Qatar Airways extra fuel restriction

[Smirnoff N21]

motivation

QR permanently fails to find the so much necessary, nowadays, motivation which in return simply means less costs cause people will start to act in good faith and maintain high level of commercial awareness. Not worthwhile to circumscribe the commander's authority etc. All this artificially fertilized kindergarden simply vanishes lacking foundation. All simple things are brilliant. QR's business model renders it impossible to run a straight forward business thus attracting all sorts of dubious characters basically abusing their positions for own benefits. It's not an airline it's a selfservice restaurant a virtue of all State owned legacy carriers, Im afraid. Double standards, nepotism and last but not least dilettantism create among ethnic groups unhealthy atmosphere and injustice consequently making fear a normal status quo. All the resulting actions bearing fruits of fear. All this is well known and there's a vast interest to keep that status quo as it assures the power behind the throne. Pros don't last at QR's management and key positions, politicians do. Sooner or later everyone will have to make the choice. It's a waste of time trying to improve anything or to appeal to airmanship, reason etc. as fear simply serves as a foil to the folks on power. Today it's fuel, tomorrow it's gonna be something else the outcome is always the same fooling around, bulling on both sides management and pilots. Carelessness is the killer of every profit and QR is no exception. EK has realized it and builds it's model on profit share thus motivating their staff to be proactive and work towards common interestes.
Don't take it personally take it on the rocks!!!

[Tintin]

Smirnoff you make me like vodka, very well said. apart for that EK profit share thing...

I can see that its a while that you ve been here

[Smirnoff N21]

try it with martini !!!

Yea, I'm not an expert on EK for sure however a strategic move like a profit share represents a significant step forward. I'm just an observer pointing out the deficiencies seen. QR has made me know what I wanna be like and what I'll never be like. Sandpit a good ground school, if I may say so, cause it forces one to make the ultimate choice in this life. I've made mine.
Don't take it personally take it on the rocks!!!

[Black Stain]

then why not maybe writing to your Flight Ops all your problems that you encounter so frequently

Like Smirnoff said SNAM, the Goat problem is power and control related. Suggestions, solutions or even helpful data input has never been encouraged. Pilots are employed to fly exactly as they are told and smile quietly at home on a generous day off. The perfect Goat pilot is mute. In a system based on fear of dismissal it is very unwise to stick your hand up unless you are willing to go all the way.... and maybe have to blow the Catamite King.

(Having said that, a few healthy minds have survived at Flight OPS)

[Black Stain]

Story Time with Mr Stain

In 2002 an ATC mate asked me to think of ways to help with the growing chaos on peak hour radar. A speed control agreement I suggested: "everyone at 300 on descent unless told otherwise". Good idea he said, and took to a formal meeting with Goat Airways management.....

The suggestion wasn't just flatly denied, the Goat reaction was hostile. Who is this controller telling us how we can program our descent speeds? Who is this new pilot that gave him this information? I learnt early on the farm not to try to feed the goats.

Speed control would have improved safety and saved fuel by making the crazy goat airspace more easily managed. These insecure paranoid fools deserve such an awful residence.

[Tintin]

Black Stain, not sure...do you mean lets say .82 transition 300 and 250 below 10000 ??? is so you wont save fuel, but the airspace indeed will be more manageable..back to basic pilot training as well. IOW no self speed management like informing the controller if you slowdown or speed up. Keep the RT to the minimum. Some of us really have to review when you need to read back a clearance when not and what about those who cant stop cutting other to say only useless thing???

When ATC is on peak time no salam aleykum bla bla bla , no sqwaking bla bla bla , no total on board bla bla, if they want it they will tell you when they are ready to copy it . And the most important one before transmit LISTEN..

Smirnoff quote: on EK for sure however a strategic move like a profit share represents a significant step forward

To be a good move you need to have something to share qr still and will for a long time be in the red. So even tomorrow if they tell me they will give me 25% profit sharing of zero. That not what will keep me here ...

