**Pilot Shortage in the Middle East??**
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**Pilot Shortage in the Middle East??**
A study just came out by a leading consulting firm that there is a drastic shortage of pilots in the region, with the number of pilots required in the GCC to increase by 75% by 2020.
Presumably this is fantastic news for pilots!
I'm a reporter with Arabian Business and am interested in comments from pilots.
Do you believe there's a projected shortage of talent in the region?
Are many of you coming from abroad for better opportunities here?
Do you feel that airlines poach off each other?
Are airlines increasing compensation packages to retain pilots?
We could speak over the phone as well (no need for mentioning which airline you work for of course!).
Below is a link about the report.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/51438...rns-firm?ln=en
All the best,
Sara
Presumably this is fantastic news for pilots!
I'm a reporter with Arabian Business and am interested in comments from pilots.
Do you believe there's a projected shortage of talent in the region?
Are many of you coming from abroad for better opportunities here?
Do you feel that airlines poach off each other?
Are airlines increasing compensation packages to retain pilots?
We could speak over the phone as well (no need for mentioning which airline you work for of course!).
Below is a link about the report.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/51438...rns-firm?ln=en
All the best,
Sara
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yes, there will be a chronic shortage of pilots in the region. in fact, there already is by the looks of the workloads out there now, captains rostered with captains etc.
unfortunately, there is simply not enough local qualified pilots to take the positions. there will probably be inadequate supplies from the international pool as well of experienced pilots.
in the region, retaining pilots by raising basic salaryies is a knee jerk REACTION only after so many resign to go where packages and t & c's are better. this has been a futile exercise as ridiculous inflation and a weak US dollar continually wears down the 'send home' pay for most expats.
there is a LOT of poaching, especially by airlines who want their nationals back home ie omanair poaching gulfair.
there's emirates, etihad and qatar airways who buy planes faster than they are able to provide pilots for. planes are getting grounded by qatar and etihad because of inadequate crewing. emirates should follow soon.
gulfair has a 'bahrainisation' push which they can ill afford. it only serves to make gulfair an unattractive place for expats pilots to work.
probably the biggest factor apart from remuneration, is the lack of 'voice and muscle' by pilots locals and expats alike, in most of these airlines.
unfortunately, there is simply not enough local qualified pilots to take the positions. there will probably be inadequate supplies from the international pool as well of experienced pilots.
in the region, retaining pilots by raising basic salaryies is a knee jerk REACTION only after so many resign to go where packages and t & c's are better. this has been a futile exercise as ridiculous inflation and a weak US dollar continually wears down the 'send home' pay for most expats.
there is a LOT of poaching, especially by airlines who want their nationals back home ie omanair poaching gulfair.
there's emirates, etihad and qatar airways who buy planes faster than they are able to provide pilots for. planes are getting grounded by qatar and etihad because of inadequate crewing. emirates should follow soon.
gulfair has a 'bahrainisation' push which they can ill afford. it only serves to make gulfair an unattractive place for expats pilots to work.
probably the biggest factor apart from remuneration, is the lack of 'voice and muscle' by pilots locals and expats alike, in most of these airlines.
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I believe this kind of announcement is ok to boost investments in the numerous new flying schools, but at this time, it doesn't reflect the reality.
UAE airlines still have recruitment requirements much higher than many foreign majors, and it's for sure they still have an opportunity to raise many more applicants by slightly lowering these requirements.
Even the local business aviation market is not yet in the crisis, and it's still difficult to get a job without "sponsorship". What matters is that airlines' managers are doing their maths to forecast their recruitment needs. As long as their policy is consistent, they are not interested by such studies.
How could consultants be more aware of the demand/offer market than the concerned airlines ? As far as I know, no GCC operator declared to be concerned by this situation.
Lots of pilots will be available in the future, and I guess the real problem will be more focussed on training those pilots for their new airline specific operations, since this is limited by the airline capacity. Airlines should be more focussed on enlarging their training department, because this is gonna be the real limitation.
UAE airlines still have recruitment requirements much higher than many foreign majors, and it's for sure they still have an opportunity to raise many more applicants by slightly lowering these requirements.
