EY Unstable App in MNL?
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: A332FDECK
No one knows what went through the crew's head on that day but just an advice to all....
Always prepare for a REJECT on all takeoffs - it's a 'bonus' if you get airborne and always prepare for a GO AROUND on all approaches - it's a 'bonus' if you get to land.......
Too bad if you can't accept this but many find this the best tool to keep themselves SAFE.
Always prepare for a REJECT on all takeoffs - it's a 'bonus' if you get airborne and always prepare for a GO AROUND on all approaches - it's a 'bonus' if you get to land.......
Too bad if you can't accept this but many find this the best tool to keep themselves SAFE.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: The Beach
It was also mentioned at the roadshow that less than 30% of unstable approaches resulted in GA!!
That is F##king scary
Until the real cowboys are brought to task then we all get labelled!
Enough PC/CRM/Human Factors crap do something about it EY before we bend an aeroplane!
That is F##king scary
Until the real cowboys are brought to task then we all get labelled!
Enough PC/CRM/Human Factors crap do something about it EY before we bend an aeroplane!
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From: sail boat
Hey sandyballs lets not get crazy with " Thats F***ING Scary" statement. Yes the incident was a failure by the flt deck to implement correct SOP's. But I think your comment is taken way over the top. You're probably one of the guys who does a new performance for a change of 100kgs in ZFW. Get real mate......
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From: South of the border
that less than 30% of unstable approaches resulted in GA!!
Its well documented as the the hazards of landing off an unstable approach can be (in particular engines not spooled up). Okay the scary, thing might have been a bit dramamtic, but he's got a point.
ANY company has to draw a line in the sand as to limits for stabilised criteria, and ok we've all milked it at times, and it can be a pain in the a$$, but the reality is it is unsafe to continue to land in such a condiotion.
If you don't agree, have a quick look at the habsheim 320 going into the trees in a cloud of smoke. Unusual scenario yes, but graphic example of an abort from idle thrust.
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From: Between Vedex and Murag!
Originally Posted by Dixons Cider
If you don't agree, have a quick look at the habsheim 320 going into the trees in a cloud of smoke. Unusual scenario yes, but graphic example of an abort from idle thrust.
Anyway, before these unstable approache events, we had a very clear stable/not stable policy. Ops decided to be more conservative...when does it end?
Over the illustrated period, less than 10% resulted in G/A.
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From: South of the border
I disagree.
Ok, how and why the a/c got to be low level with the engines at idle is unrelated for sure.
But from the point were he poured the power on with the intention to climb, it is exactly like a rejected landing from idle thrust scenario.
CFM did change some FADEC logic to do with spool up from idle post crash, but I think the lessons learned from that one are still valid.
Ok, how and why the a/c got to be low level with the engines at idle is unrelated for sure.
But from the point were he poured the power on with the intention to climb, it is exactly like a rejected landing from idle thrust scenario.
CFM did change some FADEC logic to do with spool up from idle post crash, but I think the lessons learned from that one are still valid.
Last edited by Dixons Cider; 12th July 2009 at 07:39.
Thread Starter
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From: The Beach
Hey Mumbo Jumbo sorry but your wrong!
Im just one of the guys who tries to stick to the SOPs and knows when to GA.... Maybe you should get real mate...
....If you feel that this kind of flying is acceptable or something to be just brushed off as one of those things....we are in trouble!
Maybe your one of those in 70% who knows better than the rest of us mere mortals and lands from unstable approaches citing the usual crap of: "Good VMC"/"Long Runway" etc etc....."ATC asked us to keep our speed up" is another good one!
Im just one of the guys who tries to stick to the SOPs and knows when to GA.... Maybe you should get real mate...
....If you feel that this kind of flying is acceptable or something to be just brushed off as one of those things....we are in trouble! Maybe your one of those in 70% who knows better than the rest of us mere mortals and lands from unstable approaches citing the usual crap of: "Good VMC"/"Long Runway" etc etc....."ATC asked us to keep our speed up" is another good one!
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: S.H.
Dixons.............
Your reference to L'Affaire Habsheim seems valid.
Source: Peter B. Ladkin (ladkin(at)rvs.uni-bielefeld.de)
Safety-Critical Mailing List Archive 2002: Re: [sc] A320 crash at Habsheim.
Your reference to L'Affaire Habsheim seems valid.
Besides, simple physics says that you cannot go up from 30 ft altitude at minimum airspeed and engines at flight idle. You are at minimum kinetic energy and have no potential energy.
Safety-Critical Mailing List Archive 2002: Re: [sc] A320 crash at Habsheim.
