EK Overtime

[EKALPA]

I told you We need to get organized But did you listen Noooooooo.
Hey ketek400 you got the awswer get a lot of Ky jelly because is just starting. Just got it from a reliable source that fix electric and water allowance like the phone allowance is coming, anything extra salary deducted so convert your garden into a kids sand pit.
pay cut of 10% effective May 1st, only 4 weeks vacations , No company contribution on your providence fund.
If you don't like it leave, We are 200 pilots fat.
We allways looking for further cuts ideas

cheers.

[kennedy]

Don't forget the removal of transport to/from work, wonder how long that's going to last?

[Fugazi]

Kennedy & EKALPA..............You guys (I assume you are male, as most females would have more sense) are complete tw**ts!!! Are so so naive that you don't think EK management read these postings? Well, I assure you they do.......All you are doing is giving them more ideas to cut our package. Gosh I really hope you guys do not play poker. You'd last 5 minutes, at best!!! Raise your concerns with management, like I have, not give them ammunition to shoot us all in the backs.

[buzz&sntch]

Raise your concerns with management, like I have

Did it work? Did you walk away with any kind of meaningful exchange? Maybe it's just me, but I seem to come out of such meetings baffled and in a sour mood. What also were the long term effects? Not flaming, just really curious.
I will give management credit that they are aware of our every benefit, and posting of such benefits probably wont remind them to take them away, even if they waste their time in a collosal way by reading these posts. I enjoy reading these posts because they can usually justify whatever mood I'm in at the time.

[Marooned]

We’ve been here before and we’ll continue to be shafted until planes stop flying.

Whilst we have self-serving, spineless sycophants for ‘managers’, who are powerless anyway, wielding the prod handed down to them by the powers that be we will continue to feel the pain.

From DECs to crew rest facilities, accommodation to duty hours and now ‘sharing the pain’ with our over time they run roughshod over our terms and conditions because quite frankly they can get away with it.

We can & should resist with ASRs, ignore 'fuel saving advice' but what they really need to understand is a clear signal that enough is enough. How?

Coordinate a 'Press 2', an en mass sickie planned on a specific day. It would ground the fleet and cause chaos. It would make the press and cost the company dearly.

Likely hood of it happening? Zero, but I like to think about it anyway.

We are easily divided, live in fear of losing our jobs and therefore easily ruled. From Capt US, TCAS’s DEC BA mates (in contravention of the FOM but TCAS reserves the right to enforce or ignore it when he wants) to all the other Vaseline encrusted ‘colleagues’ there are too many of us prepared to go to work on days off let alone do something as a group to stand up to the abuse.

The only good thing about the current financial crisis is that it was inevitable and the sooner we get through it and out the other side the sooner there will be opportunities to leave.

[White Knight]

So I take it that management will be working every Friday now - to 'share the pain'.. And of course for no extra pay

I haven't worked any days off for a long long time, and certainly won't be doing so in the future


EKALPA (wishful thinking).. 'Reliable source'? Well, the productivity threshold is NOT a contractual subject.. However, most else of what you mention IS and it won't change - ie 42 days leave, company provident contributions, utilities paid for.. What may happen is a 'B' scale type contract attempted for new joiners, but like every big announcement it's all hot air and will all blow over once senior managers are happy they've stuck their finger up at us....

Remember - this comes from people who think that the 343 and 345 have brake fans

[dooner]

Hmm, let's see we are saving how much in fuel each week, according to stats roughly 6-8% below budget each week (from the weekly OPs update), that is a lot of juice saved to date, as well as cash.

So if the post from above is correct and they are taking back a minimum of 17% in overtime costs, I wonder how long it would be before that 17% is now eaten up in extra fuel burn, after all we are responsible for "SAFE CONDUCT" of our flights and our passengers expect nothing less. Remember idle reverse is only when "operationally feasible" (according to the talking a-hole, sorry horse!) and it is embarrassing running out of energy and having to use a whack of power to get to the gate after shutting one or two down when it is all uphill to the spot.

By the way anyone else concerned about spending 5 hours or more on a regular basis at levels above 370........

Food for thought

Dooner

[Wiley]

Maybe it's just me, but I seem to come out of such meetings baffled and in a sour mood.

That's because all such meetings are tightly scripted well before any hapless line pilot walks through the door, and always have been.

Am I the only one who's wondered if the message just might sink in to the heady hights if no one turned up to meetings such as the Thursday talkfests?

I know it will never happen - there'll always be some poor sod who believes he will be listened to if he goes to such meetings (or imagines himself to be on the bottom of the greasy pole) - but I can't help but feel that this would be the one message they might actually understand.

[dustyprops]

This place is becoming pretty average pretty quickly. This lot have gotta be the most short sighted "management" team I've ever come accross. As soon as things improve, you'll not see anyone for dust around here. Why on earth is there no "working group" here?

[halas]

Transparency

Increasing the roster-able hours per month for only flight pay and not productivity is a sacrifice by the pilot group.

What sacrifices are Ed, TCAS, AAR, TC, MF, etc - and every other department making?

halas

[Schibulsky]

@FatPilot

Oh, by the way, the jealousy which greeted the last three payrises means don’t even bother discussing it with anyone outside the pilot group (eg. cabin crew or ground staff). With the exception of the engineers who’re being bent over themselves, there’s a lot of joy spreading around the group that the greedy, lazy, thieving pilots have finally been brought to heel.

