Aussie Businessmen set to sue Etihad
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Aussie Businessmen set to sue Etihad
From today's Sydney Morning Herald...
'The case of three Australians charged with drunken, lewd behavior aboard a first class flight to the Middle East is set to move to a Sydney courtroom.
While businessmen Jeremy Snaith and David Evans were due to be flown to Bangkok early this morning after being convicted in an Abu Dhabi court of offensive behaviour and given suspended prison sentences, their lawyer, Ross Hill, is preparing to sue the airline, Etihad, for malicious prosecution and unlawful detention.
Mr Hill says his clients are not only innocent of the charges, which included being drunk, lewd and even naked in the first-class cabin, but have spent a month in a desert prison eating camel, at least in Snaith's case, and have suffered business losses.
But like everything else in this case the details are unclear. Media reports from the United Arab Emirates yesterday claimed Snaith returned a positive drug sample with traces of cocaine and hashish. Mr Hill rejects this and insists the samples were switched and came back from the laboratory with a different exhibit number. Instead he says Snaith was convicted by three judges of using offensive language, for which he received a six month suspended sentence, and fined $330 for being a non-Muslim drinking without a permit. "No-one is denying he had a drink but it was warm champagne served by the airline," Mr Hill said.
Evans was convicted of using offensive language and touching a cabin crew member on the arm for which he received a 12-month suspended sentence. His alcohol and drug tests, taken when he got off the flight, returned negative.
The third man, William Sergent, was cleared and has flown on to Edinburgh, where he was originally headed on April 27 when he was arrested and thrown into a desert prison for testing positive to the prescription drug he takes to help him sleep.
Mr Hill said he argued the court did not have the jurisdiction to hear the drug charges against Snaith. "These Arabic newspapers are getting their information from the police officers who laid the charges and would be rather embarrassed by the way it turned out," he said.
"It was clear on the prosecutor's own brief that there was a problem with the test results. It was someone else's specimen which came back from the lab. It had a different exhibit number."
Mr Hill said the men would prefer to appeal against the convictions but that would mean staying in prison for another month. "It's a hard balance for them - stay another month in prison or cop it on the chin and get out of there."
He insisted all the alcohol tests came back negative, which contradicts the airline's version that the men were drinking heavily from their duty free purchases.
"We don't blame the authorities. They were doing their job. We blame Etihad."
'The case of three Australians charged with drunken, lewd behavior aboard a first class flight to the Middle East is set to move to a Sydney courtroom.
While businessmen Jeremy Snaith and David Evans were due to be flown to Bangkok early this morning after being convicted in an Abu Dhabi court of offensive behaviour and given suspended prison sentences, their lawyer, Ross Hill, is preparing to sue the airline, Etihad, for malicious prosecution and unlawful detention.
Mr Hill says his clients are not only innocent of the charges, which included being drunk, lewd and even naked in the first-class cabin, but have spent a month in a desert prison eating camel, at least in Snaith's case, and have suffered business losses.
But like everything else in this case the details are unclear. Media reports from the United Arab Emirates yesterday claimed Snaith returned a positive drug sample with traces of cocaine and hashish. Mr Hill rejects this and insists the samples were switched and came back from the laboratory with a different exhibit number. Instead he says Snaith was convicted by three judges of using offensive language, for which he received a six month suspended sentence, and fined $330 for being a non-Muslim drinking without a permit. "No-one is denying he had a drink but it was warm champagne served by the airline," Mr Hill said.
Evans was convicted of using offensive language and touching a cabin crew member on the arm for which he received a 12-month suspended sentence. His alcohol and drug tests, taken when he got off the flight, returned negative.
The third man, William Sergent, was cleared and has flown on to Edinburgh, where he was originally headed on April 27 when he was arrested and thrown into a desert prison for testing positive to the prescription drug he takes to help him sleep.
Mr Hill said he argued the court did not have the jurisdiction to hear the drug charges against Snaith. "These Arabic newspapers are getting their information from the police officers who laid the charges and would be rather embarrassed by the way it turned out," he said.
