Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged
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Typical roster
I will just give the facts. The norm is about 70-75hrs per month with minimum days off. You are not rewarded for picking up trips on your days off with subsequent extra days. You cannot exceed 85 hours per month by trip trades, and at 850 annual hours you are also stopped from all trip trading. You can request 2 days off each month, although not guaranteed due to seniority and they cannot be grouped at end/start of each month. Fatiguing duties have been a major focus, but I hear fewer complaints on the line. Preferential bidding has been confirmed, but no date given.
Can anyone else advise on the unplanned expansion? I suspect due to the Afgan cargo company collapse, but hearsay is a dangerous thing.
Can anyone else advise on the unplanned expansion? I suspect due to the Afgan cargo company collapse, but hearsay is a dangerous thing.
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EK may be better long-term, but long time for command probably 7 years now, unless I get in DEC but little chance with no wide body or training experience. LCC in Europe is often 4 sectors with a lot of repetitive rotations, which causes extreme boredom and fatigue. Both EK and EY I hear do not even allow any personal electronic devices on the flight deck (Ipads etc) and if my source is correct EY do not even allow any reading material other than ops manuals or charts.
The package offered with FlyDubai is not among the best. The attraction for me is living in DXB and having good schools for the kids. In other words, I'd probably rather do LCC 2 sector days/nights in the ME rather than LCC 4 sector days in Europe, although the pension is better in Europe.
Ref leave, do the 42 days attract any wrap around days? So if you book say 14 days, do you get only 14 days or 14 days + your normal days offs either end?
The package offered with FlyDubai is not among the best. The attraction for me is living in DXB and having good schools for the kids. In other words, I'd probably rather do LCC 2 sector days/nights in the ME rather than LCC 4 sector days in Europe, although the pension is better in Europe.
Ref leave, do the 42 days attract any wrap around days? So if you book say 14 days, do you get only 14 days or 14 days + your normal days offs either end?
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EY have narrow bodies (A320), there are many far east carriers with better packages. Air Arabia is better, even Qatar has narrow bodies and the package is better.
There are benefits at flydubai, mostly being the crew that we fly with. Great group! Hopefully, management will soon do something to prevent attrition and attract quality new pilots. The current trend is not a good indicator of that however. I hope things change.
Here's how I see what could be done to change the culture:
Split the flight crew from the rest of the employee group from an HR standpoint. There is no need to treat pilots like the entire employee group. If the pilot group needs a pay raise to be competitive with the marketplace, or to cope with operations that are more challenging than other airlines, it shouldn't have to wait for the whole employee group getting a pay raise. Likewise, quality of life should not be compared to office workers, as we are in a different operating arena with different responsibilities.
Related to pay, develop a yearly rate that is transparent to all so pilots and their families can make plans, and rates are not arbitrary. This would be the easiest way to abolish the current pay scale structure which really doesn't make sense. If cost of living goes up, there should be a raise tied to this at year end, and can be evaluated by HR comparing basic necessities such as milk, fuel, education and housing year on year.
Allow pilots more control over the roster. This can be done by line bidding, PBS, more RDO selections, less restriction on trading parameters, or a combination of these. Also, on the subject of rosters, stop violating the language of OMA section 7 with regard to rostering flights with rest periods of 18-30 hours.
Related to rosters and dove-tailing with safety/security, allow folks that fly into danger zones to be additionally compensated for this flying. Simultaneously, allow for specific bidding of these flights. I know there are plenty of pilots willing to fly these trips for the money, and it would empower the pilot group and remove animosity from the people not comfortable with these flights. We would all have to have some flexibility for standbys, but if the above were put in place, I'm sure that leeway would be much easier to come.
Develop a structured, transparent, scheduled and honest communication means from both Flight Operations and Safety. The structure for this is just about in place with CP meetings and the reports available on EFOS, so it would only be a matter of changing the culture a bit. Safety needs to become a pillar, and should err on the conservative side - we should lead the region, not be reactionary.
Develop the upgrade program to the required crew levels by having a pipeline of qualified candidates ready for training. Pool applicants if necessary, but have them ready to start training to avoid the need for DECs. The whole process should be streamlined through he use of an upgrade coordinator, which could come from the FO ranks (I'm sure someone would gladly volunteer to assist his fellow pilots, and of course himself in the process).
These are only a few ideas that have been formed into formal suggestions. Even if only a couple came about, it would be a good spin of the rudder away from the falls (meaning a step in the right direction). There are certainly more, but these are my best idea on how to start changing the culture and truly make flydubai the "Southwest of the Middle East".
I only post this in an effort to help and perhaps show some of the ideas guys from the line are tossing around in the flight deck.
