Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged
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Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged
I'm not talking about losing all your seniority but usually, once you become captain, you go back in the captain seniority list and then go up in that list.. Like it happened to us in USA, you enter a new list behind all the captains...
I am sure, only in flydubai there is such a thing believe me
I am sure, only in flydubai there is such a thing believe me
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Vortac,
It may seem strange to you but at most Ex-Pat airlines that is exactly what happens. An FO who upgrades will then join the bottom of the seniority list as a Captain as he has changed positions. I have worked at 2 previous ExPat jobs and seniority did not count for much but in the few instances it was utilized if an FO upgraded he would then become the bottom level Captain. This is different than a US seniority system which Fly Dubai seems to be using, the difference here being no US carrier hires DECs. The system is what it is however and new joiners will have to realize this and look at their FOs as being senior to them in seniority. It reminds me of the old adage "Don't piss your Copilot off as someday he will be your Chief Pilot."
It may seem strange to you but at most Ex-Pat airlines that is exactly what happens. An FO who upgrades will then join the bottom of the seniority list as a Captain as he has changed positions. I have worked at 2 previous ExPat jobs and seniority did not count for much but in the few instances it was utilized if an FO upgraded he would then become the bottom level Captain. This is different than a US seniority system which Fly Dubai seems to be using, the difference here being no US carrier hires DECs. The system is what it is however and new joiners will have to realize this and look at their FOs as being senior to them in seniority. It reminds me of the old adage "Don't piss your Copilot off as someday he will be your Chief Pilot."
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Wyoming and Jack,
Thanx, I totally understand now, I got confused there for a second.
Yes, in US once an FO upgrades he becomes the most junior CA, unless a more junior FO upgrades before due to meeting total time requirements or jet time requirements before the other guy/gal.
Everybody keeps their seniority slot in US, regardless of seat. Now upgrades will come to whoever has the seniority AND meets the minimum requirements first, once they're both captains, everything else they bid for (vacation, schedules...) is based on their original seniority date (date of hire or initial hire check ride usually).
Not too sure how different it is in FD...
Thanx, I totally understand now, I got confused there for a second.
Yes, in US once an FO upgrades he becomes the most junior CA, unless a more junior FO upgrades before due to meeting total time requirements or jet time requirements before the other guy/gal.
Everybody keeps their seniority slot in US, regardless of seat. Now upgrades will come to whoever has the seniority AND meets the minimum requirements first, once they're both captains, everything else they bid for (vacation, schedules...) is based on their original seniority date (date of hire or initial hire check ride usually).
Not too sure how different it is in FD...
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Jack...what airline in the US would that be???? When your captain number comes up you can defer or upgrade. By defering you increase the value of your seniority number as a captain at a later time...you don't drop to the bottom of the captains list! Hence, you can be a senior FO one day and be a senior captain the next as in FD. Further, what airline in the US hires DECs?? Sorry mate but your logic flawed. I am not aware of any airline in the US where you loose relative seniorty by upgrading. So be careful in painting with such a broad brush...perhaps in some fractional programs that may be the case, but no legacy airline will practrice what you speak.
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Jack,
Your comment shows what kind of experience you have. How can you say something you have no clue about it. I understand that you might not agree. But to say that no airline does it that way is having no clue. Why do we as a pilots want to judge everything for what we think things should be. Change your paradigma, and adapt. Period..
Your comment shows what kind of experience you have. How can you say something you have no clue about it. I understand that you might not agree. But to say that no airline does it that way is having no clue. Why do we as a pilots want to judge everything for what we think things should be. Change your paradigma, and adapt. Period..
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Silly rule.
Jack, please 
I think its a silly rule to take DEC
but I understand why an airline like FZ has to do it.
This is a very fair and transparent way of doing things by FZ. But you both want to come as DEC and cut in line before the Fo's who joined long before you
There are plenty of excellent Fo's in the company. Many come from previous commands on CRJ, ERJ, ATR, Dash with training backgrounds. There's even a fair number of TRI and TRE's among them. All they need is 6 months to settle in to the 73 and maybe an additional 6 months to get some route structure experience.