Even the local business aviation market is not yet in the crisis, and it's still difficult to get a job without "sponsorship". What matters is that airlines' managers are doing their maths to forecast their recruitment needs. As long as their policy is consistent, they are not interested by such studies.
How could consultants be more aware of the demand/offer market than the concerned airlines ? As far as I know, no GCC operator declared to be concerned by this situation.
Lots of pilots will be available in the future, and I guess the real problem will be more focussed on training those pilots for their new airline specific operations, since this is limited by the airline capacity. Airlines should be more focussed on enlarging their training department, because this is gonna be the real limitation.
Last edited by sispanys ria; 27th Mar 2008 at 15:04.
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Apart from training departments it also depends from the quality of the pilots you recruit.
If you need experienced pilots to fly your fleet because you need them to be LR captains in a few years you also have to pay them.
Usually experienced pilots are with at least around 10 years flying that means aged around 35. Except play boys usually at 35 they have a wife ( or more
) and at least 1 or 2 children. That means higher expenses to run the family.
If the package is similar to the one you have back home............. you know the answer.
I think that the biggest mistake of GCC airlines management is about considering their pilots like those from other majors.
If You are French and you fly for AirFrance you think about improving the package but not leaving your home country.
If you are French and you fly for emirates you must have the same package as in AirFrance plus a consistent extra to live far from your home country.
At the end we all are here for a better life. A better life is made by the package, the services, the workload and other things.
If you have the same or barely the same lifestyle you have back home why should you come in the middle of nowhere?????
Flare
If you need experienced pilots to fly your fleet because you need them to be LR captains in a few years you also have to pay them.
Usually experienced pilots are with at least around 10 years flying that means aged around 35. Except play boys usually at 35 they have a wife ( or more
) and at least 1 or 2 children. That means higher expenses to run the family.If the package is similar to the one you have back home............. you know the answer.
I think that the biggest mistake of GCC airlines management is about considering their pilots like those from other majors.
If You are French and you fly for AirFrance you think about improving the package but not leaving your home country.
If you are French and you fly for emirates you must have the same package as in AirFrance plus a consistent extra to live far from your home country.
At the end we all are here for a better life. A better life is made by the package, the services, the workload and other things.
If you have the same or barely the same lifestyle you have back home why should you come in the middle of nowhere?????
Flare
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Sara,
There are a number of experienced pilots throughout the world and many here in North America.
The carriers here in the western portion of the universe are suffereing as a result of extremely high oil prices as well as the weakening dollar. I fully expect a couple of carriers here in the US to either furlough pilots or cease operations all together. In my case a pilot with America West which got into what many now consider a bad merger with the former USAirways is now under assult due to continuing labor problems. I choose to look outside of my home country for a couple of reasons. One, I need to make at least what I am currently earning as a 5 yr pilot here and second I need stability.
I have applied to just two carriers in the ME region both of who appear to be growing at an alarming rate. I also feel that with the exception of Emirates many of the regions carriers are not prepared to handle the amount of growth that will be upon them in the next year. These other carriers will need to get their HR departments up to the task in rather short order or they will be faced with the reality of taking aircraft and watching them sit as a result of not enough crews.
In closing I see a huge opportunity for pilots in the region and expect that many of the carriers will slowly but surely get their departments up to the task.
A320PLT
There are a number of experienced pilots throughout the world and many here in North America.
The carriers here in the western portion of the universe are suffereing as a result of extremely high oil prices as well as the weakening dollar. I fully expect a couple of carriers here in the US to either furlough pilots or cease operations all together. In my case a pilot with America West which got into what many now consider a bad merger with the former USAirways is now under assult due to continuing labor problems. I choose to look outside of my home country for a couple of reasons. One, I need to make at least what I am currently earning as a 5 yr pilot here and second I need stability.
I have applied to just two carriers in the ME region both of who appear to be growing at an alarming rate. I also feel that with the exception of Emirates many of the regions carriers are not prepared to handle the amount of growth that will be upon them in the next year. These other carriers will need to get their HR departments up to the task in rather short order or they will be faced with the reality of taking aircraft and watching them sit as a result of not enough crews.
