Emirates MBA in Aviation Management

[bala_murali]

MBA in aviation management or MBA in operations

Hi there hugel

Is continuing education a waste of time ? I don't think so in any industry that is driven by procedure, licencing and knowledge.

How can a qualification be "essential for many positions" yet "a waste of time". I don't follow your train of thought at all.

In terms of accreditation there are institutions like RAeS, there are government organisations that rate universities based on staff and research output, there are employers that sponsor students that have a view, and of course there are students that have actually done it , maybe with their own money.

Ask any of the above what they think about a particular course.

hugel

• Would love to know your opinion on my post ( above XNATS post ) .
  
• From speaking to some aviation professionals ,they suggested that i do a MBA in operations than an aviation specific MBA even though my plan was to work in the aviation industry . They told an MBA in operations would be a much better choice compared to a MBA in logistics and supply chain management.i still dont understand the connection between an MBA in aviation management and MBA in Operation . How is an MBA in operations connected with the aviation industry.

Would love to know your view . THanks a million for your time for your time .

[desertopsguy]

School's out ...

Anyone who thinks that continuing education is a waste of time has quite likely never continued to educate themselves and with that notion should probably not even bother trying.

[Great Thinker]

Need Help on MSc ATM,Cranfield.

Hey frnds,

I am very much keen in making my career in aviation industry.I came across this course,and thought MSc air transport Management of cranfield can allow me to step into aviation.I am very much passionated of aviation.

I just wanted few details from you all,becoz some of you are undergoing this course and some completed.So experiences of you all can guide me better.

1-How is the course prospect after completion in terms of career growth,job profile etc

2-What remuneration can be expected from the industry in starting days of career?

3-Is assistance can be expected from the department after completion of course for placements??

***Very Imp***

Being a citizen of another country(India).So will I able to get job in aviation industry over there and work permit,to gain experience prior returning to my homeland.

[rsoman]

MBA/MSc programmes in Air Trasnport Management

Being an alumni of Cranfield ATM programme and being from India here are my inputs. Some of this may not be what some guys posting here asking for information would like to hear but then truth may not always be palatable


1 Embory and Cranfield are still the best bets or a full time programme. City is of course wll regarded but unless things have changed it is still a part time programme for working executives. Most of the others are a waste of time and money.

2 Specific to Cranfield, facilities are good faculty is okay but when I was there they seem to have the first priority for their own research than to the students. Also they hold a lot of "short courses" who also get preference of the faculty time. A very good library with good access to databases - the best part I guess of the programme.

3 Placement assistance is mediocre to say the least. If it is a boom year (and aviation is wonderfully cyclical in that regard), a few companies may come along, if it is a bad couple of years - we had 9/11 and SAARS coming in successive years - then forget it you are on your own.

4 The economics for people from my part of the world particularly if you have financed the course with Bank Loans is NOT IN YOUR FAVOR ,especially if you are a fresher. Of course many of my country men now have a lot of money to throw around - in that case it is not a bad choice - better pay that bit extra to go to Cranfield than Buckinghamshire or Inverness but again that is no guarantee you will get a job back home. There is a university in India which offers a similar programme at less than half the cost and with a much better placement record.

5 With virtually every teeny weeny country asking me to get a visa in my advance even for a casual visit thanks to my nationality you can imagine what the situation is with regard to work permit. Air Transport managers are not a scarcity occupation in UK (indeed because of the recession half the natives are going to places like SIN or Middle East where a lot of my country men find work so competition is stiff even there), but a Indian nurse who is not even a graduate will find it easier to get a work permit in UK than an Indian MSc graduate from Cranfield since nursing is a SCARCITY occupation . So except for a lucky few hardly anyone gets a work permit in UK after finishing this course

6 Indian job scenario is not bad but you mostly have to get in on your own. Waving a Cranfield qualification most times will not even get you an interview for the simple fact that most of the decision makers have not even heard of it. The department does hardly anything - most major employers hardly boast of 2-3 Cranfield alumini. Harvard boasts of an impressive alumni network, the management programme at Cranfield (The MBA school - not the Air Transport Dept) does much better but the ATM course is zero in this regard with regard to India. Most people I know who have got placement here (and it is hardly a couple of dozen) were either experienced and who got in by their OWN HARD WORK in some cases waiting for a couple of years with non existent placemeent assistance or got lucky in graduating in a boom year. The Indian course which I am speaking about has no such problems as they are aggressive in promoting their course and actively seek placement assistance for their students. Their students are everywhere from GDS to airpots to Airlines but the ATM department is still not bothered .

