QR rules & regulation
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Headset use
Agree with Black Stain, the use of O2 during single pilot ops was a mandatory requirement above a certain FL. I remember ours was FL 250 (something to do with the TUC I think). Quick donning mask negated that need.
No matter what the SOP says, I still practice the use of headset, airmanship sake.
No matter what the SOP says, I still practice the use of headset, airmanship sake.
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So basically gentlemen, what you are saying is that because once upon a time (when quick-donning masks did not exist, carb heaters where still in use on public transport airplanes and an FO was there just to take the weather because CRM was just a three letter code used by the marconist to mail a secret message to his girlfriend) you had to wear the O2 mask when alone in the flightdeck, you are still practicing that procedure today!
That is just GREAT! Just a couple of further questions:
Do you dare to use the Auto thrust on approach or dont you do that as well because it was not recommended to do so on the early EFIS equipped planes?
Do you trust the "GPS PRIMARY" indication of your FMS? 5 years ago there was an OEB from Airbus telling us to disregard the message and to always crosscheck with raw data so maybe you should still do that as well!
I am very sorry, but those remarks just do not cut it for me guys!
If what you are saying would be sooooo important, how come neither Boeing or Airbus even talk about them? Not in their SOPs, not in the FCTM, no where!
TCAS...I just would want to see how many pilots actually make an ATC call while executing the manouevre! Once stabilised, yes, but not during the manouevre itself!
AIRMANSHIP....yeah right...maybe we have different defenitions of airmanship but sitting in the flightdeck , strapped up like a monkey with a headset on your head and probably still reading your newspaper and having a hot cup of coffee in front of you on your table, pretending to be ready for the inevitable (hereby scaring your R1 when she walks in ) just is NOT part of Airmanship for me!
But hey, do as you like I guess. Next time we fly together I WILL take a picture of you!
That is just GREAT! Just a couple of further questions:
Do you dare to use the Auto thrust on approach or dont you do that as well because it was not recommended to do so on the early EFIS equipped planes?
Do you trust the "GPS PRIMARY" indication of your FMS? 5 years ago there was an OEB from Airbus telling us to disregard the message and to always crosscheck with raw data so maybe you should still do that as well!
I am very sorry, but those remarks just do not cut it for me guys!
If what you are saying would be sooooo important, how come neither Boeing or Airbus even talk about them? Not in their SOPs, not in the FCTM, no where!
TCAS...I just would want to see how many pilots actually make an ATC call while executing the manouevre! Once stabilised, yes, but not during the manouevre itself!
AIRMANSHIP....yeah right...maybe we have different defenitions of airmanship but sitting in the flightdeck , strapped up like a monkey with a headset on your head and probably still reading your newspaper and having a hot cup of coffee in front of you on your table, pretending to be ready for the inevitable (hereby scaring your R1 when she walks in ) just is NOT part of Airmanship for me!
But hey, do as you like I guess. Next time we fly together I WILL take a picture of you!
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SHNEIDERTROPHY, CASIO MAN, CDRW and BLACK STAIN. The discussion here was about being reported or reporting. Isn't it? 
Or may be you have changed the subject to "the sleeper captain oxygen necessity" .
Or may be you have changed the subject to "the sleeper captain oxygen necessity" .
Last edited by Blacksteel7; 25th Feb 2009 at 18:14.
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BS7, you keep pushing to get that FO on the list a bit too much, sounds like you have a personal bone to pick with the guy...
This list started by naming people who report their colleagues for bull**** reasons, if you try to get a name on the list because he/she reported someone whose actions negatively effected safety, than I think you are missing the point.
Again, as I mentioned before, I don't know the details of the story, but think - if the FO had to use the emergency code to enter the cockpit, there is almost 100% probability that the CSD on the flight reported that to her office. Sounds like the guy didn't have that much choice, he would be in trouble for not writning anything.
As for the question if he informed the captain of the report - if he didn't it's not nice. But still I think that situation is not even close to getting someone reported for drinking oj or suspended because of a disagreement with one of "privileged" cabin crew.
This list started by naming people who report their colleagues for bull**** reasons, if you try to get a name on the list because he/she reported someone whose actions negatively effected safety, than I think you are missing the point.
