QR - why is Qualification for Transfer and Promotion "removed" from OM A?
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QR - why is Qualification for Transfer and Promotion "removed" from OM A?
Does anyone know the reason why OM A 5.1.2 Qualification for Transfer and Promotion is mostly moved out from OM A to OM D now? (in the newest OM A revision available for download since 22.01.09.)
Maybe I am paranoid, but all the important stuff (LI, TRI, TRE, and command upgrade) is now moved to a manual that is not accessible to all the pilots...
It was probably not just moved, but also changed. Anyone knows how? And from where can we get a pfd copy of OM D?
Maybe I am paranoid, but all the important stuff (LI, TRI, TRE, and command upgrade) is now moved to a manual that is not accessible to all the pilots...
It was probably not just moved, but also changed. Anyone knows how? And from where can we get a pfd copy of OM D?
Last edited by Xaxa; 30th Jan 2009 at 11:02. Reason: Added "?" to the title.
Command Upgrade not Allowed
.If you ask for the manual you can be demoted to Cabin Crew or Terminated.LOL
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OK, I'm not trying to play devils advocate here.. But, I must say that getting a command position within 5 years of joining an international airline is still pretty fast compared to many other airlines.
I know it must be really hard to be a F/O here, I sympathize with all of you. but some airlines you would be more than 10 years before being considered for an upgrade.
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Krunch
I know it must be really hard to be a F/O here, I sympathize with all of you. but some airlines you would be more than 10 years before being considered for an upgrade.
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Krunch
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Well Krunch - a lot of guys came here with command time already, and lots of it!!!
Besides - we don't get scored on PPCs anyway now do we?? So I think you can ignore that..
Besides - we don't get scored on PPCs anyway now do we?? So I think you can ignore that..
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It's a conic problem with Qatar Airways.
As for now Qatar airways is short of co-pilots across the fleets and surplus of Captains,Now how would any one expect the company to maintain the upgrade,that means who ever reach the minimum requirement must go for command, then how dose it end. It will become 2 captains cockpit .The company in very delegate situation ,company can not stop the upgrade,If they do then co-pilots will leave by the tens.
So the only way out of it, though it is not the best way,is to put some hurdles and try to slow down the process and tighten the mesh further.
Recruitment groups are every where now trying to close the gap.
As for now Qatar airways is short of co-pilots across the fleets and surplus of Captains,Now how would any one expect the company to maintain the upgrade,that means who ever reach the minimum requirement must go for command, then how dose it end. It will become 2 captains cockpit .The company in very delegate situation ,company can not stop the upgrade,If they do then co-pilots will leave by the tens.
So the only way out of it, though it is not the best way,is to put some hurdles and try to slow down the process and tighten the mesh further.
Recruitment groups are every where now trying to close the gap.
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Ramiyns:
Surplus of CPT...!?!!
depends which fleet you are talking about!
On 320 i doubt we have a surplus of CPT,well when i see my roster i don't have that feeling!
(85..90+ hours/month).
Surplus of CPT...!?!!
depends which fleet you are talking about!On 320 i doubt we have a surplus of CPT,well when i see my roster i don't have that feeling!
(85..90+ hours/month).
Last edited by loc22550; 4th Feb 2009 at 11:29.
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Yes, surplus of cpt's on A330
It's going to be like that on A330 fleet until transfer to 777's begins which is going to be slow, in any case some of us will be on stby , plenty of rest and days - off for some time ( some cpt's are not affected as usual . )
Last edited by intaomri; 4th Feb 2009 at 12:38. Reason: spelling error
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people at ops change command upgrade requirements for one main reason...to reduce the requirements to:
- enable friends to get command upgrades, or
- make it easier for nationals to get command upgrades.
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Man, this forum is worse than a group of women with too much time on their hands.
Most of you flew somewhere else before, correct? So in which manual back home where the qualification requirements for training staff mentioned? It has to be in OM PART D! Why copy it in OM PART A?
It does not change anything for none of you anyhow. Becoming instructor is all about " dont ask us, we will ask you" ! And rightfully so!
Instructing has nothing to do with seniority (nor is it a given right) and thanks to the many failures lately this has been reckognised!
Command upgrades and fleet transfers are the only things which should be in OM Part A!
Too many captains.....