In closing I see a huge opportunity for pilots in the region and expect that many of the carriers will slowly but surely get their departments up to the task.
A320PLT
Last edited by A320PLT; 27th Mar 2008 at 17:21.
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Sorry Sispanys but that is incorrect. Emirates, Etihad, Gulf Air and Qatar are all losing pilots and currently short. GF and EK are the best off at the moment - meaning their shortages are not causing may problems, but the others are hurting.
Etihad has drastically changed their rostering practices to get their pilots to fly more (see complaints on this website) and Qatar has been notoriously short for a long time and have dropped their entry requirments.
Emirates had plans to hire almost 600 pilots this but reduced that to under 400 now because they cannot handle the hiring and training of that number. This means either grounding aircraft or flying them less efficiently OR, as most airlines in this region are doing, by pushing their pilots to work harder.
Sara, one problem is that PAY is not the only consideration. As I mentioned, airlines are pushing the boundries of what is considered safe when it comes to how hard they are pushing their pilots. Etihad has pilots flying to Europe, having 12 hours off and the flying back only to have 12 hours again before their next flight. Emirates has a 17 hour flight to Huston followed by 24 hours rest and then a 16 hour flight back. It does not take a genius to see how these types of patterns cause fatigue.
So pilots are leaving the region due to the poor pay AND the poor conditions.
The largest problem though Sara is the lack of EXPERIENCED pilots. You can reduce requirements to hire more pilots and as Sispansys the requirments here are higher then many major airlines elsewhere. The difference is that a major airline in the US or Europe will hire a pilot who can expect to be a first officer for more than 10 years. This allows time to train that pilot and give him/her the experience they need to operate as a captain.
With pilots at Emirates moving from first officer to captain in 3 years they cannot afford to hire inexperienced pilots. What consitutes 'experience' can vary by opinion but there is no doubt that world wide there is a shortage of experience especially in the position of captain.
It is this issue that will affect the Middle East and already is. Gulf Air's accident several years ago was a perfect example. A VERY inexperienced captain with an inexperienced first officer. There were company politics involved in that accident but the fact is the pilots were COMPLETELY at fault.
Gulf Air recovered from that and last year after a large exodus of pilots they increased their pay package to levels above those of Emirates and Etihad. They have realized the value of the experience they have and are atemptng to keep it.
The other Gulf airlines are expanding too rapidly to make a mistake in their hiring and pilot retention practices. As of right now they do not seem to be doing well in those areas. You only have to read through this forum to see the level of discontent. While I think many poster on this site have, in my opinion, extreme views on the pay and conditions here (at least in some cases) I think that the vast majority of pilots in the Middle East are concerned about the poor pay and, more significantly, the declining working conditions. The declining dollar and inflation are of great concern.
Many pilots are leaving because almost every airline on the planet is hiring!!!! Pilots can go where they please and, while they are sometimes somewhat restricted due to issues like seniority at the moment this is not an issue in many regions and companies. Even Air France and Austrian airline are hiring direct entry captains!!!!!!!
Sara, let me put it this way. If I was consulting or giving advice to the rulers in the Middle East I would say this. You have to design a pay package and design conditions that will kepp the pilots you have and attract the ones with the experience and skills you need. There is a LARGE focus now on the Middle East. The world knows about Dubai, UAE, Qatar etc and you see their ads every day on CNN, TV around the world and company and country ads across the globe. The world is watching.
The countries and the airlines CANNOT afford an accident!!!!! They certainly cannot afford an accident that is caused by (or percieved as caused by) inexperienced pilots, poor maintenance or any other 'cost cutting' or '3rd world' factors. I mean no disrespect when I say 3rd world, but the fact is in much of the world knowleadge of the Middle East is poor and it is viewed as an 'emerging' area. An accident would simply solidify that view.
The world is competing for pilots (and many other skills) and the companies inthe Middle East have to fight for that talent. If they want to grow as they plan they still need skilled foreign labour and they have to pay for that skill - firstly because everyone else is fighting for it and secondly because to attract people and get them to leave their home countires they have to make it attractive.