Please check the facts before posting such
Anyway this kind of stupid comments might be responsible for the way you are viewed by others.

I can see AAR laughing his @ss off cause his plan works: Pi$$ off everybody and wait till out of frustration they turn onto each other!

Believe me, we ALL get screwed!!
I.E. the roster changes at the NCC or just the fact that during the last years we got min 1 aircraft per month delivered and not a single additional flight dispatcher was hired. This year even the ones leaving will not be replaced. Talking about 20%+ productivity increase!! Similar developments at other departments!

So please dont degrade your otherwise reasonable post to by complaining about the bad bad jealous colleagues
btw. I am really jealous when I see you going on a nice overnight t/a to the subcontinent

Marooned comment

We are easily divided, live in fear of losing our jobs and therefore easily ruled

.
is correct for the whole workforce!

So PLEASE keep our anger directed at the "management"

[5star]

What is the next step?

With the introduction of these new limits the company will try to max-out everyone on the line. In less than 6 months quite a few of us will be over the 900hrs limit. Guess what.... It wouldn't surprise me if they send you and me home for a few months to
rest WITHOUT PAY. It is the ME version of unpaid leave that you most likely will not appreciate.

Lets be honest guys, you and I knew it from day one that we would get scr*wed one day. Well get ready, it's only the beginning.

[White Knight]

5* - that's total garbage!!

[PositiveRate876]

ALT

By the way, if your ALT destination was an offline station, you've been automatically assigned an online destination of their choosing.

There was a small envelope under the larger one. Check your mail again.

[alwayzinit]

Gentlemen and ladies.

Whilst I agree the method of release and reasoning/spin of these latest developments are insulting, I do feel we all know that it is time to wake up and smell the coffee.

Aviation is an industry that is used by the travelling public as a WANT, very very few people really NEED to fly, it's luxury especially since video conferencing became possible.

The big picture is the world airline industry has never seen it this bad ever and it going to get worse.

The Legacy carriers of the US now cannot go Cp 11 as there is no money to shore them up.

BA just announced huge losses and other big Europeans will be doing the same soon.

The bottom line is who will still be "alive" when things pick up ..............whenever that might be........wins.

Personally I would rather be "alive" when that time comes.

So yes the T+Cs are getting worse, that hurts(it's going to get worse too) and it's insulting to be treated like morons but trying to trip up the golden goose is, well

I have been in this business all my life from airline brat to 49yr old KOS (Knackered Old Sh1t) and if we really want our happy retirement wherever that may be we ALL have to pull together.

Yes the senior management should open up and show how they are shareing the pain, chances are they won't , that however does not mean should behave like stroppy kids.

Alwayz

[ekwhistleblower]

Hi,

Method of release was a personal letter, how else should they have done it?

Check out the loads at the moment, EK like everyone else are suffering. I spent yesterday looking at the cash balances of some European airlines to see which ones will go bust next. So the tosh about the pilots getting together and wasting cash does my head in.

EKWB

[downandoutagain]

What's all the compalints about?

I hardley ever do overtime. If only I could fly a bit more for time onto my lugbook I would be happpy. You are complaning too much. Who need days off when we live in such a bootiful country?
I have a job and it is nearly secure for the near future. Thank you to the runners of thes company

[Marooned]

EK Whistler: EK is not a cooperative, I work-they pay. Loads may vary but I fly, a lot... that's what they employed me to do, not market to fill the seats.

A380_800: The same but we haven't lost anything yet but we're expected to pay in advance?

Down & whatever... get a dictionary. Just because you don't feel screwed yet does not mean it's not coming.

This is why we are fundamentally screwed; there are those who feel grateful, beholden to the company and see it in a way that they should do whatever is demanded for the sake of the greater corporate good. Or those who have seen this before in one way or another to see through it as a way of reducing costs to achieve departmental targets.

I for one don't buy the Ed 'personal' - 'share the pain' of a cosy EK family company in crisis. I see the reality of a cold, hard corporate business intent on survival at any cost ensuring the bonuses of managers and returns of major investors alike.

Just ask those who came from 'legacy' carriers in the US and Varig: were there Ts & Cs honored? Pension rights adhered to? Does anyone really think that corporate EK cares about any of us?

We have even less rights, NO RIGHTS yet the likes of above want me to feel responsible for the success of the entire company. It is a ploy, a cynical use of the current climate to squeeze very ounce they can for the sake of preserving the bottom line.

Regardless; 'The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true'.

[White Knight]

Marooned - get a dictionary AND a grammar book...

"were there T & Cs honored?" ---- It's 'their'.
"we have even less rights" ------ 'fewer' rights.

Sorry. Couldn't resist that

And as for the compalints and lugbook!! How many ales hast thou partaken of tonight downandoutagain?


As for the loads - Feb is always a quiet month! But can you get to Oz on ID90 at the moment??

[Volverine]

Fighting the crisis all together yes good idea but why only pilots as to pay cash now with no warning, no strategy ?
"pilots meetings", look at the result. No minutes and axed conditions.
Thank you for this "favor"
Don't be surprise if some gets mad, you provoque it by yourself.
Remember, One goal, One team !