Canada says the UAE is acting like a pompous thug says Colin Kenny
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Ahhh, I see its a virtual trading company
Now back to the golf course...
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Sorry to correct you 737 pilot but
No longer flying to Toronto also includes Aeroflot, TAP and Martinair
And Sri Lankan and Kuwait airlines are not even on the radar yet (from an ATC chap).
Don't want to be too picky but you did get the schedules wrong earlier in the thread and I can confirm at present that Emirates flies 3 times a week and Etihad 3 times a week.
It makes you wonder how "correct" some posters are in this thread when some statements even if they contain some truths have blatantly wrong "facts" in them. Arguing for the canadian aviation industry when you are getting things wrong regarding it is not the best angle to come from.
BTW I don't get what listing the carriers that fly into YYZ proves anyway. In some cases it just shows where Air Canada dosen't either serve or compete...and for the flagship carrier from its flagship hub...that is pretty p*** poor. If you pop into LHR terminal 5 (and 3) you will find British airways has flights to almost all the destinations that the other carriers at the airport serve. Air Canada dosen't yet fly to India which defies belief given the population in the GTA...AND that the argument over EK and EY involves that market (scooping!)
No longer flying to Toronto also includes Aeroflot, TAP and Martinair
And Sri Lankan and Kuwait airlines are not even on the radar yet (from an ATC chap).
Don't want to be too picky but you did get the schedules wrong earlier in the thread and I can confirm at present that Emirates flies 3 times a week and Etihad 3 times a week.
It makes you wonder how "correct" some posters are in this thread when some statements even if they contain some truths have blatantly wrong "facts" in them. Arguing for the canadian aviation industry when you are getting things wrong regarding it is not the best angle to come from.
BTW I don't get what listing the carriers that fly into YYZ proves anyway. In some cases it just shows where Air Canada dosen't either serve or compete...and for the flagship carrier from its flagship hub...that is pretty p*** poor. If you pop into LHR terminal 5 (and 3) you will find British airways has flights to almost all the destinations that the other carriers at the airport serve. Air Canada dosen't yet fly to India which defies belief given the population in the GTA...AND that the argument over EK and EY involves that market (scooping!)
Last edited by Married a Canadian; 14th Jan 2011 at 00:44.
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We should stop bitching about how many flights there are to any particular airport/region.
The main issue:
On one hand we have airlines that are competing as a private company in a global market...on the other hand state sponsored/owned airlines who dont give a fcuk about consumers choices, it's all about profit.
Who are the UAE customers anyway? They really don't have a substantial local market, they leech from global transport demand due to their geo-strategical location between the big markets.
They are the sharks in the tank, so if other airlines are asking for some protection from their government its just fair...after all its the tax paying employees that are at stake.
The leaders in the Gulf exploited their oil reserves in the past by playing the rest of the world...don't let them get away with the next scheme...
Btw. I am a fan of (fair) global trade, i am doing it right now...and the countries I import to slap a 20% import duty on my products...fair? I dont really know, but it's their countries and their choice...and it's their own people who they have to look after!!
Living in a 3rd world country shows me everyday how the multinational corporations flood the markets with bottled water, milk powder, junk food and all the "blessings of civilization"...and destroying local markets!!
Anyway it's understandable that pilots working in the UAE support their masters: dont bite the hands...
just my two rupia ...now I really have to hurry to make my tee time...
The main issue:
On one hand we have airlines that are competing as a private company in a global market...on the other hand state sponsored/owned airlines who dont give a fcuk about consumers choices, it's all about profit.
Who are the UAE customers anyway? They really don't have a substantial local market, they leech from global transport demand due to their geo-strategical location between the big markets.
They are the sharks in the tank, so if other airlines are asking for some protection from their government its just fair...after all its the tax paying employees that are at stake.
The leaders in the Gulf exploited their oil reserves in the past by playing the rest of the world...don't let them get away with the next scheme...
Btw. I am a fan of (fair) global trade, i am doing it right now...and the countries I import to slap a 20% import duty on my products...fair? I dont really know, but it's their countries and their choice...and it's their own people who they have to look after!!
Living in a 3rd world country shows me everyday how the multinational corporations flood the markets with bottled water, milk powder, junk food and all the "blessings of civilization"...and destroying local markets!!
Anyway it's understandable that pilots working in the UAE support their masters: dont bite the hands...
just my two rupia ...now I really have to hurry to make my tee time...
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Air Can used to fly to delhi, but it wasnt profitable. I mean, who's gonna travel on Air Can when you can get great service on jet airways? Who the hell is kenny colin anyways? Some newfie from Dildo? Kissin' the puffins arse too many times fries your brain!
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Living in a 3rd world country shows me everyday how the multinational corporations flood the markets with bottled water, milk powder, junk food and all the "blessings of civilization"...and destroying local markets!!
