Ek Airbus upgrades delays
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Ek Airbus upgrades delays
Latest rumors is that because they are very short of FOs in Airbus fleet all the upgrades from June will be delayed........ 
What a crap ........
Flare
What a crap ........
Flare
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The shortage of FO's on the Airbus fleet is indeed fact, which will begin to show on the line in a month or two. The only question is, how will the company deal with it? For example, Nagoyas went with 2 Captains and 1 FO and I suspect that will start again soon.
What else could they do? Well if past policy is any indication, DEC's and more factored flying. Both of which were disasters (policy-wise) but no doubt both will happen again.
The only constant at EK is the lack of forethought and planning. Just imagine if the A380's had actually turned up on schedule?
I have no doubt that pilots will suffer..... the only question is how. They are so clever at deception and manipulation that I'm sure they have other devious if not illegal tactics to throw at us in an attempt to cover up their incompetence.
So the cycle starts all over again just when things started to look better for FO's.
1. Potential upgrade delays for no reason other than lack of planning.
2. A crisis in accomodation. And who is going to get the few available villas? Certainly not the FO's already here or about to join. The villas will be required for the DEC's. DEC's do not have to accept unsuitable accomodations because the company knows they just won't show up if they are displeased.
It just boggles my mind why EK did not allow for a normal career progression for its pilots. It affects everything. Recruitment, salary, lifestyle, accomodation, overall contentment, respect, schedules........ yet the inequities of differing hiring schemes and upgrades makes suitable applicants reconsider employment at EK and some of those already here feel trapped.
Hire FO's, train them to EK standard and then upgrade them when their turn comes. It is frickin simple !! A pilot's life would get better each year, his wage would increase, his accomodation entitlement improves and his job satisfaction increases accordingly.
What else could they do? Well if past policy is any indication, DEC's and more factored flying. Both of which were disasters (policy-wise) but no doubt both will happen again.
The only constant at EK is the lack of forethought and planning. Just imagine if the A380's had actually turned up on schedule?
I have no doubt that pilots will suffer..... the only question is how. They are so clever at deception and manipulation that I'm sure they have other devious if not illegal tactics to throw at us in an attempt to cover up their incompetence.
So the cycle starts all over again just when things started to look better for FO's.
1. Potential upgrade delays for no reason other than lack of planning.
2. A crisis in accomodation. And who is going to get the few available villas? Certainly not the FO's already here or about to join. The villas will be required for the DEC's. DEC's do not have to accept unsuitable accomodations because the company knows they just won't show up if they are displeased.
It just boggles my mind why EK did not allow for a normal career progression for its pilots. It affects everything. Recruitment, salary, lifestyle, accomodation, overall contentment, respect, schedules........ yet the inequities of differing hiring schemes and upgrades makes suitable applicants reconsider employment at EK and some of those already here feel trapped.
Hire FO's, train them to EK standard and then upgrade them when their turn comes. It is frickin simple !! A pilot's life would get better each year, his wage would increase, his accomodation entitlement improves and his job satisfaction increases accordingly.
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The muppets show
From june delays will be at least 2 months and more...........
this is due to the "dynamic" and constant change of the operational plan......
"the Upgrade Plan has to be modified in the short term, in order to supply sufficient FO's to fulfill the Operating Plan"
I don't understand English very well but if I am not wrong it means that they f@Kd again with the numbers.............
"This situation is resolved in the medium term by adding additional recruitment on the Fleet"
Again............. more recruitment..............
I think that even Le cirque Quidan would pay a lot of money to have these clowns in their show..................
What to say...............
I have no words that can explain what I feel about this management
this is due to the "dynamic" and constant change of the operational plan......
"the Upgrade Plan has to be modified in the short term, in order to supply sufficient FO's to fulfill the Operating Plan"
I don't understand English very well but if I am not wrong it means that they f@Kd again with the numbers.............
"This situation is resolved in the medium term by adding additional recruitment on the Fleet"
Again............. more recruitment..............
I think that even Le cirque Quidan would pay a lot of money to have these clowns in their show..................
What to say...............