Randy
There are benefits at flydubai, mostly being the crew that we fly with. Great group! Hopefully, management will soon do something to prevent attrition and attract quality new pilots. The current trend is not a good indicator of that however. I hope things change.
Here's how I see what could be done to change the culture:
Split the flight crew from the rest of the employee group from an HR standpoint. There is no need to treat pilots like the entire employee group. If the pilot group needs a pay raise to be competitive with the marketplace, or to cope with operations that are more challenging than other airlines, it shouldn't have to wait for the whole employee group getting a pay raise. Likewise, quality of life should not be compared to office workers, as we are in a different operating arena with different responsibilities.
Related to pay, develop a yearly rate that is transparent to all so pilots and their families can make plans, and rates are not arbitrary. This would be the easiest way to abolish the current pay scale structure which really doesn't make sense. If cost of living goes up, there should be a raise tied to this at year end, and can be evaluated by HR comparing basic necessities such as milk, fuel, education and housing year on year.
Allow pilots more control over the roster. This can be done by line bidding, PBS, more RDO selections, less restriction on trading parameters, or a combination of these. Also, on the subject of rosters, stop violating the language of OMA section 7 with regard to rostering flights with rest periods of 18-30 hours.
Related to rosters and dove-tailing with safety/security, allow folks that fly into danger zones to be additionally compensated for this flying. Simultaneously, allow for specific bidding of these flights. I know there are plenty of pilots willing to fly these trips for the money, and it would empower the pilot group and remove animosity from the people not comfortable with these flights. We would all have to have some flexibility for standbys, but if the above were put in place, I'm sure that leeway would be much easier to come.
Develop a structured, transparent, scheduled and honest communication means from both Flight Operations and Safety. The structure for this is just about in place with CP meetings and the reports available on EFOS, so it would only be a matter of changing the culture a bit. Safety needs to become a pillar, and should err on the conservative side - we should lead the region, not be reactionary.
Develop the upgrade program to the required crew levels by having a pipeline of qualified candidates ready for training. Pool applicants if necessary, but have them ready to start training to avoid the need for DECs. The whole process should be streamlined through he use of an upgrade coordinator, which could come from the FO ranks (I'm sure someone would gladly volunteer to assist his fellow pilots, and of course himself in the process).
These are only a few ideas that have been formed into formal suggestions. Even if only a couple came about, it would be a good spin of the rudder away from the falls (meaning a step in the right direction). There are certainly more, but these are my best idea on how to start changing the culture and truly make flydubai the "Southwest of the Middle East".
I only post this in an effort to help and perhaps show some of the ideas guys from the line are tossing around in the flight deck.
Randy
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FZs Black-Ops Dept has issued a memo, regarding flights into and out of DAMascus, stating that the safety & security of such flights hinges on the guy at the airport saying that it's safe. This is the same guy that does flydubai's handling at that airport, though suggestions about a "conflict of interest" are being strongly denied.
The Black-Ops Dept memo also mentions 'other security advisors', though not one of those 'other' sources has ever been named or divulged. Aircrew must trust to the integrity & professionalism of the Black-Ops Dept that these 'other sources' are reliable enough to stake their life upon the outcome.
Black-Ops Dept assures that DAMascus International Airport is nowhere near any of the fighting, but their memo does not comment on what is in place to stop the Free Syrian Army from coming within firing range of an aircraft and launching one off?!
Parking on the ramp in DAMascus is not without risk, but being attacked whilst on the approach or departure is what worries aircrews the most. It is 100% certain that the Black-Ops Dept is unable to predict or prevent any such attack.
News channels are reporting that the Free Syrian Army does have surface to air missiles - scroll to 1' 42"
The Black-Ops Dept memo also mentions 'other security advisors', though not one of those 'other' sources has ever been named or divulged. Aircrew must trust to the integrity & professionalism of the Black-Ops Dept that these 'other sources' are reliable enough to stake their life upon the outcome.
Black-Ops Dept assures that DAMascus International Airport is nowhere near any of the fighting, but their memo does not comment on what is in place to stop the Free Syrian Army from coming within firing range of an aircraft and launching one off?!
Parking on the ramp in DAMascus is not without risk, but being attacked whilst on the approach or departure is what worries aircrews the most. It is 100% certain that the Black-Ops Dept is unable to predict or prevent any such attack.
News channels are reporting that the Free Syrian Army does have surface to air missiles - scroll to 1' 42"
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RandyBMC
I'm sure the irony is not lost on you that the chasm between the utopia you envisage and the cultural environment that we find ourselves in, is the very same that causes you - with some frustration I imagine - to make these suggestions on a forum such as this, instead of delivering them into the open arms of the Company.
