EK Command upgrade and fleet transfer policy FCI 2009-046
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ekpilot
Holy smoke ekpilot. 
Not THE guy who came from AF? Saw him at work during a session. The biggest ZERO I have ever seen in training.
This just shows again that our recruitment selection is not flawless.
How he got in EK is a mystery to me.
Wouldn't surprise me if was him btw.
Not THE guy who came from AF? Saw him at work during a session. The biggest ZERO I have ever seen in training.
This just shows again that our recruitment selection is not flawless.
How he got in EK is a mystery to me.
Wouldn't surprise me if was him btw.
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Well now - I used to fly RJs and I ain't ever had to do a G/A for an unstable approach... Never had an unstable approach
Although one of my F/Os who was 20 years 310,300,747 managed to completely screw an approach with the result he was told to G/A..It's simple really - some people can fly and some try
Blue side up chaps!!!
Although one of my F/Os who was 20 years 310,300,747 managed to completely screw an approach with the result he was told to G/A..It's simple really - some people can fly and some tryBlue side up chaps!!!
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Boys (and girls...),
I've been at EK for a while and have some thoughts for especially the affected F/O's by the FCI.
First of all, I surely don't agree with the new rules! I also must say I'm not affected by all of this, since I've been in the LHS for a number of years.
Even before the new upgrade rules, I've always had the following thoughts on upgrades:
You will get the chance to do an upgrade in a company like EK, when the company is doubling its fleet. When EK had 120 aircraft when you joined, you should get your upgrade when EK has 240 A/C.
1/You might think we need more captains than fo/s, because Training Capts and management capts don't fly as much on the line as F/O's. Correct, but to me, that's balanced by the fact that we need more fo's for the 3 crew flights, e.g. PER,KIX... than capt's.
2/Next point I always hear is... what about DEC's? I suppose the number of DEC's is balanced by the number of captains resigning (or being fired, lol!)
3/ Last, one fleet has always been a little faster than the other, but that just balances itself out after time.
All of this might be a simplified view, but seems to be not far from reality! Doesn't take rocket science, if you ask me...
I struggle to understand the guys that joined 1 or 2 years ago and seriously thought they would be upgrading after 3 years...
Your thoughts please...
I've been at EK for a while and have some thoughts for especially the affected F/O's by the FCI.
First of all, I surely don't agree with the new rules! I also must say I'm not affected by all of this, since I've been in the LHS for a number of years.
Even before the new upgrade rules, I've always had the following thoughts on upgrades:
You will get the chance to do an upgrade in a company like EK, when the company is doubling its fleet. When EK had 120 aircraft when you joined, you should get your upgrade when EK has 240 A/C.
1/You might think we need more captains than fo/s, because Training Capts and management capts don't fly as much on the line as F/O's. Correct, but to me, that's balanced by the fact that we need more fo's for the 3 crew flights, e.g. PER,KIX... than capt's.
2/Next point I always hear is... what about DEC's? I suppose the number of DEC's is balanced by the number of captains resigning (or being fired, lol!)
3/ Last, one fleet has always been a little faster than the other, but that just balances itself out after time.
All of this might be a simplified view, but seems to be not far from reality! Doesn't take rocket science, if you ask me...
I struggle to understand the guys that joined 1 or 2 years ago and seriously thought they would be upgrading after 3 years...
Your thoughts please...
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I ain't ever had to do a G/A for an unstable approach
It's simple really - some people can fly and some try.
Self-appreciation award of the week to White Knight Say old chap, is it true that you have full-length mirrors in every room in the house?
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If we're talking about staff numbers to watch out for who have a history of reporting fellow f/d and cabin crew...boeing guys watch your ass around We know who he is...will eventually get what's coming to him.
Sorry, had to delete. EGGW
Sorry, had to delete. EGGW
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Sad to read indeed. EK was once a great airline and a great job, unfortunately greed and shortsightedness set in. When I left EK in 2005 I told management at my interview that if the present policies and pay levels were maintained EK would have an accident. The training department was in disarray and over stretched DECs were under qualified in some cases and moral was being erroded fast. What is happening now happened before after the Gulf Air Crash. The company shunned responsibility for its structural failings and believed that the DEC would bolster the experience level and prevent EK suffering the same fate as GA. Sadly not, the shameful Terms and conditions were failing to attract and retain the kind of experience necessary to sustain rapid growth and so the company bottom fished in order to fill seats.
Whats happening now is simply the effect of such a misguided policy. Rather than pay the cost of adequately rewarding its pilots for the fine job they do it chose the quick fix.
The company response to the latest incident is the same as before. DECs.
The effect will be the same. My advice to the young and keen is get out ASAP and build your career elsewhere. As for the old and weary all I can say is ....I told you so
I wish you all the very best and sincerely hope that EK wake up an smell the coffee
Whats happening now is simply the effect of such a misguided policy. Rather than pay the cost of adequately rewarding its pilots for the fine job they do it chose the quick fix.
The company response to the latest incident is the same as before. DECs.
The effect will be the same. My advice to the young and keen is get out ASAP and build your career elsewhere. As for the old and weary all I can say is ....I told you so
I wish you all the very best and sincerely hope that EK wake up an smell the coffee
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You aren't seriously equating Jet's situation a couple years ago with EK present-day? I know DEC's at Jet and the guys sitting next to them aren't qualified to command NOW let alone when they actually were hiring.
But hey don't let the facts or irrelevant comparisons get in the way of a good self-righteous rant!
But hey don't let the facts or irrelevant comparisons get in the way of a good self-righteous rant!
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4HP - I merely speak about what I see on line. I have to say I'm getting fed up of seeing guys UNABLE to fly a CDA... And other basic airmanship stuff
Indeed - some really try. And some have it - simple!!