I have no words that can explain what I feel about this management
Hang on a minute the last airbus delivery was more than 2 years ago and you are saying they are short of crew on it. It has to be a deliberate ploy to get direct entry Captains and f/os onto the 380 and maybe in bases.
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Dont start the basings thing again, waste of time. If the AB upgrades are delayed it must be for slow intake. Just cant seem to get enough guys through the door.All those guys which were turned off from coming could now be delaying the upgrade process. If they have a big improvement to the T/C's it might help.Smart pilots are not going to come to be a A380 FO for 5 + years on the present T/C's.
My guess on the 777 is poor planning to all of a sudden have to many guys, how did that happen and why was the AB F/O to 777 stopped. The least they can do is tranfer upgrades. The 4 year AB F/O's are more than ready to do the transfer upgrade; IE no 6 months in the right seat.
My guess on the 777 is poor planning to all of a sudden have to many guys, how did that happen and why was the AB F/O to 777 stopped. The least they can do is tranfer upgrades. The 4 year AB F/O's are more than ready to do the transfer upgrade; IE no 6 months in the right seat.
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What a load of cr@p
Okay, I do not know the new operational plan, and I do not know the exact numbers required to operate our fleet Airbusses, but with the means available to all of us, it is quite obvious that this is completely ridiculous...
I did prepare a whole rant about how and what, but after reading it through decided that it was mainly moaning and bitching because those @55h0135 up in management can't do their math right...
Just a few numbers, make your conclusion yourselves... Since beginning of the year up to now, we had 72 new FO's joining on the A330 (18/month), only 40 started their upgrade course since then.
How can it be that the Captain/FO ratio is negatively affected by this so that the upgrades need to be delayed for this reason??
My 2p: Let the Captains work overtime as much as possible, every hour overtime costs a lot less then an hour 'basic pay'. A lot of captains will go through training this year, so the 12 month/900 hr thing won't really affect them in the end...
MR8
I did prepare a whole rant about how and what, but after reading it through decided that it was mainly moaning and bitching because those @55h0135 up in management can't do their math right...
Just a few numbers, make your conclusion yourselves... Since beginning of the year up to now, we had 72 new FO's joining on the A330 (18/month), only 40 started their upgrade course since then.
How can it be that the Captain/FO ratio is negatively affected by this so that the upgrades need to be delayed for this reason??
My 2p: Let the Captains work overtime as much as possible, every hour overtime costs a lot less then an hour 'basic pay'. A lot of captains will go through training this year, so the 12 month/900 hr thing won't really affect them in the end...
MR8
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Isnt that logic. If 80 FOs join, 40 old FOs are upgraded. Now you have 40 new captains to fly with 40 FOs net.... If you hire 80 FOs and upgrade 80 FOs you have too many Captains 
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40 upgrades already within 4 months and you guys complain ? That works out to 120year 
It's has become almost a norm that some EK FO's feel it's their right to get command at 3 years and if it doesn't happen, they throw a tantrum.........come on guys. Command gets delayed by a couple of months and it off to "mama Pprune" to whinge............!
I think closure of this thread would be appropriate.........or at least an age restriction of some sort..............
It's has become almost a norm that some EK FO's feel it's their right to get command at 3 years and if it doesn't happen, they throw a tantrum.........come on guys. Command gets delayed by a couple of months and it off to "mama Pprune" to whinge............! I think closure of this thread would be appropriate.........or at least an age restriction of some sort..............
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B. Bonga
It's has become almost a norm that some EK FO's feel it's their right to get command at 3 years and if it doesn't happen, they throw a tantrum.........come on guys.
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5++++
It's has become almost a norm that some EK FO's feel it's their right to get command at 3 years and if it doesn't happen, they throw a tantrum.........come on guys.
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5++++
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It's has become almost a norm that some EK FO's feel it's their right to get command at 3 years and if it doesn't happen, they throw a tantrum.........come on guys. Command gets delayed by a couple of months and it off to "mama Pprune" to whinge............! I think closure of this thread would be appropriate...
There, problem solved.
Will this happen?