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It is interesting that a commercial agreement was reached with Qatar ISO the UAE so one has to ask "What is in that agreement" and why could the UAE not have done the same. However, there are bigger forces at play here that we will no doubt never know anything about.
My answer to above question is that the pitiful “mine is bigger” contest between the two archaic tribes is starting to bite back. The tit for tat with Canada clearly hurts EK more than EY, who would be struggling to increase its service rapidly due to poor management. EK could and would put even more distance between the two companies if allowed, therefore the AUH influenced government decided to play dumbball and by that stall expansion to Canada. Simply imagine if the UAE airlines cooperated how they could make an impact into the NA and Europe! But having their old foe being forced to kiss their dirty feet, due to the crisis, was too much of a pleasure for some, and now they want them bent over for good. Better to have EK suffer than EY profitable. Look for example at the housing market. AUH is some X0000 units short and people shuttle from cheaper DXB which will shortly be some X0000 units oversupplied. Instead of cooperating and leveling, which would be good for the entire nation’s economy, AUH is planning to build X0000 units as fast as possible to recover the fugitives. Remember the knee jerk restriction for EY pilots not to get allowance if living outside AUH?
Canada realized this tribal tragicomedy quite easily and plays along to protect its own tragicomedy named AC. Divide and conquer at its lowest from all three sides. I don’t blame Canada, as the display of the UAE is simply pitiful. But allow me to put Canada’s argumentation and behavior at almost the same low. I would hope for a more professional appearance from the UAE. I think it was mentioned before, TC and MF would have been more diplomatic and pragmatic if they were in charge. They know about Al Baker just waiting in the nicely subsidized shadow to profit from the UAE mudslinging. But having the southern clowns mingling the matter, the pathetic cold war through the greedy and primitive press will continue for some time.
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Pool you may be on to something. I know that the UAE rejected Canada's offer for 3 times weekly to YVR and YYC and outrightly said no to letting them pick up pax in Canada and continue into other destinations (6th freedom).
Seems it might have been a good idea to accept the compromise and work for more flights going forward.
Why would the UAE refuse a negotiation? Or is it that they take the rather typical tack from this part of the word and expect to get what they want with no conditions?
Seems it might have been a good idea to accept the compromise and work for more flights going forward.
Why would the UAE refuse a negotiation? Or is it that they take the rather typical tack from this part of the word and expect to get what they want with no conditions?
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I admire democracies & patriotism...so let the Canadian consumer decide where they want to spend their dime. Its completely in the spirit of freedom of choice for them to pick their beloved Air Canada over the competition -oh wait, maybe the Canadian consumer wont pick Air Canada because of its tired product & service.
And why is the product outdated and lethargic? Simple' because they will never innovate if they know they are protected - because they dont have to attract customers with their product, the government will deliver the customers through policy...and for that the demise of a once competitive and admired airline will continue.
And that my friends is sad
f.
And why is the product outdated and lethargic? Simple' because they will never innovate if they know they are protected - because they dont have to attract customers with their product, the government will deliver the customers through policy...and for that the demise of a once competitive and admired airline will continue.
And that my friends is sad
f.
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Pop
Your immaturity is an embarrassment to our community.
Although it would have been nice for us to get more flights to Canada and western Canada, most of the people here agree that the UAE handled this badly and it was us that cocked this up. Patience is a virtue and that combined with some classy diplomacy is all that would have been needed. The timing was wrong. Things are picking up, another 12 months and the results would be different, but I would be surprised if now anything will fall toward UAE. Instead now Qatar and Turkish are picking up slots now. And your submission that the UAE was doing Canada a favor by allowing it to stage its military here is equally embarrassing. We are all living on the same planet and we must all do our part to fight those that work to harm us. Protecting Air Canada only? Totally ridiculous. As we all know Canada is the epitome of social fairness. As we already know, there was a meeting with the UAE to meet halfway on new landing slots, but it was not enough. Its not just about Air Canada.
So lets put this to bed now and try to rebuild the bridges and maybe in a year or so we can get a couple landing slots to Vancouver and Calgary. Maybe the UAE can buy some trains from Bombarier or whatever, but there are things that can be done if we want it enough.
This debate would be much better with your absence since you contribute nothing but idiotic immature manure.
Your immaturity is an embarrassment to our community.
Although it would have been nice for us to get more flights to Canada and western Canada, most of the people here agree that the UAE handled this badly and it was us that cocked this up. Patience is a virtue and that combined with some classy diplomacy is all that would have been needed. The timing was wrong. Things are picking up, another 12 months and the results would be different, but I would be surprised if now anything will fall toward UAE. Instead now Qatar and Turkish are picking up slots now. And your submission that the UAE was doing Canada a favor by allowing it to stage its military here is equally embarrassing. We are all living on the same planet and we must all do our part to fight those that work to harm us. Protecting Air Canada only? Totally ridiculous. As we all know Canada is the epitome of social fairness. As we already know, there was a meeting with the UAE to meet halfway on new landing slots, but it was not enough. Its not just about Air Canada.