I think its a silly rule to take DEC
but I understand why an airline like FZ has to do it.This is a very fair and transparent way of doing things by FZ. But you both want to come as DEC and cut in line before the Fo's who joined long before you
There are plenty of excellent Fo's in the company. Many come from previous commands on CRJ, ERJ, ATR, Dash with training backgrounds. There's even a fair number of TRI and TRE's among them. All they need is 6 months to settle in to the 73 and maybe an additional 6 months to get some route structure experience.
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Moaning DECs.....
Jack,
Assuming you are an FZ pilot.... When you interviewed, it was explained to you that you would join the master seniority list and retain that for your employment at FZ. It was also explained to you when you pulled your number out of the shoe box if more than one of you joined on the same day. If it wasn't, I can guarantee you were given enough opportunity to ask the question. You clearly are able to post on this forum as well so don't pretend you were going in with your eyes open....... It's is very public knowledge how seniority is implemented at FZ.
Bottom line, if you sign the contract, stop moaning..... If I had a dirham for every DEC that is moaning about their PBS roster AND hasn't bothered to sit down for more than 10 minutes to try and understand PBS, I'd be retired!
This is getting old and very boring now!
Assuming you are an FZ pilot.... When you interviewed, it was explained to you that you would join the master seniority list and retain that for your employment at FZ. It was also explained to you when you pulled your number out of the shoe box if more than one of you joined on the same day. If it wasn't, I can guarantee you were given enough opportunity to ask the question. You clearly are able to post on this forum as well so don't pretend you were going in with your eyes open....... It's is very public knowledge how seniority is implemented at FZ.
Bottom line, if you sign the contract, stop moaning..... If I had a dirham for every DEC that is moaning about their PBS roster AND hasn't bothered to sit down for more than 10 minutes to try and understand PBS, I'd be retired!
This is getting old and very boring now!
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FlyDubai announce profit for trading year 2013
https://www.zawya.com/story/flydubai...0140303081834/
However, it's not all good news because the announced AED 222.8 million profit figure has not surpassed the threshold required to trigger a bonus payment for the FZ staff (wherein the threshold for that was set, in March 2013, at AED 330 million).
However, it's not all good news because the announced AED 222.8 million profit figure has not surpassed the threshold required to trigger a bonus payment for the FZ staff (wherein the threshold for that was set, in March 2013, at AED 330 million).
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I was only pointing out that Flydubai, unlike any major company, will always depend on expats DEC because it has a different structure and is also growing so fast that it will never cope with the need of captain even if they had their own cadet program, here is the necessity to adjust the seniority issue accordingly. In many US big airlines this system is perfect because everybody is joining as a copilot then becomes experienced and eventually becomes captain retaining his seniority, flydubai is a place where one DEC joins then instead of becoming more senior is going backwards when most of the FO's upgrade to cpt.
Where I work in Asia for example, the seniority works like in europe... (lufthansa, british etc etc) You join as a cadet then you become first officer but when you become captain you pass in the captains list and you go back...In my personal opinion this is the way it should be but we are all different .... I'm not saying that I'm right, I was just listening to some complaints of some friends after they introduced the PBS there..
Where I work in Asia for example, the seniority works like in europe... (lufthansa, british etc etc) You join as a cadet then you become first officer but when you become captain you pass in the captains list and you go back...In my personal opinion this is the way it should be but we are all different .... I'm not saying that I'm right, I was just listening to some complaints of some friends after they introduced the PBS there..
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Well the principle in FlyDubai is that your loyalty (i.e. your longevity of service and therein assistance with helping to build the company) is rewarded via your Seniority Number - regardless of which seat you happen to occupy, it's that simple!
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Probably been asked already
Just a quick one does anyone have an accurate and up to date pay scale for FO's at FlyDubai, thinking of applying but want to know more. If there is flight pay is it hourly or is it a daily rate? Already rated on the NG with 2000 hours. Also what other benefits are included and what is estimated/realistic take home each year?