No need to go as high as God's ears Flat Cap, mere mortals could fix this.
Until then, I suppose the attrition meetings will continue.
Last one out - don't forget to shut the door.
I'm sure the irony is not lost on you that the chasm between the utopia you envisage and the cultural environment that we find ourselves in, is the very same that causes you - with some frustration I imagine - to make these suggestions on a forum such as this, instead of delivering them into the open arms of the Company.
No need to go as high as God's ears Flat Cap, mere mortals could fix this.
Until then, I suppose the attrition meetings will continue.
Last one out - don't forget to shut the door.
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Ali,
I clearly read the irony, partial sarcasm, but wanted to say this those who might miss it: No pilot at flydubai has VOLUNTEERED more of his time than Randy to make this place better for all here now and those that follow after most of us eventually leave. Yes, the ACP has tried as well from the inside to change things, but Randy's efforts are pretty much unpaid on his days off compiling all such complaints as you could imagine from every pilot that wanted to participate in a survey on what NEEDs to be improved and would be nice to have improved. All of this information is there for the company, no one is hiding it from them lol! But I agree, why take action when all the middle managers can continue to have nice chats about why the pilots complain so much. Its easier to simply do nothing but have more meetings, and a picnic where you ask your employees to VOLUNTEER more time and personal resource because the company is too cheap to get it catered properly.
I clearly read the irony, partial sarcasm, but wanted to say this those who might miss it: No pilot at flydubai has VOLUNTEERED more of his time than Randy to make this place better for all here now and those that follow after most of us eventually leave. Yes, the ACP has tried as well from the inside to change things, but Randy's efforts are pretty much unpaid on his days off compiling all such complaints as you could imagine from every pilot that wanted to participate in a survey on what NEEDs to be improved and would be nice to have improved. All of this information is there for the company, no one is hiding it from them lol! But I agree, why take action when all the middle managers can continue to have nice chats about why the pilots complain so much. Its easier to simply do nothing but have more meetings, and a picnic where you ask your employees to VOLUNTEER more time and personal resource because the company is too cheap to get it catered properly.
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Thanks for the effort RandyBMC
I applaud your efforts to help make some changes, and I can imagine your great frustration at these things falling on deaf ears. Starting at the end of this year there will be larger numbers of crew who will be out of their bond period and the true haemorrhaging will begin. Prior to that time the EK transfer was a good option even with bond repayment, however more and more guys now realize that joining the back of the queue at EK at this point would not serve their career as it would have last year. Anyone with recall rights should consider their fate here if they give up those options, an escape to a home based carrier with perks is always a better option than the uncertainty here.
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Does anyone know if they will get really short of FO's when the bonds expire I have 1200TT and 900 737NG really want to get to DXB so would love to work here , anyone know the chances of me getting in below the minimum...?
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IMHO the company knows that more pilots will be heading towards the ME. One has to look into the European economic crisis, the collapse of airlines every month and the job security you can have in the ME. Out of that pool of pilots some will end up in FZ.
For as long as the company can man the airplanes then I doubt if we could expect any improvements. The good thing is that there is the will, at least as it is expressed in the Chief pilot meetings, for things to change.
For as long as the company can man the airplanes then I doubt if we could expect any improvements. The good thing is that there is the will, at least as it is expressed in the Chief pilot meetings, for things to change.
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It's a far easier thing to have weekly meetings all about pilot attrition and chat earnestly over coffee and baklava than actually do something, if you do something it might be the the wrong something, or worse yet actually cost something. Once of course you have set aside the hidden cost of the endless Forth Bridge exercise of training new guys as the attrition rate cranks up passed 12% pa and moves ever closer to 15% pa, it is far far easier to do fcek all, and mutter darkly about the outrageous salaries and the generous number of days-off of the prima-donna FZ pilots. As we know this year is all about showing that profit nothing else matters far too many careers and bonuses hinge on it.
Randy is doing a sterling job and the flat cap is doffed in salute and respect of a thankless and Promethean job undertaken with great resolution and professionalism. I commend him.
Your right Ali Ronn, mere mortals could easily do the resolve it, not at all rocket science get the life-style right get the pay right and you have a happy workforce and attrition of 2 or 3%. Unfortunately there are none so deaf as those the do not wish too hear, and none so blind as those that do wish to see. This seems cover most anyone with any wasta within the company. Divine intervention may well be required. I expect no change until we start parking aeroplanes, which will probably require no more 737 operator collapses anywhere in the world for about 6 months.
