captainsmiffy

Quote 'Good luck with your "Bagging Cabin Crew"- I see your respect for Women is on par with your respect for fellow pilots who have the audacity to not be as miserable as you....' Unquote

You assume then, that he does mean women?! He never actually said so. You never know in these enlightened times.....

Oblaaspop

Fair enough Sheiky, please prove me wrong and tell us all why you feel you were wronged for no justifiable reason by the company and then perhaps we will understand your bitterness..... until such a point though, sadly it just sounds like a baseless rant which doesn't help man nor beast!

If you no longer work here (which I suspect), then what have you got to lose?

EK2EYengineer

I had the privilege of touching with my hands the real nature of this organization.
Arrogant, mercyless, unsensitive, unaccountable.
Beware of what you say, write, keep you opinions for your self, don't trust anybody, humble and waive and you'll be fine?

Sheiky is 200% correct and i agree with every single word of his post this is the culture of this company they only want slaves and as he says "If I'll come out with hard facts on the consequences that I endured for leaving a stable job home to join Ek you will understand why I'm so bitter." i went thru the same sh**.

moggiee

abc1 - pompous? Clearly you'd know! Much easier for you to chuck insults around than to deal with facts. Still, you enjoy telling everyone how it "really" is and those who have access to facts will continue to ignore you.

Willie isn't the most popular man in the world but he is generally accepted as being the necessary medicine (well, recognised as such by everyone apart from the CC and Unite).

BYMONEK

abc1

Why do you insist on embarrassing yourself on a public forum, discussing a subject you know very little about? Why not spend a day or so reading all the arguments that are submitted on the BA CC forum. A forum which discusses in great depth the very different views held between pilots and cabin crew and explains in some very well written posts why it resulted in such action and why many opposed it. You may also find it surprising to see that the opinions amongst the cabin crew themselves are somewhat divided. It didn't need the pilots to 'conquer and divide'.

Before you fire off another personal insult to disguise your ignorance, please allow me to justify my reply. I have several immediate family members employed in BA so I guess I can speak from direct experience of this whole sorry affair. One has been a pilot there for well over 20 years and the other is cabin crew with 15 years of seniority. Both disagreed with strike action. Both realised that a change in T&C's were needed if the airline was to face challenges that were not present 10 years ago. The only people who didn't see this was UNITE, a self serving body of highly paid, left wing individuals who's main goal was to obtain maximum publicity and ensure that their big salaries would continue well into retirement.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against unions, far from it. I am also not opposed to those that have the balls to stand up for what is right. However, what I am opposed to are those unions that seek to destroy tens of thousands of livelihoods simply by being bloody minded. BALPA realised many years ago that change was neccessary. They adapted and engaged in meaningful dialogue with senior airline management. They accepted a compromise knowing full well that if the airline wasn't competitive, it would not survive. The pilots are still well paid but work under more flexible and realistic terms. UNITE, however, was and still is, an intransigent organisation that has brainwashed those either too ignorant or too greedy to see otherwise. The pay structure for the cabin crew was unrealistic and outdated. They actually had better working practices than the pilots in some cases. Perhaps if you saw the allowances some of the crew got, your opinion might change. Longhaul crew were even paid a 'hardship allowance' on certain flights due to the demanding customer profile and, therefore, supposed higher workload. I'm sorry, is that not their job? I don't think the pilots got paid extra for landing in a strong crosswind!

So, let me ask you this. If you were a Captain, with over twenty years experience, a family of four to feed, clothe and educate, a mortgage to pay and a professional job that you still enjoyed and worked bloody hard to get, would you honestly sit back and watch it disappear along with your pension? Would you seriously not offer your assistance simply because you have 'principles'?

Well, 'good on ya mate' for those principles. They will mean nothing when the airline is finished and you join your fellow cabin crew colleagues down the job centre. I'm sure they would reward your generosity by offering you the first job that became available. My only fear is how low a salary your priciples may be prepared to accept.

harry the cod

abc1

Keep away from the Fosters mate, your responses are becoming even less lucid then previous......if that's possible.

Anyway, why not take BYMONEK's advice and spend an hour or two on the appropriate forum. Would just love to see how long you last over there.

Now, where were we.............ah yes, Emirates...........

Harry

moggiee

Oh dear - you really don't know me, do you? If you did you would know that I have a reputation for being the sort of person who tackles management face-to-face rather than hiding behind a trade union. I also have a reputation for being the sort of person who takes responsibility for his own actions, too.

We call them scabs in the UK too - although it is equally fair to call them "employees who wish to exercise their right to work". Try doing a Google search for Tony Woodley and watching him on YouTube. Going by your choice of the word "scab" you sound like the sort of person who'd appreciate his 1970s style Marxism (although he does taint it slightly by being a rather well paid Red).

BYMONEK has summarised the issues at BA rather well - try taking his advice and doing some research as it may help you to keep that egg off your face.

I won't presume to have the arrogance to do a full character assessment based upon a couple of posts here (unlike yourself, of course) but it does seem that you are a rather bitter individual at present. Perhaps you dislike working at EK (assuming that you work there) and should make greater efforts to find a job elsewhere or perhaps you're just not enjoying the cricket as much as I am!

Maybe the North Koreans need some pilots - you could then be employed in a glorious workers' paradise AND avoid Aussie sporting ineptitude in one easy move!

moggiee

You keep it all in your head because, having double checked my PM "sent messages" list, I don't appear to have ever sent you a PM - abusive or otherwise.