As for the mirrors - I'd need damn large mirrors to see myself in! Now that's self appreciation
Indeed - some really try. And some have it - simple!!As for the mirrors - I'd need damn large mirrors to see myself in! Now that's self appreciation
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Bin Liner
You re barking up the wrong tree mate. First of all I have NEVER had a DEC I have always joined at the bottom. You make little of my words at my leaving interview but leading up to that were 6 months of bitter negotiations with various managers culminating in a resignation from training followed by my resignation from EK. At least I sat down with the then HOFO and told him he was an idiot. What have you done to change your situation?
I enjoyed EK when I was there and no one was sadder than I when I left. Forgive me a little nostalgia.
If more pilots had stood up and been counted YOU would not be in the situation in which you find yourself.
Believe me my bitter friend, you can vent your spleen here to you hearts content, you may feel better but EK will not change because you have the cahonas to say it the way it is on an anonymous forum.
I am against DECs for many reasons, EK has more than adequate experience and ability amongst the FO ranks. DECs are not necessarily better than the GUYs you know.
You have some balls calling me a hypocrite after I left on my principals when you cower before your master in adversity.
Think again little man
You re barking up the wrong tree mate. First of all I have NEVER had a DEC I have always joined at the bottom. You make little of my words at my leaving interview but leading up to that were 6 months of bitter negotiations with various managers culminating in a resignation from training followed by my resignation from EK. At least I sat down with the then HOFO and told him he was an idiot. What have you done to change your situation?
I enjoyed EK when I was there and no one was sadder than I when I left. Forgive me a little nostalgia.
If more pilots had stood up and been counted YOU would not be in the situation in which you find yourself.
Believe me my bitter friend, you can vent your spleen here to you hearts content, you may feel better but EK will not change because you have the cahonas to say it the way it is on an anonymous forum.
I am against DECs for many reasons, EK has more than adequate experience and ability amongst the FO ranks. DECs are not necessarily better than the GUYs you know.
You have some balls calling me a hypocrite after I left on my principals when you cower before your master in adversity.
Think again little man
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BA is suffering and will probably do the usual layoffs, early redundancy etc.
BA Captains will qualify for EK direct entry
BA Captains will qualify for EK direct entry
Same situation in 1977 with BA...and SQ needed Captains, PDQ.
They hired twenty of 'em.
Four left within six months, the rest were gone in the first year.
Why?
They were not used to actually working for a living, you see...and thought the journey on down to S'pore was a vacation.
They found out soon enough that the screws would be turned, big time.
A leopard does not change its spots...then or now.
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Mick is one heck of a good guy and he joined his present airline as a First Officer.
Anyone who speaks out against DECs at EK is just being logical. They are not needed at all. The only argument that can ever be made for their hiring was when the A340-300s showed up. Since then the airline could have easily gotten by without them. They certainly do not need them now, or ever again. To hire even 1 DEC today is a slap in the face to all First Officers at the company.
Typhoonpilot
Anyone who speaks out against DECs at EK is just being logical. They are not needed at all. The only argument that can ever be made for their hiring was when the A340-300s showed up. Since then the airline could have easily gotten by without them. They certainly do not need them now, or ever again. To hire even 1 DEC today is a slap in the face to all First Officers at the company.
Typhoonpilot
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Hi White Knight -
I've just had a call from the tailor: Your gold uniform with blue bars is ready.
I've just had a call from the tailor: Your gold uniform with blue bars is ready.
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Chill guys!
Its just a Job. You join as an FO. Merit/vacancy, not seniority gives command. Seniority gives access to the review board. Its not automatically guaranteed when you join. As someone already explained. If you have 5 aircraft all pilots will be captains when there are 10 shinny aircraft. If you join when there are 100 aircraft in the fleet, expect you number to be call then there are 200 aircraft. DEC have been around for at least 5 years. So, I assume they were here when you joined.
EK is a business. Basta! Its wholly owned by a guy who also happens to own a country. He doesnt need to be nice these days. When the times turn, he will give us a nice bonus and we will all wag our tails again.
Thats my honest opinion.
Its just a Job. You join as an FO. Merit/vacancy, not seniority gives command. Seniority gives access to the review board. Its not automatically guaranteed when you join. As someone already explained. If you have 5 aircraft all pilots will be captains when there are 10 shinny aircraft. If you join when there are 100 aircraft in the fleet, expect you number to be call then there are 200 aircraft. DEC have been around for at least 5 years. So, I assume they were here when you joined.
EK is a business. Basta! Its wholly owned by a guy who also happens to own a country. He doesnt need to be nice these days. When the times turn, he will give us a nice bonus and we will all wag our tails again.
Thats my honest opinion.
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It is wholly owned by a guy who also happens to own a country that is bankrupt. The airline is being bled to pay off $billions in debt and eventually Abu Dhabi will pick up the pieces... it's just a matter of time.
And it's a bit rich to ask people to chill if the terms and conditions are changed after joining however many aircraft they had. It's simply is unfair and unnecessary, both the changes to the upgrade requirements and the subsequent 'need' for DECs.
TCAS knows that DECs could never happen at BA and anytime you see ED with his captains uniform on he should be reminded that he does not have the EK qualifications to wear it.
My honest opinion.
And it's a bit rich to ask people to chill if the terms and conditions are changed after joining however many aircraft they had. It's simply is unfair and unnecessary, both the changes to the upgrade requirements and the subsequent 'need' for DECs.
TCAS knows that DECs could never happen at BA and anytime you see ED with his captains uniform on he should be reminded that he does not have the EK qualifications to wear it.
My honest opinion.