True on A330, not true on A320. So no generalisation possible!
Upgrades
I agree with what is said above. Stop whinging! 5 years is still a rapid and descent time to get your upgrade in an international carrier!
Previous command time: HHAhahah...make me laugh. If it would have been sufficient they would have hired you as DEC! On top of that you accepted an FO job so stop crying! And from my own experience: I would rather fly with a relatively inexperienced anytime than having to fly with these crybaby " I was a captain before" FOs running around here! GET OVER IT! And stop insisting you deserve a fast track upgrade...there ARE more senior FOS in front of you awaiting their turn!
And all in all, upgrades are indeed continuing . Assesment flight are ongoing on all fleets continously, an interview is planned mid this month and new Captains are being released online every week...
I have seen times here when NOT A SINGLE upgrade was done for over two years so once more...STOP CRYING!
Its time some of you start seeing the reality here:
QR is NOT a fast track to make promotion rapidly! We have over 1000 pilots at the moment, all of which are waiting for something. Pick a number and await your turn!
Usually I am criticising this company heavily, but reagrding this tread I strongly feel you are in the wrong direction!
Just a bunch of spoiled little children!
Anticipating your attack right now....
Most of you flew somewhere else before, correct? So in which manual back home where the qualification requirements for training staff mentioned? It has to be in OM PART D! Why copy it in OM PART A?
It does not change anything for none of you anyhow. Becoming instructor is all about " dont ask us, we will ask you" ! And rightfully so!
Instructing has nothing to do with seniority (nor is it a given right) and thanks to the many failures lately this has been reckognised!
Command upgrades and fleet transfers are the only things which should be in OM Part A!
Too many captains.....
True on A330, not true on A320. So no generalisation possible!
Upgrades
I agree with what is said above. Stop whinging! 5 years is still a rapid and descent time to get your upgrade in an international carrier!
Previous command time: HHAhahah...make me laugh. If it would have been sufficient they would have hired you as DEC! On top of that you accepted an FO job so stop crying! And from my own experience: I would rather fly with a relatively inexperienced anytime than having to fly with these crybaby " I was a captain before" FOs running around here! GET OVER IT! And stop insisting you deserve a fast track upgrade...there ARE more senior FOS in front of you awaiting their turn!
And all in all, upgrades are indeed continuing . Assesment flight are ongoing on all fleets continously, an interview is planned mid this month and new Captains are being released online every week...
I have seen times here when NOT A SINGLE upgrade was done for over two years so once more...STOP CRYING!
Its time some of you start seeing the reality here:
QR is NOT a fast track to make promotion rapidly! We have over 1000 pilots at the moment, all of which are waiting for something. Pick a number and await your turn!
Usually I am criticising this company heavily, but reagrding this tread I strongly feel you are in the wrong direction!
Just a bunch of spoiled little children!
Anticipating your attack right now....
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shneidertrophy:
a bit harsh, but your definitely on the right track. I agree with the general contents of your post. I hope the others will listen up.
no one likes to fly with a crying " I used to be Capt ".. F/O, you accepted the job. as far as I know, no one kidnapped you and forced you into that seat, so Grow up.. in QA as all other airlines, you'll just have to wait your turn.
don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the fact that the airline has moved the goal posts several times and will continue to do so, I also do not agree with many other things here. But, the fact remains.. at the moment there are plenty of upgrading going on. I say plenty in reference to the fact there used to be NONE, it's still not enough these days but it's moving along as a steady pace.
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Krunch
a bit harsh, but your definitely on the right track. I agree with the general contents of your post. I hope the others will listen up.
no one likes to fly with a crying " I used to be Capt ".. F/O, you accepted the job. as far as I know, no one kidnapped you and forced you into that seat, so Grow up.. in QA as all other airlines, you'll just have to wait your turn.
don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the fact that the airline has moved the goal posts several times and will continue to do so, I also do not agree with many other things here. But, the fact remains.. at the moment there are plenty of upgrading going on. I say plenty in reference to the fact there used to be NONE, it's still not enough these days but it's moving along as a steady pace.
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Krunch
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command
5 y waiting is too long for fastest growing airline in the world its true.