Yours resignedly
F-C
PS. Just read the latest Damascus "security" brief. So a group that has declared a credible threat against civilian aircraft, has the motivation, skills, equipment and infrastructure to deliver on that threat in a "war zone", sorry "area of conflict" oops no that was last week "area of disagreement"
that's the one, is in fact not threat to to aviation at all! The risk is tolerable and everyone promises, scout's honour not to shoot anyone, so long as the DAM station manager says its ok. Obviously the man's a security genius with 20/20 foresight and far better judge of the situation than say ohh the FCO?. 
Randy is doing a sterling job and the flat cap is doffed in salute and respect of a thankless and Promethean job undertaken with great resolution and professionalism. I commend him.
Your right Ali Ronn, mere mortals could easily do the resolve it, not at all rocket science get the life-style right get the pay right and you have a happy workforce and attrition of 2 or 3%. Unfortunately there are none so deaf as those the do not wish too hear, and none so blind as those that do wish to see. This seems cover most anyone with any wasta within the company. Divine intervention may well be required. I expect no change until we start parking aeroplanes, which will probably require no more 737 operator collapses anywhere in the world for about 6 months.
Yours resignedly
F-C
PS. Just read the latest Damascus "security" brief. So a group that has declared a credible threat against civilian aircraft, has the motivation, skills, equipment and infrastructure to deliver on that threat in a "war zone", sorry "area of conflict" oops no that was last week "area of disagreement"
that's the one, is in fact not threat to to aviation at all! The risk is tolerable and everyone promises, scout's honour not to shoot anyone, so long as the DAM station manager says its ok. Obviously the man's a security genius with 20/20 foresight and far better judge of the situation than say ohh the FCO?.
Last edited by Flat Cap; 7th Sep 2012 at 15:50.
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FlyDubai Screening
I am scheduled for a screening shortly at CTC for FD B737 Captain.Can someone please help me out in giving some information in detail regarding the process and what to generally expect.I apologize if this has been covered before.
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Flights to Afghanistan
DucknDive said: Looking back I would never have signed a 3 year bond if I knew what I know now
I may join FlyDubai, what do you know that will change your decision regarding flights to Afghanistan ?
Thanks DucknDive
I may join FlyDubai, what do you know that will change your decision regarding flights to Afghanistan ?
Thanks DucknDive
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Cmc you're HIRED!
Just sign here! Preferably in blood. 3 years no pro-rate, thats all, so don't say we didn't tell you the truth. When we thought everyone had access to newspapers, you come along. Great! Do you have anyone else in your family that can fly? Or just from your town will do?
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Cmc you're HIRED
Alaska737, that was not my question.
There is a bond. I know the written conditions. Let the decision on me.
I would like to know what is not written...
The concerned post and my question was about Afghanistan flights. It seems there is some dangerousity about the operations. At least, it is what I have understood.
Give me some facts. That is what I need to take a good (CRM?) decision.
Your opinion is valuable, but again let the decision on me.
Thank you.
There is a bond. I know the written conditions. Let the decision on me.
I would like to know what is not written...
The concerned post and my question was about Afghanistan flights. It seems there is some dangerousity about the operations. At least, it is what I have understood.
Give me some facts. That is what I need to take a good (CRM?) decision.
Your opinion is valuable, but again let the decision on me.
Thank you.
Last edited by cmcjma; 15th Sep 2012 at 08:52.
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Cmcjma, here is your answer. Hot off the press (as of 15th Sept 2012)...... Can't get anymore current news than this. Sorry.
BBC News - Camp Bastion assault: Two US marines die in 'Taliban revenge'
BBC News - Camp Bastion assault: Two US marines die in 'Taliban revenge'
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cmcjma
Not sure what it is you're actually asking!
As for the 'dangerousity' of the Afghanistan routes, just read the news papers and you will see that most of the destinations that FZ operates into, are in fact military installations that are being attacked on a regular basis, and subsequently, people are being killed...... thats pretty dangerousity to me.
You don't need CRM to help make that decision, just common sense. Leave it to the military pilots and stick to the regular fee paying passengers.... it makes life hell of a lot easier.
One more thing, FZ doesn't even have the foresight to compensate it's pilots for the added risk either.....
As for the 'dangerousity' of the Afghanistan routes, just read the news papers and you will see that most of the destinations that FZ operates into, are in fact military installations that are being attacked on a regular basis, and subsequently, people are being killed...... thats pretty dangerousity to me.
You don't need CRM to help make that decision, just common sense. Leave it to the military pilots and stick to the regular fee paying passengers.... it makes life hell of a lot easier.
One more thing, FZ doesn't even have the foresight to compensate it's pilots for the added risk either.....