Again, as I mentioned before, I don't know the details of the story, but think - if the FO had to use the emergency code to enter the cockpit, there is almost 100% probability that the CSD on the flight reported that to her office. Sounds like the guy didn't have that much choice, he would be in trouble for not writning anything.
As for the question if he informed the captain of the report - if he didn't it's not nice. But still I think that situation is not even close to getting someone reported for drinking oj or suspended because of a disagreement with one of "privileged" cabin crew.
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Yes Black Steel, back to the point of shooting back-stabbers!!
But this falling asleep when alone on the flightdeck is a serious safety issue. It is called the EMERGENCY Access Code for a good reason. The event required reporting somehow and the true villians, Goat Rostering, need a slap. In reality Rostering will be rewarded for maximum crew utilization. But at least there would be a paper trail for newspapers to follow when an accident occurs. We all keep copies of every ASR yes?
The Captain should have been mature enough to report the event himself.
The First Officer could only be criticized for not telling the Captain about the report, if that part is true.
No-one suggested that Shneidertrophy. We are trained in the SIM for TCAS RA as dual crew. Think it through, it would be very messy solo without headsets on.
FCOM and SOP are the minimum standard and do not cover everything. For example, stall recovery is not a recall item because the aircraft cannot be stalled in Normal Law. Should a pilot wait until Alternate Law activates before reviewing the procedure? Should he ask the other pilot to read it out for him during stall?
You will love this one. When operating at a procedural airport I preset RNP NAV on something useful. Or should I wait until both FMGC fail?
If someone does something that does not compromise FCOM or SOP but enhances safety I say "good work". One pilot at work wears NOMEX underwear. For me that's too far, but I do not criticize. Being critical of safe action would be poor airmanship.
The Axiom: Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
But this falling asleep when alone on the flightdeck is a serious safety issue. It is called the EMERGENCY Access Code for a good reason. The event required reporting somehow and the true villians, Goat Rostering, need a slap. In reality Rostering will be rewarded for maximum crew utilization. But at least there would be a paper trail for newspapers to follow when an accident occurs. We all keep copies of every ASR yes?
The Captain should have been mature enough to report the event himself.
The First Officer could only be criticized for not telling the Captain about the report, if that part is true.
wear the O2 mask when alone in the flightdeck, you are still practicing that procedure today!
FCOM and SOP are the minimum standard and do not cover everything. For example, stall recovery is not a recall item because the aircraft cannot be stalled in Normal Law. Should a pilot wait until Alternate Law activates before reviewing the procedure? Should he ask the other pilot to read it out for him during stall?
You will love this one. When operating at a procedural airport I preset RNP NAV on something useful. Or should I wait until both FMGC fail?
If someone does something that does not compromise FCOM or SOP but enhances safety I say "good work". One pilot at work wears NOMEX underwear. For me that's too far, but I do not criticize. Being critical of safe action would be poor airmanship.
The Axiom: Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
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flight deck and cabin crew
When I was at QR I remember working with some very very nice Flight deck crew but on the other hand there were a small percentage of Flight deck crew who were just awful. Why certain individuals were awful just baffled me, I think its like some sort of power struggle.
I also remember one certain CSD (a very nice lady) who was on a full Doha - Cairo flight on the A300. The captain insisted on having an expresso coffee during turn around, the CSd realised that there was only a few expresso capsules left for the coffeee machine and she then told the Captain that she could make him another cofee as the few capsules left would probably be used in the premium cabins for the passenger use.
To cut a long story short, the Captain went mad with the CSD, CSD was upset and it ended up getting back to the office.
The whole point of this story is that I noticed that the cabin crew were mentioned as reporting colleagues to the office (in other terms being a grass). I would like to say that during my time at QR it wasnt always the Cabin Crew who would run back to the office, sometimes the way the Cabin Crew were treated was appauling, I was one of them on a flight to Karachi, on the A320 when a certain captain would not speak to me because he knew I was gay, I was the CS and to be snubbed by a captain infront of the whole crew was just disgusting so I put pen-to-paper and I am glad I did because not only was his treatment towards me totally unprofessional it was also a safety issue. I actually stated in my complaint that the Captain should read up on the Kegworth disaster (British Midland crash at EMA)
To my horror, I actually heard from a fellow CSD who was operating a BKK flight that the Captain said: "I do not want a male serving me, get me one of the Thai girls to serve me".........