"It was clear on the prosecutor's own brief that there was a problem with the test results. It was someone else's specimen which came back from the lab. It had a different exhibit number."
Mr Hill said the men would prefer to appeal against the convictions but that would mean staying in prison for another month. "It's a hard balance for them - stay another month in prison or cop it on the chin and get out of there."
He insisted all the alcohol tests came back negative, which contradicts the airline's version that the men were drinking heavily from their duty free purchases.
"We don't blame the authorities. They were doing their job. We blame Etihad."
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This is going to be fun. I would think if you are going to get arrested for taking Temazapam and the like, perhaps the airlines should provide you with a long list of substances you do not want in your system if you get checked in the UAE. Substances that you can freely avail legally from your point of departure. Makes them look silly really.....
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Good morning Sheikh Ahmed!
Can I have champagne please? And make it chilled...OK?
Time has come to pay for the airline running your philandering ring!
We told you but you did not want to listen, I would be interested to know the nationalities of the crew involved, I bet they were Morrocan!
Can I have champagne please? And make it chilled...OK?
Time has come to pay for the airline running your philandering ring!
We told you but you did not want to listen, I would be interested to know the nationalities of the crew involved, I bet they were Morrocan!
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Not taking sides as we will never know all of the facts, but regardless, from a PR point of view for Etihad who is just trying to establish their Australian niche...this is gonna hurt! 
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Before this thread gets binned like the last one.
Moderator, this case is extremely pertinent to many people living in the Middle East and maybe even more so to those travelling on a Middle Eastern Carrier through the region. The question is can a person drink on these flights without a liquor permit, or do they run the risk of getting arrested.
Secondly are passengers allowed to take drugs containing codeine and the like before boarding a Middle Eastern airline transiting through the region when these drugs are legal drugs in their home country or will they be locked up as criminals for doing this. Additionally do passengers have to be warned that they may be drug tested when transitting through the UAE. Is it any of the UAE's business that you may have taken an illicit drug in a different country before passing through the UAE as a transit passenger?
Putting aside the issue of who they touched and how they acted, which differs depending on who's story you hear the above two points are the ones that would worry most people.
Secondly are passengers allowed to take drugs containing codeine and the like before boarding a Middle Eastern airline transiting through the region when these drugs are legal drugs in their home country or will they be locked up as criminals for doing this. Additionally do passengers have to be warned that they may be drug tested when transitting through the UAE. Is it any of the UAE's business that you may have taken an illicit drug in a different country before passing through the UAE as a transit passenger?
Putting aside the issue of who they touched and how they acted, which differs depending on who's story you hear the above two points are the ones that would worry most people.
Last edited by AirNoServicesAustralia; 6th Jun 2007 at 07:24. Reason: Written badly due to writing in a rush to beat the moderators big red pen.
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It is called sodomy without vaseline!
To tell you the truth, I do not see the reason why the previous post was closed, albeit for the sensitve ears of the man with the sick liver et all... little wussies who are pretending that EY is this wonderful middle east airline with a unique service offering.
The truth of the matter is that, as this particular case shows, Etihad has brought upon itself, Emirates, the UAE and to a larger extent other Middle east airlines, unecessary attention because of the way it is mismanaged.
Whatever was done and whoever did it, this passenger handling incident is the Pandora's box opening to show what is really inside Etihad.
The ability these young ladies have to run rings around their incompetent crew management and the local authorities, when they actually are the biggest puttanas the Gulf has known goes a long way to show the lack of maturity that this airline requires to make itself a niche with the big boys, and it will remain in the eyes of all the little boy's airline.
So Mr. Aqeel's investment is finally showing as low value, and befitting of his little mind, and oversized ego, not to mention pimping. Special adviser to the Sheikh....My @rse!
If Ey is to save its face, it needs to act fast and now, and rid itself of the legacy from its northern competitor.
To tell you the truth, I do not see the reason why the previous post was closed, albeit for the sensitve ears of the man with the sick liver et all... little wussies who are pretending that EY is this wonderful middle east airline with a unique service offering.
The truth of the matter is that, as this particular case shows, Etihad has brought upon itself, Emirates, the UAE and to a larger extent other Middle east airlines, unecessary attention because of the way it is mismanaged.