To sum up, unless you are well established financially (and even then think twice) or have an industry experience of a few years, it is not worth taking this course especially if you are a fresher. And bank financing for this course from India is strictly to avoid. For the same money you can put yourself through IIM (Indian Institutes of Management) and your placement chances in the aviation industry in India will be TEN TIMES more than the Cranfield ATM programme. Ofcourse there is one major difference - competition to get into an IIM is 100 times more difficult that getting into the Cranfield ATM programme. Just because you are an aviation enthusiast doesnt mean that you will die without doing a specialized aviation programme- indeed in the Indian context the smart thing to do is graduate from IIM , get a placement in a good aviaition employer anywhere not just India and after a couple of years your employer will gladly finance your course at City or Cranfield or Embory and you will be much better off than graduating from Cranfield.



Cheers

Balamurali - if I have to revert to you please turn your PM facility on.

[ramgopal]

aviation management

very nicely put r soman would like to know which indian institute are you talking about and if at all the specialisation is required as you might be knowing. seems like you are employed somewhere in aviation.so if you can tell me what position am i looking for after i do an mba in aviation management and what specialisations can i go for, that would be great.

[rsoman]

Being a Cranfield graduate it may look rather inappropriate that I give out details of a rival programme.That said I have been trying to alert the director and the faculty at Cranfield that their continued inaction is forcing people like me to advise Indian students to consider the cheaper Indian alternative seriously but other than a bunch of meaningless (alteast to me) and half hearted excuses nothing much seem to be happening,well here goes.

University of Petroleum & Energy Studies::About UPES

Cheers

[desertopsguy]

My Cranfield Experience...

I don't find any issues with Cranfield's job assistance efforts and receive regular emails regarding well known and stable companies looking to hire from Cranfield. Airbus, Raytheon, Rolls Royce just to name a small few.
There is also an alumni page on Linked-In and the course directors regularly post leads and useful information that would help any would-be jobseeker.

Not everyone wants to work in India, if that is where you want to be then by all means attend an Indian Uni but Cranfield caters for an international mix and you must have surely met people from all over the world while you there.

Another point worth considering is that alot of the people on the Cranfield MSc are already employed or have positions waiting for them. People who go from undergrad direct to MSc/MBa will not always walk into a job as they lack that vital industry experience required to transition from MSc to employment quickly. The expectation of a high entry level salary just because you have an MSc is also another expectation that is often not met.

I don't agree with your point about most other courses apart from Embrey Riddel & Cranfield being a waste of time and money. There are many others that are excellent in other countries (Enac in France and there are also ones in Geneva and Australia). If you look at Embrey Riddel course content you will find it is very USA-centric, and that is fine if you intend to work in the US.

If the nationality of the person is a barrier to the them taking up employment in a reputable company in the US/UK/EU or elsewhere, then that is nothing to do with the school. Any prospective student should consider this before taking out expensive loans to attend foreign schools.
I don't have the right to live and work in the USA or China therefore I would not go to a US or Chinese uni and then automatically expect to work there afterwards, that is just plain crazy.

And finally, Cranfield has been in aerospace and aviation education since 1946...if anyone in a decision making position has 'not even heard of it' then that is certainly not the school's fault, there are more than enough switched on people out there who have.

Good luck,

All the best.

[rsoman]

desertopsguy

First of all my post is intended for Indian students and is from an Indian experience with particular relevance to finding work in India post Cranfield. This was already I think clear enough in my earlier post but still not clear enough apparently . For a person from say EU who pay subsidized rates the course is a steal what with students from outside EU paying 4-5 times the tution and propping up the course , and the EU students to a large extent.