So lets put this to bed now and try to rebuild the bridges and maybe in a year or so we can get a couple landing slots to Vancouver and Calgary. Maybe the UAE can buy some trains from Bombarier or whatever, but there are things that can be done if we want it enough.
This debate would be much better with your absence since you contribute nothing but idiotic immature manure.
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Fair comments guys, I apologise to those that think I have been immature and spreading manure??
The fact is, that my opinion (which apparently I am entitled to so long as its the same as everyone else!) went against the flow, and for that I was confronted with much rudeness and vitriol! Not being a shy retiring type as I'm sure you are now aware I tend to fight fire with fire.... sometimes this can come across much stronger than most (English is my first language after all) for which I am sorry. There it is folks, I have been man enough to apologise, its a shame Outlaw, 737 and others aren't quite as honourable!
What I will not apologise for though is my stance. My position has not changed because NO-ONE, not one of you has come up with an ounce of sensible argument and just continue on with this inane flag waving exercise.
3 Stones, when EXACTLY did Canada invite the UAE to discuss extra landing rights? You seem to be very knowledgable on the subject, so please provide a link with evidence. I doubt very much that this ever happened and you well know it. The original agreement was formulated a decade ago granting 6 slots a week. Are you trying to tell us that demand wouldn't have increased during that time? In fact the UAE had been trying very hard since end 2006 to negotiate with Canada on the subject but was stone walled at every opportunity, so you are trying to convince us that all of a sudden Canada said, 'oh alright then, lets meet half way' and the UAE suddenly decided to run away from the table? Get real my friend!
May I suggest you all take the time to read the links posted by Contacted earlier in this thread, they sum up my stance on the issue and I didn't even write them! Imagine that, reputable sources and institutions IN CANADA agreeing with infidel Oblaaspop
Now instead of jumping down my throat because I happen to disagree with you and use a sharp tongue in the process, why don't you have a go at flaming those intellectual reports...... Who knows, if you do a good job (and that doesn't include patriotic flag waving), you may even change my mind
Incidentally, at risk of repeating myself for the 900th time, I DO think the UAE has acted poorly over this, just as I believe Canada has responded poorly...... That was for those of you that cant be bothered to trawl back through the posts, but if you do, you will see that it was written way before the vitriol started.
Now can we have a sensible debate?
The fact is, that my opinion (which apparently I am entitled to so long as its the same as everyone else!) went against the flow, and for that I was confronted with much rudeness and vitriol! Not being a shy retiring type as I'm sure you are now aware I tend to fight fire with fire.... sometimes this can come across much stronger than most (English is my first language after all) for which I am sorry. There it is folks, I have been man enough to apologise, its a shame Outlaw, 737 and others aren't quite as honourable!
What I will not apologise for though is my stance. My position has not changed because NO-ONE, not one of you has come up with an ounce of sensible argument and just continue on with this inane flag waving exercise.
3 Stones, when EXACTLY did Canada invite the UAE to discuss extra landing rights? You seem to be very knowledgable on the subject, so please provide a link with evidence. I doubt very much that this ever happened and you well know it. The original agreement was formulated a decade ago granting 6 slots a week. Are you trying to tell us that demand wouldn't have increased during that time? In fact the UAE had been trying very hard since end 2006 to negotiate with Canada on the subject but was stone walled at every opportunity, so you are trying to convince us that all of a sudden Canada said, 'oh alright then, lets meet half way' and the UAE suddenly decided to run away from the table? Get real my friend!
May I suggest you all take the time to read the links posted by Contacted earlier in this thread, they sum up my stance on the issue and I didn't even write them! Imagine that, reputable sources and institutions IN CANADA agreeing with infidel Oblaaspop
Now instead of jumping down my throat because I happen to disagree with you and use a sharp tongue in the process, why don't you have a go at flaming those intellectual reports...... Who knows, if you do a good job (and that doesn't include patriotic flag waving), you may even change my mind
Incidentally, at risk of repeating myself for the 900th time, I DO think the UAE has acted poorly over this, just as I believe Canada has responded poorly...... That was for those of you that cant be bothered to trawl back through the posts, but if you do, you will see that it was written way before the vitriol started.
Now can we have a sensible debate?
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What he gives he takes away.
Oblaaspop, you posted this on another thread last week:
Is this really true? You will confirm that you do no office work or any duties other than your line flying? Maybe in the tech office or CRM or...recruitment?
Oblaaspop, you posted this on another thread last week:
...(and no I'm not 'management', just a regular line shag!)
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You are right, I am all of those things!! I'm also TC's love child and am considering having an affair with AS.