[Black Stain]

Minimum landing sequence spacing in Doha is 5nm. 5nm @ 2.5nm/min groundspeed on final equates to 2min. Therefore absolute maximum 30 landings per hour, Doha maybe achieve 25. Anything to simplify and smooth traffic management will increase the achieved landing rate. Holding and extended vectors occur when the required landing rate exceeds the available landing rate. Simple math Tintin.

[Smirnoff N21]

To be a good move you need to have something to share qr still and will for a long time be in the red. So even tomorrow if they tell me they will give me 25% profit sharing of zero. That not what will keep me here ...

Right you are tintin, in this regard it's worth to mention no profit was ever intended. Sole purpose of QR is diversion of petrol dollars into private pockets of mighty once in full swing. Why would you establish a separate LTD registered on cayman islands for each and every airplane separately? Old trick banned long time back everywhere else in the world apart from Qatar. Is a offshore entity really needed for state run company? Only if the ownership must not be disclosed under any circumstances that's why cayman islands cause it's forbidden by constitution to disclose the owners. The best ever protection. Mind you that not a single airplane belongs to QR and that with state guarantees in the background signed by Emir. Otherwise the company would have been established in a different form like PLC and would have been listed on the DSM or even as ADR on NSE. Why to bother and not just to take the cash like the previous emir did, will you ask? Well, that will have implications on the state's status and limit the trade chances worldwide (WTO admittance) besides the idea of promoting Qatar is sold to the proud citizens as the ultimate kick and as democratization to the western world. Internally it'll cause destabilization and possibly turmoils among the locals. As well as prime time on most of leading channels is bought for the purpose of promotion but more important cooperation, a wise move indeed. No one has ever heard of evacuation in Madrid on CNN or sky news etc. All this my friend leads to a very instable status quo and permanent fear and uncertainty resulting in political games, double standards, power struggle and abuse. Here is your answer.
Don't take it personally take it on the rocks!!!

[Tintin]

Black Stain ???? Simple math Tintin.???? Read carefully...Or maybe it`s my bad english, same school then pita, same same. I just said that if you keep 300 kts in descent you wont save fuel that all. A speed around 270kts will do....

Food for tought Smirnoff

[CEO PITA]

Fuel

O really 270 will do ?? How much you will save ? 10kg or 25 kg ? WOW and then litle small man can buy new Ferari .
Yes save save please Qatar is poor country .
Why dont you take 1 T extra and avoid diverting and save 30 000 $ in one day ?
Or you just fly green dot

[CEO PITA]

Fuel

O really 270 kts will do ? How much you will save ? 10kg or 18 kg ?
Please save Qatar is poor country .
Why dont you take 1 T extra and save youre self from diverting and in same time save airline 30 000 $ for diversion ? And you can fly 270 kts or 345 kts or 220 kts dont have to think will i be N 11 for approach and didnt take any extra so better check DMM weather lol lol lol .
What do you do if you ar ein ILS approach and you have unsafe L/G indication ? You do a G/A right till you finish procedure well guess what with minimum fuel you dont have time to do procedure unless you think mr. M Tech pilot can uplift you in the air lol lol !

[Black Stain]

I just said that if you keep 300 kts in descent you wont save fuel that all. A speed around 270kts will do....

Now I am sure Tintin that you understand nothing. No consequence....

[Smirnoff N21]

common sense

Come on fellas we' re all taking about the same flying-wise missing the point though.
It shouldn't be problem to depart with OFP fuel if it makes sense.
It shouldn't be a problem to uplift extra fuel if needed.
Neither should it be a dilemma to add additional 20 min flying to LHR.
The problem is simple there's no trust in manage-abilities of the commanders in QR. That's the reason visual wasn't allowed in USA etc.
Whatever the reason might be, let it be mentality culture etc doesn't make any difference cause it's numbing the usual work-flow let alone violates the legitimacy. By it's designation a commander has been delegated certain executive power including the decision of fuel uplift he/she deems necessary. That doesn't mean the company shouldn't monitor the fuel consumption. Statistics at the end of evaluation period will show the black ship. Then it's a matter of administrative approach the to person concerned. That's the way it's done in the normal world. Again motivate your people using various approaches like emotional administrative financial etc and let them fight for your success. Fighting your own fellas is condemned to fail.
Don't take it personally take it on the rocks.!!!