Whatever was done and whoever did it, this passenger handling incident is the Pandora's box opening to show what is really inside Etihad.
The ability these young ladies have to run rings around their incompetent crew management and the local authorities, when they actually are the biggest puttanas the Gulf has known goes a long way to show the lack of maturity that this airline requires to make itself a niche with the big boys, and it will remain in the eyes of all the little boy's airline.
So Mr. Aqeel's investment is finally showing as low value, and befitting of his little mind, and oversized ego, not to mention pimping. Special adviser to the Sheikh....My @rse!
If Ey is to save its face, it needs to act fast and now, and rid itself of the legacy from its northern competitor.
Last edited by Mustapha Rex; 6th Jun 2007 at 07:44.
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These guys were drunken fools. They deserved what they got. If they hadn't acted like idiots none of this would have happened. The only difference is they could afford high priced lawyers. Thousands of people a day travel to and from the UAE with no problem. So, no this is not a thread about the risks of drinking on a flight to the UAE, it is about acting like a fu@#$ng idiot.
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So Togalk, please enlighten me as to how this is not about being arrested for drinking without a license and taking illicit drugs (that were legal in the country they were taken and legal in the rest of the world for that matter) when that is exactly what they were charged and in some cases found guilty of.
In this case they may or may not have acted like idiots. My point is, do other passengers have to worry about flying through the UAE due to this case. You should know that their will be people specifically booking Qantas or Cathay right now specifically to fly to Europe without landing in a Muslim country due to this case.
My worry is that someone pisses off the wrong person on an Etihad flight, and they are dragged off to prison for drinking alcohol that was given to them by the airline, due to not having a license.
Also my understanding of the UAE laws were that a person serving alcohol to a person without a permit was open to prosecution, so does that mean that any cabin crew that served the warm champagne to the men involved should also be charged?
In this case they may or may not have acted like idiots. My point is, do other passengers have to worry about flying through the UAE due to this case. You should know that their will be people specifically booking Qantas or Cathay right now specifically to fly to Europe without landing in a Muslim country due to this case.
My worry is that someone pisses off the wrong person on an Etihad flight, and they are dragged off to prison for drinking alcohol that was given to them by the airline, due to not having a license.
Also my understanding of the UAE laws were that a person serving alcohol to a person without a permit was open to prosecution, so does that mean that any cabin crew that served the warm champagne to the men involved should also be charged?
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The Foreign or the Foreign Affairs Office
AirNoServicesAustralia,
In these cases the best way to obtain legal advice is to contact your own foreign office for travel advice rather than the moderator, at least that way you get legal protection if you do get arrested for taken a drink during a trip via the GULF region, or codeine for that matter. This way the passengers or travellers will save themseves eating camel meat and experience the Beni Yass jail hospitalty.
Just a thought, I wonder if the flight crew filed an ASR following the incident on board the flight? It might be a good idea to invite either the flight crew and/or the cabin crew to put their version forward.
For those flying from Australia you can get info on what not to take from the following website:
http://www.dfat.gov.au/
Safe and happy flying to all
In these cases the best way to obtain legal advice is to contact your own foreign office for travel advice rather than the moderator, at least that way you get legal protection if you do get arrested for taken a drink during a trip via the GULF region, or codeine for that matter. This way the passengers or travellers will save themseves eating camel meat and experience the Beni Yass jail hospitalty.
Just a thought, I wonder if the flight crew filed an ASR following the incident on board the flight? It might be a good idea to invite either the flight crew and/or the cabin crew to put their version forward.
For those flying from Australia you can get info on what not to take from the following website:
http://www.dfat.gov.au/
Safe and happy flying to all
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Well Said
"The ability these young ladies have to run rings around their incompetent crew management and the local authorities, when they actually are the biggest puttanas the Gulf has known goes a long way to show the lack of maturity that this airline requires to make itself a niche with the big boys, and it will remain in the eyes of all the little boy's airline".
"So Mr. Aqeel's investment is finally showing as low value, and befitting of his little mind, and oversized ego, not to mention pimping. Special adviser to the Sheikh....My @rse!"