Thank you
Tom
Thank you
Tom
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tomgee88: wrt "Probably been asked already"
Indeed it has, and if you could be bothered to look (even just one page back) you'd see the answer to much of what you ask (here) and a trawl further back through the pages would also fill in the gaps wrt additional elements of the package. Some various other aspects are also listed on flydubai's own website (here).
Wrt you specific question regarding 'Flight Duty Pay'. It is paid hourly and is based upon 'block' hours (F/O's get 110 AED per block hour).
I would hazard a guess that the annual take-home salary for an FZ F/O (based upon doing 80 block hours per month for 10½ months... remembering that in each year you'd have 1½ months of leave to take) would be in the region of: 460,800 AED / $125,456 USD / €91,064 EUR / £74,993 GBP, and one also needs to consider that there is no taxation of ones income within the UAE.
Indeed it has, and if you could be bothered to look (even just one page back) you'd see the answer to much of what you ask (here) and a trawl further back through the pages would also fill in the gaps wrt additional elements of the package. Some various other aspects are also listed on flydubai's own website (here).
Wrt you specific question regarding 'Flight Duty Pay'. It is paid hourly and is based upon 'block' hours (F/O's get 110 AED per block hour).
I would hazard a guess that the annual take-home salary for an FZ F/O (based upon doing 80 block hours per month for 10½ months... remembering that in each year you'd have 1½ months of leave to take) would be in the region of: 460,800 AED / $125,456 USD / €91,064 EUR / £74,993 GBP, and one also needs to consider that there is no taxation of ones income within the UAE.
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Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged
Thank you for your response! Are FO's paid a salary as in 12 months of year or is it like FR where you are paid only when you work?
Thanks again
Kindest Regards
Tom
Thanks again
Kindest Regards
Tom
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Tom,
Flight Duty Pay is also paid monthly, albeit 'monthly in arrears' (i.e. any flight duty pay one might have earned during the month of, say, March, would be included as part of ones Salary & Allowances payment that would be made by flydubai on the 26th April).
- Basic Salary
- Accommodation Allowance
- Transport Allowance
Flight Duty Pay is also paid monthly, albeit 'monthly in arrears' (i.e. any flight duty pay one might have earned during the month of, say, March, would be included as part of ones Salary & Allowances payment that would be made by flydubai on the 26th April).
short flights long nights
No wonder this Industry is in the state it is, when people are accepting as 'normal' that they may not get paid each month.. We are all doomed.
. We are all doomed.
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Thank you and I couldn't agree more it's a terrible state to be in but it is reality for many in the likes of certain European airlines which is why I am looking at all
options now that my hours are finally starting to build.
Thank you for your help today.
options now that my hours are finally starting to build.
Thank you for your help today.
Last edited by beachbum88; 3rd Mar 2014 at 12:52.
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Jack
I couldn't agree more with your last post.
It would be more constructive all those trying to tell you off, if they would at least appreciate that a DEC is a proven, and experienced aviator, and at least be given the opportunity to maintain his/her CAPTAIN seniority at the time of joining rather than seeing him/herself going backwards, when a non type rated FO from the ATR/SAAB/DASH 7, 8, 9, or whatever upgrades.(no offense to anyone
)
In any case is a pointless discussion. Of course people know when they sign what they sign for, a reminder is unnecessary. It would have been better if more consideration was given to those doing the donkey work, rather than advice and compassion.
I couldn't agree more with your last post.
It would be more constructive all those trying to tell you off, if they would at least appreciate that a DEC is a proven, and experienced aviator, and at least be given the opportunity to maintain his/her CAPTAIN seniority at the time of joining rather than seeing him/herself going backwards, when a non type rated FO from the ATR/SAAB/DASH 7, 8, 9, or whatever upgrades.(no offense to anyone
)In any case is a pointless discussion. Of course people know when they sign what they sign for, a reminder is unnecessary. It would have been better if more consideration was given to those doing the donkey work, rather than advice and compassion.