I think that some of the reporting back to the office is justified, again, this type of behaviour is totally unprofessional. Its sad to have to resort to reporting others but on the other hand it is sometimes justified.
I also remember one certain CSD (a very nice lady) who was on a full Doha - Cairo flight on the A300. The captain insisted on having an expresso coffee during turn around, the CSd realised that there was only a few expresso capsules left for the coffeee machine and she then told the Captain that she could make him another cofee as the few capsules left would probably be used in the premium cabins for the passenger use.
To cut a long story short, the Captain went mad with the CSD, CSD was upset and it ended up getting back to the office.
The whole point of this story is that I noticed that the cabin crew were mentioned as reporting colleagues to the office (in other terms being a grass). I would like to say that during my time at QR it wasnt always the Cabin Crew who would run back to the office, sometimes the way the Cabin Crew were treated was appauling, I was one of them on a flight to Karachi, on the A320 when a certain captain would not speak to me because he knew I was gay, I was the CS and to be snubbed by a captain infront of the whole crew was just disgusting so I put pen-to-paper and I am glad I did because not only was his treatment towards me totally unprofessional it was also a safety issue. I actually stated in my complaint that the Captain should read up on the Kegworth disaster (British Midland crash at EMA)
To my horror, I actually heard from a fellow CSD who was operating a BKK flight that the Captain said: "I do not want a male serving me, get me one of the Thai girls to serve me".........
I think that some of the reporting back to the office is justified, again, this type of behaviour is totally unprofessional. Its sad to have to resort to reporting others but on the other hand it is sometimes justified.
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Hi guys,
let me just say, im kinda shocked by what im hearing here. Im a wanabe pilot and Im trying desperately to get into the Etihad Cadet Pilot program. I was thinking of applying as cabin crew in the meantime, cause flying is simply my passion, its my life. But after what I read here, it'll probably be better if I applied as cabin crew for an airline other than Qatar Airways. I am also very very glad that the Flight deck crew are united and work together, it makes me want to become a pilot even more(hard to imagine lol). Hope to work with you in the skies one day guys!!
CheerZ
let me just say, im kinda shocked by what im hearing here. Im a wanabe pilot and Im trying desperately to get into the Etihad Cadet Pilot program. I was thinking of applying as cabin crew in the meantime, cause flying is simply my passion, its my life. But after what I read here, it'll probably be better if I applied as cabin crew for an airline other than Qatar Airways. I am also very very glad that the Flight deck crew are united and work together, it makes me want to become a pilot even more(hard to imagine lol). Hope to work with you in the skies one day guys!!
CheerZ
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Aviate, navigate, communicate
And exactly in this order. Yes there was some ancient FAA regulation concerning oxygen mask when the other pilot was away. That is finished. Also there is no real need for headsets, if you have a TCAS you are busy flying, after TCAS action there is plenty of time to talk. And yes, I hate too it if some bloke suddendly goes to sleep without announcing it, there are proper procedures for controlled rest. There is however still no need to snitch, talk to the Captain directly.
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strength..
I agree with some parts...I have spend the last decade in the flight deck trying to educate my partners of how to treat other and to act as a leader.
You see it's all come from the education you receive..
But for some people who as been raise giving order to the maid and treat them like s***t it's an uphill road.
I never been reported and I have what's available for me ALWAYS maybe because I lead by example. Respect is something you earn not impose.
On occasion I had to interfere with crew on the back because they want to report someone, all but one time it never left the aircraft.
So the point is to try to solve the problem by talking with the people and understanding there point of view, dealing with the problem as adult (professional) listening is the key. After all who's the leader???
I don't say that we don't have bad apple among us who try to go up in grade by back stabbing others but they are a minority and should be deal with accordingly.
Think of it that ways there must be a reason why the guy on the 9th floor hate us. Do your job properly and leave your god complex at home, you will be treated as you treat your crew
I agree with some parts...I have spend the last decade in the flight deck trying to educate my partners of how to treat other and to act as a leader.
You see it's all come from the education you receive..
But for some people who as been raise giving order to the maid and treat them like s***t it's an uphill road.I never been reported and I have what's available for me ALWAYS maybe because I lead by example. Respect is something you earn not impose.
On occasion I had to interfere with crew on the back because they want to report someone, all but one time it never left the aircraft.