The airlines in the ME are currently not very attractive.
Etihad has drastically changed their rostering practices to get their pilots to fly more (see complaints on this website) and Qatar has been notoriously short for a long time and have dropped their entry requirments.
Emirates had plans to hire almost 600 pilots this but reduced that to under 400 now because they cannot handle the hiring and training of that number. This means either grounding aircraft or flying them less efficiently OR, as most airlines in this region are doing, by pushing their pilots to work harder.
Sara, one problem is that PAY is not the only consideration. As I mentioned, airlines are pushing the boundries of what is considered safe when it comes to how hard they are pushing their pilots. Etihad has pilots flying to Europe, having 12 hours off and the flying back only to have 12 hours again before their next flight. Emirates has a 17 hour flight to Huston followed by 24 hours rest and then a 16 hour flight back. It does not take a genius to see how these types of patterns cause fatigue.
So pilots are leaving the region due to the poor pay AND the poor conditions.
The largest problem though Sara is the lack of EXPERIENCED pilots. You can reduce requirements to hire more pilots and as Sispansys the requirments here are higher then many major airlines elsewhere. The difference is that a major airline in the US or Europe will hire a pilot who can expect to be a first officer for more than 10 years. This allows time to train that pilot and give him/her the experience they need to operate as a captain.
With pilots at Emirates moving from first officer to captain in 3 years they cannot afford to hire inexperienced pilots. What consitutes 'experience' can vary by opinion but there is no doubt that world wide there is a shortage of experience especially in the position of captain.
It is this issue that will affect the Middle East and already is. Gulf Air's accident several years ago was a perfect example. A VERY inexperienced captain with an inexperienced first officer. There were company politics involved in that accident but the fact is the pilots were COMPLETELY at fault.
Gulf Air recovered from that and last year after a large exodus of pilots they increased their pay package to levels above those of Emirates and Etihad. They have realized the value of the experience they have and are atemptng to keep it.
The other Gulf airlines are expanding too rapidly to make a mistake in their hiring and pilot retention practices. As of right now they do not seem to be doing well in those areas. You only have to read through this forum to see the level of discontent. While I think many poster on this site have, in my opinion, extreme views on the pay and conditions here (at least in some cases) I think that the vast majority of pilots in the Middle East are concerned about the poor pay and, more significantly, the declining working conditions. The declining dollar and inflation are of great concern.
Many pilots are leaving because almost every airline on the planet is hiring!!!! Pilots can go where they please and, while they are sometimes somewhat restricted due to issues like seniority at the moment this is not an issue in many regions and companies. Even Air France and Austrian airline are hiring direct entry captains!!!!!!!
Sara, let me put it this way. If I was consulting or giving advice to the rulers in the Middle East I would say this. You have to design a pay package and design conditions that will kepp the pilots you have and attract the ones with the experience and skills you need. There is a LARGE focus now on the Middle East. The world knows about Dubai, UAE, Qatar etc and you see their ads every day on CNN, TV around the world and company and country ads across the globe. The world is watching.
The countries and the airlines CANNOT afford an accident!!!!! They certainly cannot afford an accident that is caused by (or percieved as caused by) inexperienced pilots, poor maintenance or any other 'cost cutting' or '3rd world' factors. I mean no disrespect when I say 3rd world, but the fact is in much of the world knowleadge of the Middle East is poor and it is viewed as an 'emerging' area. An accident would simply solidify that view.
The world is competing for pilots (and many other skills) and the companies inthe Middle East have to fight for that talent. If they want to grow as they plan they still need skilled foreign labour and they have to pay for that skill - firstly because everyone else is fighting for it and secondly because to attract people and get them to leave their home countires they have to make it attractive.
The airlines in the ME are currently not very attractive.
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I'm not the first to say it, but the Middle East airline that comes up with a realistic package allowing expat pilots to fly 'n' weeks on, 'n' weeks off - and spend their days off and fly a pattern that starts and ends in the home (non M.E.) port, that airline will magically solve much of its pilot shortage problem in one fell swoop.
