sig83

I have combed through these forums for Emirates information and what it is like in DXB, but all I read are horror stories. Being this is a forum I know its only a small percentage of people from EK who post, but does anyone like it there or is it really hell like you all make it out to be? I was offered an airbus class, but also have an opportunity at a US low cost carrier and am trying to decide between the two. Any insight is appreciated and Merry Christmas

White Knight

Yep - horror stories abound! Yep - rosters are cr@p Yep - it's damn hot in the summer;

But, after 8 years at EK I still enjoy the flying. Great people to fly with from many different places. Good variety (ok - India 6 times a month at night is bl00dy hard work), all the new kit, yep - shiny aeroplanes (makes a change from 30 year old Barons)etc...

As for family life - my wife and kids are more than happy! If you come here 'eyes wired shut' then you'll struggle Homework is a simple thing! Seems to me like many don't do it...

I could also tell you that many, many guys and girls are quite cheerful here - just from chatting on the line! You will get the sad sacks like LHR Rain, SheikhmyArse and so on, but that's life... Oh yeah - where's Mensaboy when we need him LOL

I'll be accused of 'rose tinted specs' but I had that many years ago when I joined EK EYES WIDE OPEN

MumbaiRadio

not too bad out here. you work really hard for your money however family is happy .. long term mindset helps it's not a '..couple of years ..' kind of place.

sig83

Thanks for the quick reply. I am trying my best to filter through the negative posts to see if its really that bad or typical forum banter. I have a big decision to make and am trying to do as much homework as I can. Thanks!

Alconguin Crusader

Sig stay in the states, that is the best advice anyone can give. The pilots replying do not live or work in the states and probably never have so they don't know the difference. Even though the US has gone down in recent years it is still leaps and bounds better than the rest of the world and not just in pay.
In the middle east there are no rights and a contract is to protect the company from you, not you from the company. There are four items in my "contract" that the company does not honor.
There is no unions (they are outlawed for obvious reasons) so the company does whatever they want.
The flying is very tough. 90 plus hours with all kinds of bad flying. In the middle of the night and east west flying.
There is no FAA and the ATC is very bad.
If you come you will be in for a big shock of how things operate in the middle east, both with Emirates and Dubai.
I left a good airline and regret if big time. I wish I could go back but I will forever be an ex-pat and it sucks. No protection and you get screwed everytime you read your emails. Keep that in mind when you resign your senority number.
Most Americans are looking to go back. Some are not even wait to check out as captain. Think long and very hard about coming over.
The pilots defending the company are doing you a big disservice and probably are management anyway.

ManaAdaSystem

And you live in Michigan?

CEP

Alconguin Crusader


I do apologize for us mere mortals trying to keep the system together here....maybe we should import some of your local controllers to do the job properly.....ooops, I forgot, we've already tried that .....didn't work too well.....

Please be one of them...

Iver

Zing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GoreTex

I would give my left arm to work for an US carrier, even jet blue.
if you come to EK and get your upgrade after 8 years then what?
you still in the middle east, with a bit more money but thats it, the company screws you the same.
if you want to go back to the US you start at the bottom of the food chain again, but you might be too old for that then.
think twice before you come to EK or the middle east

Nuuk

Sig,

The most important question you have to answer yourself is where do you want to be in 5-8 years time? Will you miss a great or good long term opportunity to fly in the Middle East? Then what?
After a few years will you have the same opinion about being here, will you regret your move or will you be happy for ever after?
Few things to ponder choosing between civil world vs third world (Dubai is a modern cosmopolitan city with lots of malls (where you are not allowed to hold hands in public) that can offer a good outdoor lifestyle). Maybe read the Gulf News online and self educate yourself if you could be comfortable with the local way, as said previously, you really have to educate yourself on the airline, the city and the country.
If you can close your eyes on the DXB and EK dark sides on the long term you will be happy here, if it gets under your skin you will be so miserable.
Now let's say you take the EK job and enjoy a few good years. You get fed up after a few years, what will be your options out of here? Will you do the sacrifice again of starting at the bottom of a seniority list back home, go corporate, be a contract pilot?
Certainly the first few years will be enjoyable, discovering something new. When the discovery is over what's next? Shall I stay or shall I go?

Good luck!

Gillegan

Filter out the emotion but pay close attention to the specifics. While not all of the specific complaints are accurate, most are and the ones that aren't are usually "outed" pretty quickly.

There is certainly a "different" attitude to what constitutes a contract here. Scheduling and Leave are currently the big issues and I'm sorry to say, it doesn't look like the company's attitude towards either is going to change much. What you will find is that the abuse is not over 100% of the pilots. Some guys have carved out pretty good niches for themselves and are happy - the question is whether you will be one of them or fall within the other group who are being egregiously abused. Be aware that you will probably not have much power over which group you find yourself in.

Alconguin Crusader

Are guys really happy at Emirates or are they just telling themselves they are happy because they have no options? There is a lot of delusion going on and as I mentioned in an earlier post a lot of medications from the clinic are used to get to that state of "happiness."
8 days off a month for the last year and no end in sight is a sure bet for an early grave especially with the type of flying we do.
Save your marriage, your health and sanity and stay in the US. You will be glad that you did. Emirates is no long term solution.

poina

Sig,

I got no dog in this fight as I was with Saudia for 19 years, but here's my ex-pat perspective.
The only way it's worth working outside the US is MONEY. Can you put 60k in the bank after expenses and toys? I'm sure this is possible, but only as a Captain. So if u r being offered a job (as I suspect u r) as FO, how many qualified, proven, pilots are above you in the line for the left seat?
How much older will you be in the 5-10 years you remain in the lineup? Can you contribute to a company retirement plan? Will you be protected by a union agreement for salary and job security? Will you have to work like a dog (no offense meant) as the Emirates guys are now and seems obvious will continue?