So the point is to try to solve the problem by talking with the people and understanding there point of view, dealing with the problem as adult (professional) listening is the key. After all who's the leader???
I don't say that we don't have bad apple among us who try to go up in grade by back stabbing others but they are a minority and should be deal with accordingly.
Think of it that ways there must be a reason why the guy on the 9th floor hate us. Do your job properly and leave your god complex at home, you will be treated as you treat your crew
Last edited by Tintin; 27th Feb 2009 at 17:03.
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sorry guys but the justification about the TCAS RA is totally rubbish!! if at cruising altitude you're getting a RA, it means your situation awearness is just not there!!! ATC should have been notified way long before an A/C gets that close to you or something should have been done way long before you do get into that situation. At all other flight phases ie climb & decend, take off & landing both guys should be in the flightdeck anyways!!! so trying to say putting on your headset helps here just doesn't make sense to me, infact it scares me to hell seeing my crew do that as it shows me he/she doesn't know why or what their doin. an old wise guy once said....monkey see monkey do....
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Schneidertrophy and all the others who still don't understand the importance of interaction with ATC should definitely be reported for unprofessional behaviour and poor airmanship. And I don't mind if it's the CSD who does it...
Just "survived" a descent RA. One guy descending on top of our heads (closest 1NM, 200ft), another guy 2000ft below could be turned out of the way by the ATCO sparing him an RA and us a second one... Radar update is only 5 times per minute so the controller wouldn't have know what was happening if it hadn't been for our magic immediate transmission "TCAS RA"! So I think all the astronauts who still think that in today's environment it's enough to just fly the plane and only consider ATC once they feel like it and they have a hand free, should definitely retire soon. They are a real danger to aviation.
Or maybe there is a chance they might be capable of adjusting their attitude once they have been reported by some junior F/A with a PPL
Spot on Black Stain. I like your professional attitude and I can somehow guess why you didn't feel at home in Akbar's flying circus...
Just "survived" a descent RA. One guy descending on top of our heads (closest 1NM, 200ft), another guy 2000ft below could be turned out of the way by the ATCO sparing him an RA and us a second one... Radar update is only 5 times per minute so the controller wouldn't have know what was happening if it hadn't been for our magic immediate transmission "TCAS RA"! So I think all the astronauts who still think that in today's environment it's enough to just fly the plane and only consider ATC once they feel like it and they have a hand free, should definitely retire soon. They are a real danger to aviation.
Or maybe there is a chance they might be capable of adjusting their attitude once they have been reported by some junior F/A with a PPL
Spot on Black Stain. I like your professional attitude and I can somehow guess why you didn't feel at home in Akbar's flying circus...
Last edited by a330flyer; 27th Feb 2009 at 19:26.
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Flyer
Nicely said. As with Black Stain and NoJoke I wear my headset. Not only for your reason above, but because I am fed up with shouting myself hoarse and having to answer the radio for the wombat next to me with his speaker up; NOT wearing his headset because he doesn't want to ruffle his graceful locks.
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Ladies....
Don't tell my dad that he has a daughter now;
he's still convinced that he actually has a son who's flying a nice Air Bus
Well Schneider, maybe you're complete lack of situational awareness gets you reported more than others...
Though I happen to know that most of your previous posts are actually spot on and sadly enough reflecting the reality in this crazy flying outfit. Keep the blue side up and beware of all the brownnosers behind the cockpit door!
Peace
Don't tell my dad that he has a daughter now;
he's still convinced that he actually has a son who's flying a nice Air Bus
Well Schneider, maybe you're complete lack of situational awareness gets you reported more than others...
Though I happen to know that most of your previous posts are actually spot on and sadly enough reflecting the reality in this crazy flying outfit. Keep the blue side up and beware of all the brownnosers behind the cockpit door!
Peace
, or spy in the 
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list
Yea keep a list going thats the only way .
Seams that the list is blocked or any post about it is deleted . Maybe we should move to some other web forum or to to the qrblacklist one .
Where is the guy who told us he will do forum for QR ??
Seams that the list is blocked or any post about it is deleted . Maybe we should move to some other web forum or to to the qrblacklist one .
Where is the guy who told us he will do forum for QR ??
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would any of you who are defending the captain for sleeping in the cockpit or bashing the first officer for reporting this incident to the company like to have your family riding in the back of the airplane with this captain?