No Arabic please with Iranian ATC
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No Arabic please with Iranian ATC
My petpeeve:
Pilots who greet Iranian ATC/Tehran Radar in Arabic.
Once when an esteemed colleague of mine tried that it was met with a terse "I'm not arab and we don't speak arabic!!"
At least if you want to try a non-ICAO greeting, look up what hello, goodbye, and thank you is in farsi.
Any other petpeeves?? Anyone...
That's all! I feel better now.
Pilots who greet Iranian ATC/Tehran Radar in Arabic.
Once when an esteemed colleague of mine tried that it was met with a terse "I'm not arab and we don't speak arabic!!"
At least if you want to try a non-ICAO greeting, look up what hello, goodbye, and thank you is in farsi.
Any other petpeeves?? Anyone...
That's all! I feel better now.
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My petpeeve:
Pilots who greet Iranian ATC/Tehran Radar in Arabic.
Pilots who greet Iranian ATC/Tehran Radar in Arabic.
Second, Arabic was greatly influenced by Old Persian a and there are a lot of words that are similar. The greeting "Salaam" and the word "Inshallah" are two such examples.
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Perhaps it's that Persian vs. Arabian - as in "The Gulf" - all over again.
The problem that I've observed is that when someone greets Tehran Radar with "Asalaam Aleykum" they respond with the same phrase instead of the more proper (I think) "Aleykum Asalaam" so obviously they're not that familiar with Arabic, not even the most common of greetings.
The problem that I've observed is that when someone greets Tehran Radar with "Asalaam Aleykum" they respond with the same phrase instead of the more proper (I think) "Aleykum Asalaam" so obviously they're not that familiar with Arabic, not even the most common of greetings.
Last edited by Adverseyawn; 18th Mar 2009 at 16:56.
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inshalalah..........................
"xxxair 123, destination Tehran, inshalalah" Has nothing to do with a pilot’s lack of confidence on their ability to arrive at some point at a precise time. I wasn't there with you, and I didn't hear the transmission. But what do I know? I was only raised in Teheran and at the time was fluent in Farsi. And I was, on more than one occasion, mistaken for being Iranian by Iranians. I considered it a great honor.
There are several possibilities in what the pilot might have meant. First it was simply a reflex statement, with no particular meaning attached. Right mate; simply repeating a polite phrase.
If we were to meet and you asked me "How are you?" You are not really asking for an exhaustive run down of my health and the welfare of my immediate family. Those words are simply a polite gateway to the next level of communication, if there was any intended. Reflex statement-bridge phrase.
Or, they were placing themselves in the "proper and polite" position culturally by yielding themselves, and the events in their lives, to the possible redirection by the ALMIGHTY. It is a culturally respectable and well-bred position of humility. It may not translate favorably to somebody else outside that culture. But Dorothy is not in Kansas anymore.
Or, maybe they knew it was a pet peeve of yours and just wanted to get your goat? Just kidding, but there is an interesting “English phrase”. What are the Americans doing with goats?..........Let's not go there.
Persians are no more Arab, than the Catholics are Protestant. Not to understand that difference, and to lump them all together, is to make the same mistake as believing there is no difference (historically, language or religious experience) between an Englishman, Frenchman and a German. That reminds me of a joke………
A final note: there is a rage building among some Iranians against Arabs and Islam. (Rightly or wrongly. just what our world needs-more “rage”) Some are fiercely proud of their people and resent being “brushed off” or lumped together by foreigners who pass themselves off as being civilized, educated, technologically advanced and presume to "lead" the world. I am not saying that you personally did this or that you personally presume anything. Not the case at all.
This “cultural stuff” absolutely fascinates me, especially in how it relates to professional aviation and in particular CRM and the safety implications.
Side note: I would be especially interested in and value any feedback from Iranian and Arab pilots. How did I do, did I accurately present “your side”? Feel free to PM me.
3rdCulture. I only look like I'm a YANK.
There are several possibilities in what the pilot might have meant. First it was simply a reflex statement, with no particular meaning attached. Right mate; simply repeating a polite phrase.
If we were to meet and you asked me "How are you?" You are not really asking for an exhaustive run down of my health and the welfare of my immediate family. Those words are simply a polite gateway to the next level of communication, if there was any intended. Reflex statement-bridge phrase.
Or, they were placing themselves in the "proper and polite" position culturally by yielding themselves, and the events in their lives, to the possible redirection by the ALMIGHTY. It is a culturally respectable and well-bred position of humility. It may not translate favorably to somebody else outside that culture. But Dorothy is not in Kansas anymore.
Or, maybe they knew it was a pet peeve of yours and just wanted to get your goat? Just kidding, but there is an interesting “English phrase”. What are the Americans doing with goats?..........Let's not go there.