My advice is to remove the rose colored glasses and work in the same country as your passport and be in a position to take advantage of the retirement numbers at all the major US airlines. Sure, the bene's are not what they once were but Emirates ain't Delta, UA, AA, SWA, etc.

a747jb

Hi Sig and to all that may be in your similar situation.

I figured i would give you an opinion from a fellow yank on the airbus fleet here at EK. First off, there are some very bad things about working for EK, but there are also some very good things. I think the honest truthful answer to your question of whether anybody is happy here at EK is that everyone here is both happy and unhappy. We love some things and hate others. The only question is which outweighs which. That is different for everyone. So, here are somethings, both bad and good that I think are important in helping you make your decision.

Bad, in a nutshell, schedules and quality of life. Especially since they offered you the airbus. That is a for sure if you come now. What will happen in the future with the 380 and the 350's coming, we all think it will improve, but like anything else, there are no guarantee's. Other things that will irk you is that you have to pay for travel here, you may or may not get your vacation time you ask for, you certainly won't get the trips you ask for near as often as you might hope, and life in Dubai can be frustrating (pay close attention to the UAE ID Card thread, it gives you an example as to how some get along well here, but most are just horribly frustrated).

Now, there are some things that are very good about EK. For starters, and for me this is huge even though it effects very few folks, EK are simply unmatched when it comes long term sick leave. I have had several friends effected by this for a wide variety of reasons and terms. None of them ever stopped getting their basic salary even though they did occasionally have to do office duties. They never worried about if their pay check would stop or if they would be fired (there may be others with different experiences that I don't know about). Secondly, you will have good job security here, of course nobody can predict the future, but for now its as safe as it gets. The third big plus in my opinion is the people you will meet and become life friends with, even after you go back home. Be it guys you fly with, your neighbor, whomever, Everyone here has a friend from virtually every continent and region of the globe. Never down play this because you never know where you might end up, and lets face it, friends and family are the most important thing to anyone, regardless of where you are from.

There are many other good things and bad things about working here. What I can tell you is in my opinion, now is a good time to stay in the US. There are literally thousands of retirements in the next 10 years. If ever there was a time to have job security in the States, the next few years will be that time, just from retirements. Nearly 65 percent or more (depending on what stats you look) of the US major and LCC pilots are over the age of 50. If you come here now, you are losing out the very thing you are probably coming here for. Again, nobody can predict the future.

Now, on a final opinion, I am going looking to leave EK for the exact reason I state above. Things are not what I had hoped for here and my schedule on the bus is so bad I can hardly see straight. Its easy to get stuck here, so just be aware of that when you come this way. Everything aside, I would not trade my last 3 years here for anything in terms of the people I have met, the friends I have made, and the experiences in flying that I have gained. That being said, I honestly think it would be tough to find a more dishonest and uncaring group of management than what you will find at EK and most middle east carriers. Think US management with absolutely nothing holding them back from changing the rules. So, its time for me to move on, and hence give you my opinions. In short, I am both happy and very unhappy. That is me. But take the facts from the first 2 paragraphs more serious than my opinions when making your decision. Good luck to you and happy holidays.

Wizofoz

747,

Nice, balanced and well thought out post. Best of luck with getting back to the US, with an attitude like yours, you will no doubt make wherever you end up work.

AC,

Just had a quick look- you made your first post bitching about EK in April 2008. Out of interest, how many other jobs have you applied for in the last 2 1/2 years?

fatbus

AC - why did you leave a good job .

sheikhmahandy

Short answer to the original question of happiness at EK is no.

Just completed a ULR, the U standing for Ultra, and all four flight deck, including a new joiner inside 6 months, are looking to leave. The cabin crew were dropping like flies with illness as well due fatigue.

It is sad the way this company has gone and the managers should be ashamed of themselves for developing the situation of the last two years. From the best to one of the worst is such a short time

There is little doubt what is coming as the rosters keep hitting the 100hr mark with the mix of time zone, back of the clock flying we have to do and lack of time off to recover, let alone have a life. Unfortunately, we are not alone as engineering, cabin crew, ground staff etc are pushed to breaking point as well.

The sooner the better for me, and that will leave yet another position for the rose coloured glasses brigade.

The swiss cheese is lining up and blind Freddie can see that, but management unfortunately cannot.

hardhit

Working for any Arab country is jumping into HELL. Personally, I have experienced that in Qatar airways the so called Five Star airline(only for Cabin crew!!!!!)

You are living in a civilised country...Come to Gulf and you will repent. These brain suckers will make your life miserable.

A better choice is Turkey. This country is everything close to european standards. Here you will get one month on and 1 week off. Not so in UAE.

Think before you leap. Best of Luck

ManaAdaSystem

SIG, some info on Mr Alconguin Crusader, just so you know what kind of gentleman he is. This may make it a bit easier to judge the advices he gives you.

A PM to me from said gentleman:

Marry Xmas to you all!

Schibulsky

Do you have any idea what the P stands for in PM??