Well said Mustapha Rex
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Sinbad I am a resident of the UAE and also in my profession I have to watch what I take drug wise, and I have a liquor license. I think this thread is of more benefit to people looking to travel through the Gulf, and what needs to be discussed here is not what happened or did not happen on the flight behaviour wise, as if they behaved badly then charge them with that but why cloud that with arresting Australian citizens for drinking alcohol provided by the airline over international waters.
Also it seems some have an axe to grind against Etihad, eg. talking about Moroccans etc. That isn't the issue here, and just makes it more likely that this thread, which I think is relevant, could be binned by the moderator like last time.
People will get drunk on flights or before flights. Now loutish, dangerous drunken behaviour will of course not be tolerated, but will being quietly intoxicated without causing anyone else trouble get you arrested on arrival into Abu Dhabi, even when you are just transitting through to Europe? If so passengers need to be specifically warned of the fact when booking a ticket with Etihad, along with what drugs they must not take "X" number of days before flying. Maybe they should put a breathaliser on the drinks trolley and when you blow over the limit they will have to give you a warm glass of milk instead.
Also it seems some have an axe to grind against Etihad, eg. talking about Moroccans etc. That isn't the issue here, and just makes it more likely that this thread, which I think is relevant, could be binned by the moderator like last time.
People will get drunk on flights or before flights. Now loutish, dangerous drunken behaviour will of course not be tolerated, but will being quietly intoxicated without causing anyone else trouble get you arrested on arrival into Abu Dhabi, even when you are just transitting through to Europe? If so passengers need to be specifically warned of the fact when booking a ticket with Etihad, along with what drugs they must not take "X" number of days before flying. Maybe they should put a breathaliser on the drinks trolley and when you blow over the limit they will have to give you a warm glass of milk instead.
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Again just my unqualified understanding of UAE law, but doesn't it say that as a tourist you may drink at the hotel at which you are staying without a liquor license, which makes me think that if you are travelling with Etihad, wouldn't they by proxy be your "hotel" and as such you can drink at their establishment, ie the drink trolley parked at seat 3B.
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More taxes perhaps....?
Might sound like a far fetched concept, but I wouldn't be surprised if after the fallout from this it forms part of the ticketing process, perhaps Etihad or the respective airline will have to pay the UAE authorities a fee which may or may not be passed on to the passenger that purchases non-Muslim passengers a liquor license. 
Goodness me, does this sound like another money making exercise by the local authorities to rip expats of even more....well yes, maybe I shouldn't have suggested it!
Goodness me, does this sound like another money making exercise by the local authorities to rip expats of even more....well yes, maybe I shouldn't have suggested it!
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A Gulf News archive item regarding liquor permits....
Non-muslims can apply for a licence to purchase and consume liquor.
Legal permit to buy spirits
Staff Report
The UAE, as a Muslim country, implements Sharia law which prohibits the purchase and consumption of alcohol.
However, the UAE authorities are aware that drinking alcohol is popular among non-Muslims, so for that reason the UAE sets rules for purchasing and drinking alcohol.
In hotels in all emirates except Sharjah - where the sale, consumption or possession of alcohol is prohibited - alcohol is offered to customers. Some embassies also offer alcohol for sale to their nationals.
Similarly, in all emirates except Sharjah, alcohol can be purchased from licensed retailers by non-Muslims who obtain a "liquor permit" from the emirate that issued the residence visa.
Liquor permits are issued by the police departments in all emirates to non-Muslims ages 21 and over who fulfil the minimum salary requirements.
The permit or licence, valid for a year, allows the holder to buy a certain amount of alcohol per month. Purchases from retailers that do not have official approval are illegal.
Only the husband in a married couple can apply for a licence, but his wife can use the licence if her details are included in the application form.
In Dubai, licences can be applied for at police headquarters or any branch of retailers MMI or A&E, which sell alcohol.
Bring along the completed application form - forms can be obtained from MMI or A&E branches - along with the Dh150 fee and the documents indicated in the table.