[Lulu qatar]

Smirinoff

Smirinoff popay arent you the one who didnt want to take off form KIX with Libyan capt when youre FMGC showed -700 Kg ??? Am sure now in A.A you will take fuel the WX at on south china sea can be intresting .

[oddjob1952]

I make it seven!!

5 useless things to a safe pilot:
1. Runway behind you
2. Sky above you
3. Air in the fuel tanks
4. Engineer eating donuts
5. Goat cabin crew
6. Goat management
7. Wife who only claims to swallow

As an engineer one of the most useless things in the cockpit are PILOTS who cann't count and who having put a defect in the book refuse to leave the flt deck and let the engineers get on with their job while we also eat donuts at the same time and drink tea. This is due to staff shortage and the amount of work we have to eat and drink on the GO.

[Smirnoff N21]

LQ KIX is a long flight with approximately 2.5 K reserve fuel alone, if my memory serves me right. It's unwise to insist on extra fuel on such a long flight cause as mentioned here before you won't fall out of the sky and have about 13 hours to decide what to do or where to go. Other than that I won't endure about rumors or speculations to do the dirty job for you. Fight your fight with the person concerned during training meetings where it should be done. Have at least so much balls my friend.
Don't take it personally take it on the rocks!!!

[Tintin]

Black Stain quote

Now I am sure Tintin that you understand nothing. No consequence....

Ah really try that next time put zero(0) as a cost index and tell me what your speed in descent ...270kts. To have a speed of 300kts you need around a cost index of 170.

Back to basic man, more speed more drag, do you want me to send you some book?

[Ronaldo 330]

270-300

Why you guys talking about it at all its 30kts difference how much is saving ?
Its simple Capt duty is to do a safe flight mean to have fuel for his flight and for anything what can unexpected burn more and C. Tech job is to writte letters and there is a waste bin in Tech so just put it there and forget it and go on with taking fuel .
Panadol is right about it and crazy lulu has a point as well .
Today oil is 110 and going down check CNN and enjoj full wings .

[Black Stain]

Yawn.....

Tintin, my given ATC example highlighted the futility of good ideas in Qatar, and was related to ATC airspace management not airline fuel economy; however having said that, speed control will also save an airline fuel and for that reason I entertained your simple question with a simple answer. And although you will probably always remain ignorant, the truth remains for others to see.

Yes a Cost Index zero descent will save fuel, about 40-50kg compared to Cost Index 30. However, every A320 holding pattern will cost an airline approximately 300kg. Given the previously stated problems at Doha Radar, an agreement between ATC and the Goat that will reduce ATC workload, improve efficiency and increase the achieved landing rate would save much more. And enhance safety? Is this too difficult for you to imagine Tintin?

Note: Professor Tintin will now say he rarely gets a pattern in Doha. True, he gets vectored for 30 miles instead. This point highlights the problem. With only one controller available, holding patterns are difficult to manage. Vectoring the indians in a wide arc around the wagons is easier to manage visually by a lone controller.

[Tintin]

Cmon

First you said: Speed control would have improved safety and saved fuel ...notice the last part?????

Then I reply: do you mean lets say .82 transition 300 and 250 below 10000 ??? is so you wont save fuel, but the airspace indeed will be more manageable. And also ad that you where right with the rest

Then thats your reply?? Tintin, my given ATC example highlighted the futility of good ideas in Qatar, and was related to ATC airspace management not airline fuel economy..again notice the last part..

Sorry Im just a ignorant who cant read
Never mind