Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.


Old 6th Jun 2014, 21:49
  #621 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle East
Posts: 327
Polax, what aircraft has this been on?
metro301 is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2014, 06:05
  #622 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: california
Age: 62
Posts: 317
Mostly conversion from Boeing to A330 or A320.
polax52 is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2014, 12:22
  #623 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle East
Posts: 327
Not a surprise, they were having decent success with type rated guys passing. The program is really not designed for a direct entry capt and a new type.
metro301 is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2014, 12:13
  #624 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth
Posts: 73
info on saudia

Currently I am flying 737ng as fo , I intend to apply as first officer in saudia 777 non type rated position, I hav some questions about the same, please if u guys help ans me
1) the contract offered would be permanent or temporary , do they extend the contract on regular basis.
2) whom to send the job application ?
3) how long does it transition from fo to capt
4) how's the work culture and salary(benefits)
5) life in saudia considerin if you are a muslim
Any advice frm you allwill be highly appreciated.
*Thank you*
Best regards
Flying738ng is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2014, 10:41
  #625 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth
Posts: 73
no reply yet

hello guys
no replies yet??????????
plz help
Flying738ng is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2014, 16:20
  #626 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,441
1) 1st time that they have offered FO positions on the B777, so unknown if they will be extended beyond initial contract, all depends on when local pilots trained in the USA start to return.
2) Its online
3) Ha ha ha.... never, not going to happen.
4) Interesting question as no one knows how the new FO's will be accepted. New hire Captain classes have a failure rate of about 50%, in some cases 100%
5) You might be in for a shock.
mutt is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2014, 19:58
  #627 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: canada
Posts: 49
I'm sure it was asked earlier in the thread just can't remember the answer. How do fleet transitions occur in status?
igig is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2014, 20:20
  #628 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,441
How do fleet transitions occur in status?
For all extents and purposes , they DONT!

B747 Classic grounded, crew moved to A330 or B777.
MD11 grounded, crew moved to A330, B744 or B777.

Anyone joining would have a seniority number of around 1600, as fleet transfer is seniority based, it will take years for someone to be even considered.
mutt is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2014, 13:40
  #629 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth
Posts: 73
thankyou mutt

Thankyou for the information mutt,
Much appreciated
Flying738ng is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2014, 02:07
  #630 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: canada
Posts: 49
So I've gone back and found another thread and read all 30 pages stretching from 2009 to 2013. I've gotten the impression that there has been a deterioration in working conditions and quality of life. This is due to comments like " days of the flying club over", SA "moving in the direction of the other ME airlines", roster changes etc. is there anyone willing to put this into perspective. Thanks.

Also, another poster remarked that the A320 conditions were the worst. Given that this is where I am qualified, could someone expand on this. Is it like the other ME carriers; lots of sectors, night turns around the gulf and turns to the sub-continent?
igig is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2014, 16:05
  #631 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: dubai
Posts: 89

regarding saudia the failure rate almost 70% to 100% no upgrade to command for F/0 training takes 6 to 9 months
mamamia is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2014, 15:42
  #632 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: california
Age: 62
Posts: 317
Lets give an accurate picture:

One particular group

8 starts end of last year; 3 currently checked to line, 1 awaiting completion, 4 training terminations.

The 3 passes were type rated experienced Captains on A330 and B744.

The 1 awaiting completion was a type rated experienced A320 Captain.

The 3 Failures were conversion from Boeing to A320/A330.

1 Resigned during Training.

Other earlier Groups were similar. It looks like guys experienced on type have a reasonable pass rate, but the moral is don't come to Saudia on a different type. They want you to fly like an experienced captain on type and there is no margin for error on that requirement.

Training does take 6 to 10 months. There is no history of significant upgrades of foreign F/O's, so don't expect that.
polax52 is offline  
Old 3rd Jul 2014, 17:57
  #633 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 49
A slightly different perspective.