Persians are no more Arab, than the Catholics are Protestant. Not to understand that difference, and to lump them all together, is to make the same mistake as believing there is no difference (historically, language or religious experience) between an Englishman, Frenchman and a German. That reminds me of a joke………
A final note: there is a rage building among some Iranians against Arabs and Islam. (Rightly or wrongly. just what our world needs-more “rage”) Some are fiercely proud of their people and resent being “brushed off” or lumped together by foreigners who pass themselves off as being civilized, educated, technologically advanced and presume to "lead" the world. I am not saying that you personally did this or that you personally presume anything. Not the case at all.
This “cultural stuff” absolutely fascinates me, especially in how it relates to professional aviation and in particular CRM and the safety implications.
Side note: I would be especially interested in and value any feedback from Iranian and Arab pilots. How did I do, did I accurately present “your side”? Feel free to PM me.
3rdCulture. I only look like I'm a YANK.
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Originally Posted by Kamelf Hucker
Yep that's what I just said.
Speaking of which - another common pet peeve is those who have no faith in their flying ability and make "hopeful" estimates of time or level or even destination when asked by ATC.
"xxxair 123, destination Tehran, inshalalah"
Speaking of which - another common pet peeve is those who have no faith in their flying ability and make "hopeful" estimates of time or level or even destination when asked by ATC.
"xxxair 123, destination Tehran, inshalalah"
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NorthBeach,
Great Reply!
When I first started flying for a living, most of my trips where down to Central and South America. Being young, dumb and full of.....I couldn't stand all the Spanish.
Then I learned the culture, understood the reason for some of the phrases from ATC and pilots....it made sense. No different then me saying "so long ya'll" do to my region of the U.S.
Now, when I'm in the gulf region, I sign off saying MaSallam. (not sure of spelling) It's courtesy and nothing more.
Thanks for added reason to a stupid comment. Cheers!
Great Reply!
When I first started flying for a living, most of my trips where down to Central and South America. Being young, dumb and full of.....I couldn't stand all the Spanish.
Then I learned the culture, understood the reason for some of the phrases from ATC and pilots....it made sense. No different then me saying "so long ya'll" do to my region of the U.S.
Now, when I'm in the gulf region, I sign off saying MaSallam. (not sure of spelling) It's courtesy and nothing more.
Thanks for added reason to a stupid comment. Cheers!
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To avoid any problem just great on a "neutral" way: good morning,afternoon,evening in their local language (if i knowm it by courtesy),otherwise in english, and that's it..without any religion conotation...First of all i don't want to impose my Religion to others, second i don't known the religion(and i'm not interested to known it) of the ATC guy/lady!
(PositiveRate86 &Kamel Hucker: it seems that you assume that all the arabs&iranians are muslim
!).
(PositiveRate86 &Kamel Hucker: it seems that you assume that all the arabs&iranians are muslim
!).
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Was actually flying yesterday over Karachi FIR and heard someone use the word "shukran".
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Gulf, Arabian or Persian?
Just say "crossing the Arabian gulf" on the PA inbound to Tehran and you'll spend a few hours on the ground as some Iranian on board has just rung the President. Just happened to a ME airline recently.
The PAX was probably after some browny points.
Caused a considerable delay.
Oh, was the individual worried about the inconvience he was causing to the outbound PAX (comrades) with onward connections? Hadn't a clue!!
The PAX was probably after some browny points.
Caused a considerable delay.
Oh, was the individual worried about the inconvience he was causing to the outbound PAX (comrades) with onward connections? Hadn't a clue!!
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(PositiveRate86 &Kamel Hucker: it seems that you assume that all the arabs&iranians are muslim !).
!).
The ISLAMIC Republic of Iran and 98% are Muslim.
Sorry for assuming. My bad.
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Northbeach - you say Persians are no more than Arab, than the `Catholics are Protestant... Well what a stupid ignorant comment..
Indeed Persians are not Arab - correct.. However this is speaking about ethnic background and genetic bloodlines.. You can have Protestants and Catholics of the SAME nationality and ethnic grouping - such as the English..
777-200Lr - 'shukran' in Arabic is very similar to 'shukria' in Urdu
Indeed Persians are not Arab - correct.. However this is speaking about ethnic background and genetic bloodlines.. You can have Protestants and Catholics of the SAME nationality and ethnic grouping - such as the English..
777-200Lr - 'shukran' in Arabic is very similar to 'shukria' in Urdu
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thanks
Rwedareyet,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. “….it made sense…” Isn’t it wonderful when the “light” goes on? It’s even better when you can laugh at your own culture when you begin to see it from somebody else’s eyes.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. “….it made sense…” Isn’t it wonderful when the “light” goes on? It’s even better when you can laugh at your own culture when you begin to see it from somebody else’s eyes.
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My pet peeve is Americans using the phrase "my bad" to describe an error they have made.
It makes absolutely no grammatical sense, gives the impression that they see the world through illiterate childrens eyes ....oh wait a minute they do....sorry carry on with the inhallah peeeve thing
It makes absolutely no grammatical sense, gives the impression that they see the world through illiterate childrens eyes ....oh wait a minute they do....sorry carry on with the inhallah peeeve thing
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Kamelf - Insha'Allah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Grow up and learn to respect others' religious beliefs.
Grow up and learn to respect others' religious beliefs.