Quite likely not, so the 'more junior guys' can begin to sharpen up their fingers, bit*hing and moaning, here on PPRuNe.
Standard fare.
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Hmmmmmm, it appears 411a that even though threads of this sort have been running for the last 4 years or so YOU STILL ARE NOT KNOWING!!!!
The 'junior guys' you refer to are not fresh out of flying school, cadets or 2nd officers, but experienced and seasoned pilots. All they want - for the info of fools like bonga and immigrant is a FAIR GO.....
Do you blame them for a bit of gnashing and wailing when the plan seems to change daily????
The 'junior guys' you refer to are not fresh out of flying school, cadets or 2nd officers, but experienced and seasoned pilots. All they want - for the info of fools like bonga and immigrant is a FAIR GO.....
Do you blame them for a bit of gnashing and wailing when the plan seems to change daily????
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Isnt that logic. If 80 FOs join, 40 old FOs are upgraded. Now you have 40 new captains to fly with 40 FOs net.... If you hire 80 FOs and upgrade 80 FOs you have too many Captains
As for the guys claiming that I'm whinging, fair enough, I probably am.. Then again, who wouldn't in our position?? I'm not upset by having to wait more then 3 years, I perfectly understood what recruitment told me, a MINIMUM of three years.. I am very upset though that I have been bypassed by DEC's, and 'accelerated' guys, while this is completely AGAINST the upgrade path explained to me and how it is written in the FOM..
Once they finally give you a date, and request you not to take your annual leave then... they screw it up, postpone the courses a few months and we suddenly end up with NO leave anymore. The family holidays planned for AFTER the upgrade are now actually right in the middle of the whole process...
And yes, I'm moaning again...
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The 'junior guys' you refer to are not fresh out of flying school, cadets or 2nd officers, but experienced and seasoned pilots.
Sadly EK appears not to do so, and this should positively come as no surprise, as those in charge in the sand pit, never ever keep their word.
I believe I mentiond this over five years ago here on these august forums, yet my advice was ignored.
So, now I can truly say....I told you so.
But hey, what do I know...after working in the middle east for over thirty years?
A middle east leopard does not change his spots.
Never has, never will.
To think otherwise is naive in the extreme.
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one a the more 'ntelligent (rare in itself) things I ever heard KG say over a coffee some years ago (not long after he joined EK) was that this company (EK) don't plan strategically...
he emphasised thet there's a strength in the inherent flexibility permitted... 'n that's true commercially for EK, cause she's always openin' up places and makin' plans at the last minute but god knows there's way too many chiefs and not enough indians...
lack a strat plannin' is what causes these kinds a little upsets in the career plannin'...
it ain't tha fault of flight ops manglement (lord knows I don't come ta their defense very often!) it's the way other departments do their thing 'n change the ops requirement at the last minute...
Where this overlaps with recruitment and pilot numbers causes this domino effect and ya get this kinda disappointin' news...
In tha grand scheme a things, a 3 month delay ain't no big deal... there's some guys 've had a whole year 'n longer tacked on 'cause the A380 slowed things up a mite. 'N they were told unequivocally thet the upgrade would come at 3 years.
I wouldn't be too 'fraid of too many more DEC's joinin' either - the package jest ain't good 'nough to attract 'em. And it ain't jes the EK thing anymore either - it's tha whole DUBAI thing... the ****ty infrastructure, rampant and extortionate inflation, get rich quick schemers, accomodation issues, the drivin' of course, schools, crowded conditions... it's the general malaise a tha place - it's just a false fronted town hidin' a credibility gap behind the facade 'o frills...
a buddy bought hisself one a those leather flight bags from the EK store at tha old DNATA buildin' @ flame roundabout there, it's a little over a year old an' he showed me how the whole wheel assembly has gone askew. Each wheel mounting is stitched on to the outside leather of the case... there's no underlyin' support frame inside the case. It's jes' like little ol' Dubai herself... nice lookin' on the outside but in terms a substance 'n real stuff to support the flash, she comes up kinda like this flight case... it's bogus goods.
