education of the poor so that they neither want nor need as many children.
Blocks to trade are blocks to the development of such people- it literally means condemning many children to poverty and early death.
Yes it's annoying that so many are so rich by dint of where they are born, but how far is your and my standard of living above the Global average for exactly the same reason?
BTW, lucid and interesting discussion- keep it up!!
By far the biggest component of green-house emissions comes from the rising average wealth of places like China and India.
Billionaires tend to have 747s parked in front of their mansions, with their 26 Ferraris safely locked away in the garage- the actual output of environmentally harmful substances as a result of this tiny portion of the worlds population is nothing compared to hundreds of new coal-fired electrical plants in China, or millions of Tatas in Dehli and Mumbai.
But what to do? Deny billions the chance of a better life? As you say, the world will change without any help from us! Much more sensible to come up with better alternatives (WHEN will we get real about Nuclear!!)
Global trade is pulling billions out of poverty. Philanthropists like Rockefeller and Gates aren't just giving out bowls of rice- their strategy is to improve the health and education of the poor so that they neither want nor need as many children.
Blocks to trade are blocks to the development of such people- it literally means condemning many children to poverty and early death.
Yes it's annoying that so many are so rich by dint of where they are born, but how far is your and my standard of living above the Global average for exactly the same reason?
BTW, lucid and interesting discussion- keep it up!!
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Must be a reason they are "ex this" and "ex that"
I don't know these guys, but I know the standards of both airlines and they are worlds apart!
LH must be doing a very good job, especially if they have such costly rewards and benefits for their employees.
I don't know these guys, but I know the standards of both airlines and they are worlds apart!
LH must be doing a very good job, especially if they have such costly rewards and benefits for their employees.
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Interesting article:
Lufthansa wants to deny Emirates slots in Berlin -paper, UAE Industries - Maktoob News
I like the way this guy is complaining that LH can only fly to one destination in Dubai..maybe he doesnt realise that Dubai isnt a country.
After all LH also fly to Abu Dhabi so thats already 2 destinations in a small country so surely that is the same as flying to 4 destinations in a bigger country like Germany.
If LH are really that fussed about the number of destinations they serve in the UAE am sure they could fly into SHJ, RAK, AAN etc... that should balance things out a bit.
As an aside am sure that EK are going to find increasing complaints from other countries as they serve more and more destinations.
Lufthansa wants to deny Emirates slots in Berlin -paper, UAE Industries - Maktoob News
I like the way this guy is complaining that LH can only fly to one destination in Dubai..maybe he doesnt realise that Dubai isnt a country.
After all LH also fly to Abu Dhabi so thats already 2 destinations in a small country so surely that is the same as flying to 4 destinations in a bigger country like Germany.
If LH are really that fussed about the number of destinations they serve in the UAE am sure they could fly into SHJ, RAK, AAN etc... that should balance things out a bit.
As an aside am sure that EK are going to find increasing complaints from other countries as they serve more and more destinations.
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I also predict there will be increasing complaints about the growth plans of the Gulf carriers.
People may wonder what is the rationale for just three carriers (two of which have never made a penny profit) coming from two countries with a combined population of just 6.5m, to place orders for a hundred billion dollars’ worth of longhaul aircraft.
Why one carrier (Qatar), with a home market of 1.5m, should presume to grow its longhaul fleet in the next five years by the equivalent of one British Airways, or one Lufthansa, or one Air France.
Why one carrier (Emirates) should presume to grow its longhaul fleet (including options) in the next five years by the equivalent - almost - of the entire US airline industry's widebody capacity.
These megalomaniacal expansion plans may be a source of pride in the Gulf region, in the rest of the world they are viewed with the deepest suspicion.
People may wonder what is the rationale for just three carriers (two of which have never made a penny profit) coming from two countries with a combined population of just 6.5m, to place orders for a hundred billion dollars’ worth of longhaul aircraft.
Why one carrier (Qatar), with a home market of 1.5m, should presume to grow its longhaul fleet in the next five years by the equivalent of one British Airways, or one Lufthansa, or one Air France.
Why one carrier (Emirates) should presume to grow its longhaul fleet (including options) in the next five years by the equivalent - almost - of the entire US airline industry's widebody capacity.
These megalomaniacal expansion plans may be a source of pride in the Gulf region, in the rest of the world they are viewed with the deepest suspicion.
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Originally Posted by schibulsky
Must be a reason they are "ex this" and "ex that"
I don't know these guys, but I know the standards of both airlines and they are worlds apart!
LH must be doing a very good job, especially if they have such costly rewards and benefits for their employees.
I don't know these guys, but I know the standards of both airlines and they are worlds apart!
LH must be doing a very good job, especially if they have such costly rewards and benefits for their employees.
And are now hanging around this forum like a child who can't let go of a toy
What IS the reason you are "ex that"??