(Hint to the HR department weenie of whatever M.E. airline who may be reading this. Make it your own idea. Take it in to head office and sell it and you'll be the hero who saved the day - and maybe a few aircraft not being parked against the airfield boundary 'for painting', which is the current excuse given to its owners for having aircraft on the ground at one particular M.E. airline.)
(Hint to the HR department weenie of whatever M.E. airline who may be reading this. Make it your own idea. Take it in to head office and sell it and you'll be the hero who saved the day - and maybe a few aircraft not being parked against the airfield boundary 'for painting', which is the current excuse given to its owners for having aircraft on the ground at one particular M.E. airline.)
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Wiley,
You are right but it takes a long time to get to a situation where you have enough pilots to make sweet schedules. I agree with you but also lets not forget the poor housing situation. I would go in a heartbeat but I have to be concerned about housing as I have a wife and young son in tow.
I am still waiting for a call back from Etihad where I finished the online application almost two months ago. Experienced? Well that's in the view of the company. In my case I have over 3000 hours in an aircraft (A320) that they operate. Now if their HR dept was properly staffed to handle the number of applicants they receive. Now I am just one example, just think of how many are in the same boat and just how many some of these carrier's with the exception again of Emirates.
A320PLT
You are right but it takes a long time to get to a situation where you have enough pilots to make sweet schedules. I agree with you but also lets not forget the poor housing situation. I would go in a heartbeat but I have to be concerned about housing as I have a wife and young son in tow.
I am still waiting for a call back from Etihad where I finished the online application almost two months ago. Experienced? Well that's in the view of the company. In my case I have over 3000 hours in an aircraft (A320) that they operate. Now if their HR dept was properly staffed to handle the number of applicants they receive. Now I am just one example, just think of how many are in the same boat and just how many some of these carrier's with the exception again of Emirates.
A320PLT
Last edited by A320PLT; 27th Mar 2008 at 19:16.
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hear hear, TRADER. for once, i agree with you whole heartedly. the regional airlines however, will not take heed of such wisdom for many many cultural, and pride reasons.
when airlines like etihad think they can simply start and rapidly expand an airline because they have the money, it's a sure sign of stupidity and worse, when the human element had not been factored in...and that is what's happening.
just sit back and watch the houses of cards fall.
when airlines like etihad think they can simply start and rapidly expand an airline because they have the money, it's a sure sign of stupidity and worse, when the human element had not been factored in...and that is what's happening.
just sit back and watch the houses of cards fall.
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UAE airlines still have recruitment requirements much higher than many foreign majors, and it's for sure they still have an opportunity to raise many more applicants by slightly lowering these requirements.
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Something else to consider, Sarah, is the infrastructure that needs to accompany aircraft orders. You can see the mess Dubai is in because they have suddenly realised all the infrastructure the city needs as an afterthought.
Buying the aircraft is the EASY bit. Planning the resources (both human and structural) that support the aircraft is another. It takes years to train pilots, build airports etc. etc. I speak from the air traffic control side of things, and I can tell you that a continued lack of planning of infrastructure will lead to MAJOR PROBLEMS- the least of which will be parked aeroplanes.
As an example, the German ATS provider is struggling with growth in air traffic movements of 8.6%. We are experiencing growth of in excess of 21%. You can argue that if you are near capacity, and grow by 8% then you have problems. But capacity is a product of the infrastructure. Picture the SZH in the sky.
Buying the aircraft is the EASY bit. Planning the resources (both human and structural) that support the aircraft is another. It takes years to train pilots, build airports etc. etc. I speak from the air traffic control side of things, and I can tell you that a continued lack of planning of infrastructure will lead to MAJOR PROBLEMS- the least of which will be parked aeroplanes.
As an example, the German ATS provider is struggling with growth in air traffic movements of 8.6%. We are experiencing growth of in excess of 21%. You can argue that if you are near capacity, and grow by 8% then you have problems. But capacity is a product of the infrastructure. Picture the SZH in the sky.