If you look at Embrey Riddel course content you will find it is very USA-centric, and that is fine if you intend to work in the US.

Cranfield was truly wonderful in that regard.Our first lecture itself was from the head of marketing at Ryan Air and the course was peppered with LCC wonder strategies. The only issue was that the first Indian LCC got off the ground only around the time our course ended and the next one took another two years in coming. But then the Brits are always ahead of their time - right

Another point worth considering is that a lot of the people on the Cranfield MSc are already employed or have positions waiting for them

Very true. We graduated when SAARs had just followed 9/11 and even the locals were struggling. I luckily had a position waiting - my old employer was luckily willing yo take me back - but then I thought I left them to get a better deal and a career shift It took another three years of my own effort to finally get in where I wanted .

If you look at Embrey Riddel course content you will find it is very USA-centric, and that is fine if you intend to work in the US.


Unfortunately a lot of Indian top airline managers are either graduates of the IATA MBA programme at Concordia in Canada or from Embry. Cranfield is an unknown to them. A few do the part time MSc from CiIty, so even that is better known than Cranfield.

People who go from undergrad direct to MSc/MBa will not always walk into a job as they lack that vital industry experience required to transition from MSc to employment quickly. The expectation of a high entry level salary just because you have an MSc is also another expectation that is often not met.

Totally agree and my point I wish to make is that the faculty advisors at Cranfield should make this clear to prospective graduates. Instead they come out with delightfully vague answers in many cases.

If the nationality of the person is a barrier to the them taking up employment in a reputable company in the US/UK/EU or elsewhere, then that is nothing to do with the school. Any prospective student should consider this before taking out expensive loans to attend foreign schools

Very true - but unfortunately again the faculty advisers keep quiet about this at the time of admission inquiries especially when 80% of the students who seek admission from India are freshers from India. Once people get out and start struggling then the Hmmmms and Haaaas start ..... Many Indian students including myself when we first applied thought that it will be a struggle to get in, what with the reputation of the course and the 1946 Vintage etc etc. But as my Dad (who financed my course said) "Never mind Son... don't worry ... u will get in because most UK univs needs your money....). True enough I got in without even an interview and finally I ended up where I wanted 3 years after graduation and due to my own efforts- after 3 rejections - all of them who had never heard of Cranfield -, only because I had enough experience (in a related field). But for freshers it may not always be that easy although admission is never that difficult!.

And finally, Cranfield has been in aerospace and aviation education since 1946...if anyone in a decision making position has 'not even heard of it' then that is certainly not the school's fault, there are more than enough switched on people out there who have.

Unfortunately not in India as I found out to my cost! Situation has not changed much in recent times. Mailing a brochure of the student CVs to be "HR Manager" and then saying end of the story does not help in India. Most faculty hardly keep in touch with any senior aviation managers in India as evidenced from the fact that students doing India centric thesis find it hard to establish contacts with the right people to get information.


There is also an alumni page on Linked-In and the course directors regularly post leads and useful information that would help any would-be jobseeker.

It may be of interest to know that the current course director of the full time programme hardly posts anything on this page. Most of the faculty postings are almost exclusively from one of the faculty who is a FORMER course director and who while not among the shining stars in terms of qualifications/publications/consultancies etc compared to many others in the faculty is one of the few who genuinely is interested in helping out the students (and whose idea was the linked in group). It is people like him who are the saving grace of the department .

Also let me make it known that what ever is posted here by me is well known and conveyed in writing much earlier to some of the faculty and the current head of the ATM department.


And finally let me also make it clear that a higher educational qualification will always be an asset but then for many Indians as mentioned in my earlier post there may be more cost effective alternates to achieve the same end result as a Cranfield ATM Course.

[fawazsadhr]

need help with univ

hi,, i've just completed my b.e, in aeronautical engineering, and am interested in pursuing my mba in aviation mgt,, currently i'm working up on my experience for the course. Kindly guide me, i need advice on where when and how. going thru multiple universities,, confusedddd.