Best you shut up now and stop making an arse of yourself. You do appear to be unable to tell which posts were made by me and which by other users. Clue: look at the BIG username on the left hand side!

Mister Geezer

For those that bemoan EK, they need to ask themselves if it is EK or the expat lifestyle and perhaps Dubai itself that they dislike? Sadly the latter is something that either clicks or doesn't after you move which is often too late! As for the company, I find it amazing that people complain about the night flights, no union representation and busy rosters etc. Those doing their homework should be well versed on the cons when joining any company.

I have seen right before my very eyes, examples of some former collegues moving to the Middle East after doing a woeful amounts of research and preparation and they suddenly can't wait to leave.

fatbus

MG you make a very good point, all to many families come here and don't do very well and that seems to make it's way into the flt deck

Mister Geezer

Issues which can be as significant as marital problems due to living abroad, homesickness and unsettled kids etc are extremely difficult to not bring to work with you. It is very easy for such issues as well as many others, to cloud ones outlook in general.

I am sure there will be some individuals who dislike EK as a company, yet perhaps enjoy Dubai as a place to live or at worst don't mind it. However I suspect that they are perhaps in the minority of those who perhaps view the glass as half empty.

Negativity breeds negativity but it spreads life wildfire in amongst a group of expats abroad.

nolimitholdem

hmmm it's all very well and good to pontificate about "doing your homework", "knowing the pros and cons before joining", etc etc blah blah blah.

Except, that theory falls down when confronted with the reality that the company you joined is not the company it is today, or will be next month or year.

What's that saying (commonly used as a disclaimer in advertisements for get-rich-quick schemes - how apropros). "Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results."

I think most guys here would be more than happy if the job just had some semblance of the conditions they joined with. Hell, they'd probably be THRILLED just to get back the productivity that is literally being stolen from our pockets.

I always like to tell new joiners, your very best day of work for Emirates is the first one. After that it's only a race downhill, backwards.

Speaking to negativity's influence on things, they say the biggest predictor of happiness is the size of the gap between one's expectations and reality. Well I for one have lowered mine as fast as I can, every single day since joining. I just can't keep up with the speed of Emirates' ability to lower the bar!

BYMONEK

Nolimitholdem

Quote, "I always like to tell new joiners your very best day of work for Emirates is the first one"

Great, there's nothing like creating a positive first impression.......and that's nothing like it! What a sad thing to tell your new fellow colleagues. You must be a ball of fun to fly with.

Before you 'pontificate' about how things have gone downhill to them, have you ever thought to ask why they came to Emirates and, perhaps more importantly, why they decided to leave their last job? Deteriating T&C's are not unique to Emirates, its a Worldwide problem.

I agree with you that the changing of productivity limits was shameful. It was a blatant way to increase productivity without a commensurate increase in costs and as a group, the pilot body made a significant impact on last years profit. Yealds had only marginally increased but productivity increases were huge. We are (generally) an intelligent bunch of guys and girls so we don't like being lied to or treated as idiots. We know the reasons for the change in productivity threshold was to reduce costs during a very uncertain and challenging time. They should have been honest and, now that we're out of it, reward our increased workload and contribution by reducing the threshold and re instating incremental pay.

Like it or lump it, we have to live with it. If the productivity issue pisses you off, just imagine how thousands of US pilots must feel knowing their pensions are worth absolutely nothing. And that's with a union!

ekpilot

BYMONEK

Well a fact is a fact. It is time to tell it as it is, period. I'm sure all these US pilots you are talking about tell it as it is. They must say it S***s in the USA. And when a new guy shows up I would not be surprised if they would say... "it's not so bad here, you could be working for EK, getting a pay cut while the company makes billions of $$$, and all of what you have heard about EK" When you talk about the facts around here some of the always happy to be happy team will come back with the "you are negative" or even better the "if you are not happy you can leave" I'm stuck here for a few more years then bye bye! I would never come to EK in 2011 unless i'm desperate.

Keep Discovering

sheikmyarse

"Human Rights Watch last year (2010) found domestic workers were abused and exploitation by construction companies across the country was “severe”.

What do you expect?

harry the cod

Sheiky

This is a forum to discuss pilot issues, not 700dhs a month labourers. This topic is about Emirates and has bugger all to do with the construction industry so let them fight their own battles.

Harry

BYMONEK

ekpilot

When you do decide to leave us, I wonder which month you'll choose to leave? 1st of June maybe?

Hope we're still making lots of profit for your final paycheck!

jetset lady

abc1,

Your posts reveal not only a complete lack of knowledge of what is currently happening within BA but also ignorance beyond belief. May I suggest that in the future, you restrict yourself to commenting on things that you do know something about.

Regards

Jetset Lady
BA Cabin Crew

(Apologies to OP for the thread drift)

Mister Geezer

The same could be said for the majority of airlines nowadays since the industry as a whole has changed significantly from our perspective as drivers. I have friends at VS and CX who have said exactly the same after reminiscing about the company they joined so many years ago.

Rather than asking 'Am I happy in the company I am in?', the question some of us could well be asking in the years ahead is 'Am I happy in the industry I am in?'.

MrMachfivepointfive

Hallelujah! Strike! Jackpot! Nail on the head! Bullseye! Wisest statement in ages.

Commercial aviation has historically been loss making since its inception in 1919 and the yields are headed South still - so are the T/Cs.

Given a chance and a time machine I would be back as a banker.