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Sara, Gulf Air used to be the Training camp for pilots & high level management for years. Now the entire region is, ITS NOT all about money, it’s how many 'E's you can fit in front of your title that reflects years of experience and about 10000$/E. i.e ''EEVPO, EEVHR, EEVIT, EEVPF&B......etc, For me EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECAPITAN/ $h!t 
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Shortage
Every airline in the region is short of pilots, all are looking for experience,
The ways to get experienced pilots and to keep them are simple:
-Stop treating us as legal / illegal when calculating duty time limitations
and understand that some people can not sleep during the day to compensate
for night flights.
- Understand that we have families that need us too, especially when we
uproot them and bring them to a totally different culture.
- Income must be increased as demand for experienced pilots is far greater
than supply.
- A work pattern like 35/31 or 4 weeks on 2 weeks off can also be quite
attractive.
Shortage will increase for the coming 15 years, so the faster airlines
act, the better their chances of keeping their pilots, and maybe attracting
some more experienced ones.
The ways to get experienced pilots and to keep them are simple:
-Stop treating us as legal / illegal when calculating duty time limitations
and understand that some people can not sleep during the day to compensate
for night flights.
- Understand that we have families that need us too, especially when we
uproot them and bring them to a totally different culture.
- Income must be increased as demand for experienced pilots is far greater
than supply.
- A work pattern like 35/31 or 4 weeks on 2 weeks off can also be quite
attractive.
Shortage will increase for the coming 15 years, so the faster airlines
act, the better their chances of keeping their pilots, and maybe attracting
some more experienced ones.
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Hear are some cold hard facts for me not considering working in the ME. My situation is as follows:
- Experienced FO on Airbus (for their purposes)
- Current salary after tax is approx. £3200-00 per month (it also comes with the usual trimmings)
To be honest, the packages that they are offering, are not much better than what I am getting at the moment. For me to consider moving to the great-oil-filled-sandpit, I want a package that will make me wobbley at the knees..
A much simplified explanation, but I think covers the jist of it.
- Experienced FO on Airbus (for their purposes)
- Current salary after tax is approx. £3200-00 per month (it also comes with the usual trimmings)
To be honest, the packages that they are offering, are not much better than what I am getting at the moment. For me to consider moving to the great-oil-filled-sandpit, I want a package that will make me wobbley at the knees..
A much simplified explanation, but I think covers the jist of it.
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bluelearjetdriver,
There are people in the Middle East who pay better than EK or EY, If that's who you were looking at. How does £5200 (10500USD) sound? Based on a 60 hour month, ie. that's minimum, you can earn allot more.
That's for a Airbus F/O.
There are people in the Middle East who pay better than EK or EY, If that's who you were looking at. How does £5200 (10500USD) sound? Based on a 60 hour month, ie. that's minimum, you can earn allot more.
That's for a Airbus F/O.
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Bluelearjetdriver
I agree with that statement as in USD I am earning $7800 before taxes and upgrade to captain is further away than I can see. This very sloppy merger and its related labor problems, oil prices and the list goes on and on.
A320PLT
I agree with that statement as in USD I am earning $7800 before taxes and upgrade to captain is further away than I can see. This very sloppy merger and its related labor problems, oil prices and the list goes on and on.
A320PLT
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Wings of Fury,
Now if THAT company would make me an offer I couldn't understand I WOULD consider moving, IF a housing allowance were included ON TOP of this salary.....I have a feeling that this number also includes a housing allowance, in which case it's not as good any more.
Apologies for the thread drift, but hey, if the middle eastern people movers want to know what would make me giggle, then £5200-00 ($10,400) p/m tax free PLUS a housing allowance would be it.
Nuff said. Listening to Pink Floyd always makes me a bit light headed....
Now if THAT company would make me an offer I couldn't understand I WOULD consider moving, IF a housing allowance were included ON TOP of this salary.....I have a feeling that this number also includes a housing allowance, in which case it's not as good any more.
Apologies for the thread drift, but hey, if the middle eastern people movers want to know what would make me giggle, then £5200-00 ($10,400) p/m tax free PLUS a housing allowance would be it.
Nuff said. Listening to Pink Floyd always makes me a bit light headed....