It doesn't seem to matter what I say or do, I'm in the wrong.......
Now can we move on??
It doesn't seem to matter what I say or do, I'm in the wrong.......
Now can we move on??
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And how many of those multinationals are from the Middle east? Or are they from more "western" countries?
This goes of course also for the big players like Nestle and all the other giants eliminating fair trade worldwide...with the help of their gouvernments.
i.E. US subsidized corn or EU subsidized sugar is offered in Africa below local market prices and is ruining the farmers...
Again, I am not against globalization in general (can't do anything about it anyway) but the present situation is screwing too many people worldwide!
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Watertheflowers
Standards Captains, TRE's, TRI's LTC's, CRMI's, SFI's, Recruitment........
Non of the above is management. Never has been. They are either training positions or recruitment. Please don't be that ignorant.
Harry
Standards Captains, TRE's, TRI's LTC's, CRMI's, SFI's, Recruitment........
Non of the above is management. Never has been. They are either training positions or recruitment. Please don't be that ignorant.
Harry
Are but Harry, it's all about context you see (I don't know what that means but WTF said it).
If you are a DEC or do anything other than fly the line (and whine about it) you somehow have a vested interest, you opinion is unworthy, and you are fair game to insult, "Outing" etc, while even the most illogical, inveterate whinger such as Sheiky is to be left alone and respected.
Water-the-flowers is the self-appointed conscience of all things EK on this forum- and I don't mean that figuratively, I asked him directly if that's what he was and he said yes- and as such decides who is and isn't allowed to comment.
I don't necessarlly agree with Obs ideas or style of posting here, but even if he does work in recruitement (and he must do-WTF said so and he is ALL knowing) how does that invalidate anything he says? It's not like he gets paid per application!!
If you are a DEC or do anything other than fly the line (and whine about it) you somehow have a vested interest, you opinion is unworthy, and you are fair game to insult, "Outing" etc, while even the most illogical, inveterate whinger such as Sheiky is to be left alone and respected.
Water-the-flowers is the self-appointed conscience of all things EK on this forum- and I don't mean that figuratively, I asked him directly if that's what he was and he said yes- and as such decides who is and isn't allowed to comment.
I don't necessarlly agree with Obs ideas or style of posting here, but even if he does work in recruitement (and he must do-WTF said so and he is ALL knowing) how does that invalidate anything he says? It's not like he gets paid per application!!
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Dear Harry
If I had been using my own words instead of a quote within a quote I would have used the favoured company term of 'Appointment Holder' in the place of 'management'. Oblasspop, Wizofoz, and you too Harry, are Appointment Holders. Is an Appointment Holder 'just a line shag'? I don't think so.
With just a bit of mild coercion I have persuaded Wizofoz to add his recent career highlights to his PPRuNe user name which goes a way towards qualifying the mostly positive messages that he sends out to the community. Maybe Oblasspop, and you as well Harry, should do the same? I could do it for you if you like. I wrote Wizofozs for him. PM me.
There's nothing wrong with positive posts, there are much worse places to be than EK, it depends where you are coming from and that applies to both posters and readers.
Context - the set of circumstances that surround a situation.
wtf
If I had been using my own words instead of a quote within a quote I would have used the favoured company term of 'Appointment Holder' in the place of 'management'. Oblasspop, Wizofoz, and you too Harry, are Appointment Holders. Is an Appointment Holder 'just a line shag'? I don't think so.
With just a bit of mild coercion I have persuaded Wizofoz to add his recent career highlights to his PPRuNe user name which goes a way towards qualifying the mostly positive messages that he sends out to the community. Maybe Oblasspop, and you as well Harry, should do the same? I could do it for you if you like. I wrote Wizofozs for him. PM me.
There's nothing wrong with positive posts, there are much worse places to be than EK, it depends where you are coming from and that applies to both posters and readers.
Context - the set of circumstances that surround a situation.
wtf
And why exactley shouldn't Sheikmyarse, Nolimitholdem, LHR rain and the rest be held to the same standard, WTF? Do you bombard them with PMs, try and find out who they are and reveal it, or haunt every post they make, until they reveal their exact circumstances?
Why exactley is context a one-way street?
Why exactley is context a one-way street?
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watertheflowers
Is an appointment holder just a 'line shag'? No he isn't, I agree. But neither is he management.
It was 'implied' in your post that because someone does training or recruitment, they are not regular line shags and thus, by conclusion, part of the management structure.
If that was not the intent of your post, then I apologise for reading it as such.
Harry
Is an appointment holder just a 'line shag'? No he isn't, I agree. But neither is he management.
It was 'implied' in your post that because someone does training or recruitment, they are not regular line shags and thus, by conclusion, part of the management structure.
If that was not the intent of your post, then I apologise for reading it as such.
Harry