If a husband wants his wife to be able to use the licence, a passport-size photograph of her must also be included.
After about 10 days, subject to approval, the licence will be issued. The amount of alcohol it permits the holder to buy will be determined by Dubai Police according to factors such as salary level, age and family size.
If the residence visa expires before the licence does, the licence must be renewed by submitting it along with another completed application form and a photocopy of the new residence visa.
At most alcohol retailers in Dubai, a [/B]municipality tax[/B] is levied on each sale. {Fox3's footnote...on top of the cost of the permit and the other associated taxes!}
Requirements
Individuals, free zone employees, semi-government employees, self employed individuals, Green Book holders and Smart Card holders will need:
Passport copy
Residence visa copy
Tenancy contract copy (or NOC letter from leaseholder)
Labour contract copy (only required from Smart Card holders who have changed sponsorship)
Trade licence copy
One recent passport size photograph
Free zone authority stamp on application form
Salary Certificate
Key points to keep in mind
Punishments
Non-Muslims who possess a valid liquor permit can transport alcohol from one emirate to another emirate but the quantity should be for personal use only.
If caught transporting a large quantity, the alcohol and vehicle will be seized and the person or persons will face punishment as per law.
Consuming alcohol is not allowed in unlicensed public places. Drunkenness in public is also an offence.
Those caught drunk or drinking in public may be punished as per Sharia law which implements lashes, but the judge can replace lashing with other punishments such as a jail term, fine or deportation.
There is a zero tolerance policy towards drinking and driving.
Muslims
A strict regulation to remember is that Muslims are not allowed to buy or consume alcohol in the UAE, and people are banned from offering or selling alcohol to Muslims.
That means that all the rules that describe the processes allowing people to purchase and consume alcohol apply only to non-Muslims.
It is important that non-Muslims are considerate and ensure that their decision to buy or consume alcohol legally does not cause offence to Muslims.
Legal permit to buy spirits
Staff Report
The UAE, as a Muslim country, implements Sharia law which prohibits the purchase and consumption of alcohol.
However, the UAE authorities are aware that drinking alcohol is popular among non-Muslims, so for that reason the UAE sets rules for purchasing and drinking alcohol.
In hotels in all emirates except Sharjah - where the sale, consumption or possession of alcohol is prohibited - alcohol is offered to customers. Some embassies also offer alcohol for sale to their nationals.
Similarly, in all emirates except Sharjah, alcohol can be purchased from licensed retailers by non-Muslims who obtain a "liquor permit" from the emirate that issued the residence visa.
Liquor permits are issued by the police departments in all emirates to non-Muslims ages 21 and over who fulfil the minimum salary requirements.
The permit or licence, valid for a year, allows the holder to buy a certain amount of alcohol per month. Purchases from retailers that do not have official approval are illegal.
Only the husband in a married couple can apply for a licence, but his wife can use the licence if her details are included in the application form.
In Dubai, licences can be applied for at police headquarters or any branch of retailers MMI or A&E, which sell alcohol.
Bring along the completed application form - forms can be obtained from MMI or A&E branches - along with the Dh150 fee and the documents indicated in the table.
If a husband wants his wife to be able to use the licence, a passport-size photograph of her must also be included.
After about 10 days, subject to approval, the licence will be issued. The amount of alcohol it permits the holder to buy will be determined by Dubai Police according to factors such as salary level, age and family size.
If the residence visa expires before the licence does, the licence must be renewed by submitting it along with another completed application form and a photocopy of the new residence visa.
At most alcohol retailers in Dubai, a [/B]municipality tax[/B] is levied on each sale. {Fox3's footnote...on top of the cost of the permit and the other associated taxes!}
Requirements
Individuals, free zone employees, semi-government employees, self employed individuals, Green Book holders and Smart Card holders will need:
Passport copy
Residence visa copy
Tenancy contract copy (or NOC letter from leaseholder)
Labour contract copy (only required from Smart Card holders who have changed sponsorship)
Trade licence copy
One recent passport size photograph
Free zone authority stamp on application form
Salary Certificate
Key points to keep in mind
Punishments
Non-Muslims who possess a valid liquor permit can transport alcohol from one emirate to another emirate but the quantity should be for personal use only.