There is good option for F/O who wants fast upgrade : resign and get a job in Wizz Air or Air Asia both give direct left seat if you have time on airbus stay there for 2 y get PIC hours and apply again for QR or Etihad and as a Capt you get villa ,and 50k salary in both airline . It takes 2 y and this 2 y you can take as learning time in EU or in Asia then back to desert for money . Its an option and its possible take it or leave it . I know 8 F/O s which are already packing to do this . Salary in Wizz or Air Asia as Capt is same as what F/O gets now in QR so you will not lose any money only think you will get command and PIC hours . its a win/win situation .
There is good option for F/O who wants fast upgrade : resign and get a job in Wizz Air or Air Asia both give direct left seat if you have time on airbus stay there for 2 y get PIC hours and apply again for QR or Etihad and as a Capt you get villa ,and 50k salary in both airline . It takes 2 y and this 2 y you can take as learning time in EU or in Asia then back to desert for money . Its an option and its possible take it or leave it . I know 8 F/O s which are already packing to do this . Salary in Wizz or Air Asia as Capt is same as what F/O gets now in QR so you will not lose any money only think you will get command and PIC hours . its a win/win situation .
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Yes daviddea, a lot of pilots on the market now. But the market probably will go back up again, sooner or later, and those guys that are leaving now will have two years as pic in 2011. If they stay they might have 2 years as pic in qr in 2015 (assuming they joined 2008).
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Inst
And who the hall wants to be in QR ? Why ? You stay on fleet 8y you have to do the worse sectors with new pilots and you can get demoted for hard landing what can happen during training. In QR Inst are not selected from the best Captains but from the one who accepted it.
Back to the command :
with new DEC which are just being selected in India and Singapore we can expect slow down in command upgrades. if you ask why answer is simple : if QR just hired 45 DEC and need to train them on SIM and online it will take a lot of Inst time to train DEC while they could train command upgrades (cant do 2 things in same time )
Back to the command :
with new DEC which are just being selected in India and Singapore we can expect slow down in command upgrades. if you ask why answer is simple : if QR just hired 45 DEC and need to train them on SIM and online it will take a lot of Inst time to train DEC while they could train command upgrades (cant do 2 things in same time )
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Scheidertrophy,you are right on this point,but on the other hand i can understand the frustration and the the whinging of some well experienced F/O here..,excpecially when they have been told during their interview that their will be upgraded within ..2..years..in Q.R. We ALL known it's a lie!
Thats one of the reason why some of them are leaving.
Thats one of the reason why some of them are leaving.
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correct loc22550,
the situation is as grim as it was many years ago. and as for all this chatter about getting a grade of 3 ( out of 5 ) on your simulator check.. unfortunately all true. I have known of some isolated cases were the guy in the left seat had made a gross error during his/her simulator check and the instructor gave BOTH candidates (Capt. and F/O) a grade of 3. Not a very fair system here in that regard, but never the less thats what we have.
any F/O who have been lied to as mentioned by others in this thread. let it be known that you can expect 5 years regardless of what you have been told, as long as you don't make any mistakes along the way.. don't be fooled, this IS the way it is here.
Poisoned by compromise
Krunch
the situation is as grim as it was many years ago. and as for all this chatter about getting a grade of 3 ( out of 5 ) on your simulator check.. unfortunately all true. I have known of some isolated cases were the guy in the left seat had made a gross error during his/her simulator check and the instructor gave BOTH candidates (Capt. and F/O) a grade of 3. Not a very fair system here in that regard, but never the less thats what we have.
any F/O who have been lied to as mentioned by others in this thread. let it be known that you can expect 5 years regardless of what you have been told, as long as you don't make any mistakes along the way.. don't be fooled, this IS the way it is here.
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Krunch
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The 777 training coordinator said management is looking at getting rid of the grade 3 punishment policy for fleet transfers. It makes alot of sense to do so and takes the pressure of the TRE to not give a 3 when it is earned.
As far as upgrading the only quick fix/miracle is if QR decided to get EMB190 or or started the low cost as quoted by the CEO in Airliner magazine. Qr would need Capt asap and im sure many of the upgrade policys would be revisited.
As far as upgrading the only quick fix/miracle is if QR decided to get EMB190 or or started the low cost as quoted by the CEO in Airliner magazine. Qr would need Capt asap and im sure many of the upgrade policys would be revisited.