Training is the hardest part of Saudia, but it can also be quite fun. The training I had on the A330 was the best I've ever had in my career. The trainers had high expectation and as long as you are willing to learn and improve, they'll give you the time. Just don't BS them. If you don't know, just admit and try find the info for the the next session.

Over here, patience and respect brings you many benefits. If you are patient, you'll find many friends here. The Arabs love being a good host. They take pride in that. Just don't abuse it and they will try to accommodate as much as they can.

Mileage varies here. Some love it, some don't. If small things get to your nerve, there are plenty to prick your nerve. Big picture is you're in a foreign land with foreign culture. I looked at it as an adventure. Getting lost driving in the middle of Jeddah with lots of kamikaze drivers was an experience of a lifetime. Sort of missed that feeling.

The payoff is when they give you the star. After that life is beautiful. Saudis are respectful if you show them respect and with a star on the shoulder, they'll give you some latitude. That is as far as my experience so far...
CI54 is offline  
Old 3rd Jul 2014, 18:11
  #634 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Desert
Posts: 28

Absolutely spot on
Sky Hooker is online now  
Old 4th Jul 2014, 06:04
  #635 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 297
Totally agree. Its getting through the first months that's tough.
rdr is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2014, 15:22
  #636 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 61

One thing you will learn in Saudi Arabia is patience. So many pilots arrived for training being used to the 500 knot lifestyle 'back home', of getting things done quickly. I was no different when i landed in JED in 1977. The pilot that met me at the airport was a 18 year veteran. He was a TWA pilot from Kansas City and told me to be patient and be satisfied to get one or two items accomplished on your list each day.
I'm certain the MUTT will concur with this statement. It was not an easy acceptance to the 'new' lifestyle for me but my door was always open to others and many friendships were created, that still exist today with the Saudi's.
I cannot tell you how many Saudi's have called or emailed me after my retirement from Saudia just to say hello and how is life being retired.
you can email me if you need information. Glad to help

[email protected]
jumbocpt is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2014, 16:42
  #637 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 81

Gentlemen hope you re all very fine,

Maybe an interview is coming up and any info about questions,simulator programs,tricks and tips would be very appreciated .....

Thanks to anybody will be helpful
and is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2014, 20:54
  #638 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Andromeda Galaxy
Posts: 8
Never gave Saudia a second thought...

curious, do they have foreign pilots as Captains there or are you stuck on the Right4life?
Cross Wind 320 is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2014, 05:45
  #639 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Eagan, MN
Posts: 338
I came to Saudia a year later than jumbocpt (78)...I concur totally with his input. Many find the environment extremely frustrating...but, if you can take the long view, and not demand immediate results, the Saudis will respond positively. I have found the Saudis to be generous and forthcoming, some more honest than others, but they are not at all efficient (not a cultural strength). I said not efficient, I didn't say stupid, don't make that mistake! They, as we, realize our mutual strengths and weaknesses; once this is realized by expats, things tend to fall into place. One piece of advice...DO NOT put a Saudi on the spot for an immediate answer to a problem...they just DO NOT WORK THAT WAY. Small reminders over time will get the job done; confrontation will get counter-confrontation, and a shut door. As for the best source of advice on current situation (and history), one word: "MUTT".
Semaphore Sam is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2014, 06:25
  #640 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,441
Jumbocpt, Sam Unfortunately it has changed since your departures, the splitting of PSAA from FOT was a bad idea in hindsight, the synergies required to get people trained for the benefit of the airline are just not there anymore. We have seen 5/6 new hires (E170) fail a check ride on the FTD, followed by the 6th leaving line training before the check ride, this used to be unheard of.
The reality for any new hire is that he will be required to memorise everything from day one, without actually getting told what "everything" is!!
Training doesn't exist, check rides begin on day 1......
Some get through easily, for others its pure hell. But strangely enough once people get the star and the money kicks in, they appear to be generally happy

Hope you are enjoying retirement, new DG shows up after EID, so it will be interesting to see where the next 5 year plan brings us, but with a possible fleet expansion of 40 aircraft, the requirement for expats will continue for years to come.

mutt is offline  

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