If caught transporting a large quantity, the alcohol and vehicle will be seized and the person or persons will face punishment as per law.
Consuming alcohol is not allowed in unlicensed public places. Drunkenness in public is also an offence.
Those caught drunk or drinking in public may be punished as per Sharia law which implements lashes, but the judge can replace lashing with other punishments such as a jail term, fine or deportation.
There is a zero tolerance policy towards drinking and driving.
Muslims
A strict regulation to remember is that Muslims are not allowed to buy or consume alcohol in the UAE, and people are banned from offering or selling alcohol to Muslims.
That means that all the rules that describe the processes allowing people to purchase and consume alcohol apply only to non-Muslims.
It is important that non-Muslims are considerate and ensure that their decision to buy or consume alcohol legally does not cause offence to Muslims.
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Unruled Passenger, is all it is about!!!
AirNoServicesAustralia, I doubt that the behave of this guys were civilized, so if you act like this, you could face the authorities and the law the in any place you are arriving, even if you are in transit. If you are discussing the law in UAE is a different subject, but as an unrulled passenger you can face charges in many countries all around the world. Get drunk onboard is not like get drunk in your preferred pub. And now they are blaming the Airline... what they want is money now!!!
BTW how camel taste???
AirNoServicesAustralia, I doubt that the behave of this guys were civilized, so if you act like this, you could face the authorities and the law the in any place you are arriving, even if you are in transit. If you are discussing the law in UAE is a different subject, but as an unrulled passenger you can face charges in many countries all around the world. Get drunk onboard is not like get drunk in your preferred pub. And now they are blaming the Airline... what they want is money now!!!
BTW how camel taste???
Last edited by StandAlone; 6th Jun 2007 at 08:51.
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Then Standalone charge them for their 'unruly' (I think that is the word you are looking for) behaviour, and don't cloud the issue and create a huge amount of bad publicity by charging them with drinking alcohol without a permit, or charging them with illicit drug taking. The rest of the world would charge you just as the UAE have done for the the behavioural issues but certainly not for drinking and taking of a sedative, and that is the issue here, and the worry for other non-muslims contemplating travelling with Etihad to Europe.
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And by the way all the disfunctional features were clearly communicated to the management prior to finalising the A-340 orders, but of course as one would have it they turned a deaf ear to it all.
Who pays now? The passenger, the crew? It goes to show that management responsibility goes beyond employing people, buying airplanes or paying a salary. But say that to an Arab.....!
Who pays now? The passenger, the crew? It goes to show that management responsibility goes beyond employing people, buying airplanes or paying a salary. But say that to an Arab.....!
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Taken from the DFAT (Aussie Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade) Website.
Drinking or possession of alcohol without a United Arab Emirates Ministry of Interior liquor permit is illegal and could result in arrest and imprisonment. Alcohol is served at bars in most major hotels (although not in the Emirate of Sharjah) but is intended only for guests of the hotel. Travellers who are not guests of the hotel, and who consume alcohol in the restaurants and bars, are required to have their own personal liquor licences.
So as I said as a guest of a hotel, you may drink at that establishment without a liquor license, so again it begs the question weren't these guys guests of Etihad and as such were allowed to drink with them?
So as I said as a guest of a hotel, you may drink at that establishment without a liquor license, so again it begs the question weren't these guys guests of Etihad and as such were allowed to drink with them?
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Rex is a Dog's name isnt it? You don't scarme by barking loud.
And I do my opnion where ever I want.
And Im not looking for any particular world, But did you have any unruled passenger onboard in your flights, that can make you even divert.
I had this experience more than once, and I'll never be simpathic with this kind of people that go fly and think they can do anything up there.
For me this is a pilot of view or go discuss on the AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL forum.
And I do my opnion where ever I want.
And Im not looking for any particular world, But did you have any unruled passenger onboard in your flights, that can make you even divert.
I had this experience more than once, and I'll never be simpathic with this kind of people that go fly and think they can do anything up there.
For me this is a pilot of view or go discuss on the AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL forum.