But y'all ken bet that the suppliers, an' the retailer all got their more 'n reasonable profits... it's the end user thet gets screwed.
Hang 'n there ladies 'n gents...it's gonna get worse... Dubai's just the painted lady 'o the Gulf Region.
he emphasised thet there's a strength in the inherent flexibility permitted... 'n that's true commercially for EK, cause she's always openin' up places and makin' plans at the last minute but god knows there's way too many chiefs and not enough indians...
lack a strat plannin' is what causes these kinds a little upsets in the career plannin'...
it ain't tha fault of flight ops manglement (lord knows I don't come ta their defense very often!) it's the way other departments do their thing 'n change the ops requirement at the last minute...
Where this overlaps with recruitment and pilot numbers causes this domino effect and ya get this kinda disappointin' news...
In tha grand scheme a things, a 3 month delay ain't no big deal... there's some guys 've had a whole year 'n longer tacked on 'cause the A380 slowed things up a mite. 'N they were told unequivocally thet the upgrade would come at 3 years.
I wouldn't be too 'fraid of too many more DEC's joinin' either - the package jest ain't good 'nough to attract 'em. And it ain't jes the EK thing anymore either - it's tha whole DUBAI thing... the ****ty infrastructure, rampant and extortionate inflation, get rich quick schemers, accomodation issues, the drivin' of course, schools, crowded conditions... it's the general malaise a tha place - it's just a false fronted town hidin' a credibility gap behind the facade 'o frills...
a buddy bought hisself one a those leather flight bags from the EK store at tha old DNATA buildin' @ flame roundabout there, it's a little over a year old an' he showed me how the whole wheel assembly has gone askew. Each wheel mounting is stitched on to the outside leather of the case... there's no underlyin' support frame inside the case. It's jes' like little ol' Dubai herself... nice lookin' on the outside but in terms a substance 'n real stuff to support the flash, she comes up kinda like this flight case... it's bogus goods.
But y'all ken bet that the suppliers, an' the retailer all got their more 'n reasonable profits... it's the end user thet gets screwed.
Hang 'n there ladies 'n gents...it's gonna get worse... Dubai's just the painted lady 'o the Gulf Region.
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Hey King,
Any chance you can type in English?
It's like reading something a teenage girl texts to her friends.
Not that I disagree with your posts, but I rarely get through them because they are painful to read.
Just a thought.
Any chance you can type in English?
It's like reading something a teenage girl texts to her friends.
Not that I disagree with your posts, but I rarely get through them because they are painful to read.
Just a thought.
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I think closure of your 1 year old mouth would be appropriate
You're obviously not top of the food chain obviously since from the 40 or so that have gone for their course you where not part of that group. Tuck your tail in between your legs.............find a nice shade somewhere and follow it as the sun moves
! Nobody said you will not get command, this "have a go" thoery falls out the window ! You will have a go when your time comes and am sure it will be pretty soon seeing as how animated you have become. Just make sure you're ready when they let you have a go, than spending time on Pprune whining you "I wanna, l wanna........." I still insist it ain't a right that the 3 year mark signals the arrival of your fourth bar............the few months delay is valuable time to "stuff your brain" with more knowledge for your upgrade interview/assessment.
Don't work for EK, but Fart Master "check your minimas"
I suspect none of these 3 idiots works for EK
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real reason
Just to inform all those who are moaning the real reason of the delay is that they are getting more DEC in the Airbus fleet.
So...........what can I say...........B.Bonga I do not know where you are from and I do not know who you work for. The only thing I know is that maybe without knowing what has really happened to the guys that have been delayed and having a minimum of respect for them you should avoid to criticize.........
Anyway you are of course free to do it but then if somebody answers you in a not so diplomatic way maybe you deserve it.
Flare
So...........what can I say...........B.Bonga I do not know where you are from and I do not know who you work for. The only thing I know is that maybe without knowing what has really happened to the guys that have been delayed and having a minimum of respect for them you should avoid to criticize.........
Anyway you are of course free to do it but then if somebody answers you in a not so diplomatic way maybe you deserve it.
Flare